Does the buffs outweigh the nerfs?

m-bison

#1

The only reason why I made a new thread for this is because bipson dicussion is so dead that it’d hardly matter either way. So, does the fact that you can cancel specials from his st. mp compensate for the fact that SK are -1 on block? I get that you can get a lot more mileage from CH now and that his new bnb works on everyone but doesn’t it feel like the damage buff is so inconsistent that it’d just be better if they improved upon more necessary things like, hell, if they made it so that you could go into a light PC from a cr. lk then that’d make bison less about SK pressure while still giving him a good damage boost.

How do you guys feel about this?


#2

I think Bison is an absolute beast in USF4. much much better than his 2012 counterpart. His cp. hp although not perfect is a significant improvement. Standing Mp is a good buff, makes good for wiff punishing, and lets him combo on anyone. Ex.scissors allows you to fight projectiles better, plus he got damage buff on all his scissors. Not to mention He now has comeback potential. Perfect example: I was fighting Rose the other day. She did an ex-sprial arrow, I punished with cr.lk xx mk scissors xx ex-red focus - ultra and won the round. I could not do that in 2012. The buffs coupled with Guile’s health nerf make that fight a little easier ( still heavily in Guile’s favor). TBH i don’t even feel the -1 on scissor kicks, and I rarely used his teleport to begin with. IMO Bison is top 15 in the game.

Here are the two changes I would like to see.

  1. Cr.lk can cancel into light psycho crusher. Lower damage on light psycho to 100 to match damage of scissors.

  2. Change Ultra 2 back to 55 frame charge. Lower startup to 14 frames. Lower damage to 400, make it so the move can’t be controlled anymore and will always land in front of the opponent. This rewards people who use it to make a read, and takes away the gimmick aspect of the move.


#3

Do all that to U2 except don’t Nerf the damage even further. No reason for that


#4

red buffs helps a ton and the fact that fadc combos aren’t 1 frame links anymore (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3zDPHbbTCg upload a video just to showcase how efficient it is) but i feel like they should’ve done something with l. pc, otherwise im satisfied


#5

The real question is: Why do so many Bison players use Rolento?


#6

That is a good question actually. Their play styles are a million miles apart. I’d have thought most bison players would be at home with vega although I hate vega and can’t play him a lick.


#7

I went from Vega to Bison, because I thought Bison was better. They both just seem kind of “meh”, to me but Vega actually has a comeback factor. Not a great one but, still has one that isn’t cr.lk into HUAAAA.

I tried Rolento but I’ve never liked the character. Weird going from a fast character with good wake up options to a slow ass one with 0 wakeup options.


#8

I still feel kind of robbed of how awesome far mp was going to be, back when it was 90 dmg, it justified the link but as it is I don’t use it in combos very often.

I agree though he is much better but only regarding what he was already capable of.


#9

People starting to rank him lower mid. I thought Bison was top 10, cheap, Cammy killer, so safe, nobody can punish, ridiculous pressure, empty devil’s reverse so op, etc etc etc?


#10

Properly fix his damage and he’d be higher. I’d agree with lower mid.

Comeback factor is still lacking imo. Three bars are hard to come by if you’re that far down on the life lead.

That said, he’s better in ultra than he’s ever been in the sf4 series, the trouble is that so many others are too.


#11

Bison now in that whatever tier.


#12

This is the best version of Bison to date. Hes top 15 easy.


#13

Quick question for you guys since I dont want to make another thread, does Bison still have any unblockables in ultra?


#14

All of bisons unblockables still work from AE as long as your opponent doesn’t delay wakeup.

Working on finding one if they do.


#15

I don’t find them useful unless I notice a pattern in the person’s play.


#16

Three M.Bison specialists in Dream Hack top 16, one even finished fourth overall. I think its pretty safe to say Bison is at least very tournament viable in ultra now. I’m not convinced he’s a top 5 character, but the gap between him and the top characters is clearly not nearly as wide as it once was, allowing player skill to more frequently decide matches.


#17

At this point I am convinced that all Bison needs is a better way to Ultra as a solution to the damage output problem. He doesn’t need more damage for his normal or special attacks.

If any buffs if would be thinks like making some of his stuff easier to link, or making c.hp a frame faster with one frame longer active time. But nothing other than that.

They should make his ultra connections easier to link, and make red focus not scale so bad on Ultra. Maybe make U2 faster on startup so it can punish better.

The extra damage should be in terms of his comeback ability. That’s the only thing he is really missing now in my book. Other than that, he is pretty damn solid now.


#18

Back in ST, Dictator’s super gave a juggle state. I’m positive they didn’t want that in sfiv because of the ultra follow up, but since his super is limited in uses i think it would have been fair at 320 and a float.

There aren’t many things that could assist in more ultra combo potential and buffing scaling after red focus seems out of the question. The best buff would have been improving j.mp so that you could reliably combo it into ultra and force the opponent to stay on the ground to fight your generally superior footsies game.

The other alternative to giving Bison higher comeback potential would be further improving his anti air defense so that he doesn’t have to chase a life lead as much. I know there are purists who think Bison should be weaker regarding defense and comeback potential but those people need to realise that this already a very different Bison and one the few iterations not considered top tier.


#19

Yeah, I like the idea of buffing j.mp to force ground combat, but what about making other ways to connect into Ultra, like making the current Ultra connections easier?

Like making the stun after lp PC greater to it is easier to connect the other, and same for skull diver, and EX devils reverse?

At lest point I am less of a “purist” myself. I just want comeback potential. That’s what he needs. It’s gotta be more than just run the life lead and lame out.

I think if you made his Ultra connections better, possibly buffed gel attack too, and decreased the start up on U2, he would have all he needs.

Like I said, beyond that the only thing he needs is to make some of his links with s.mp at least as easy as c.mk, (and the lk’s too) and make c.hp a bit faster.

He has plenty of weakness already, so buffing that stuff won’t really matter. It’s the comeback options that he needs. He needs versatility of comeback potential. hell attack currently, isn’t consistent enough to rely on in a match. If they know you can use it, they can more or less avoid it.


#20

Theorycrafting for creating more ultra combo ability or improving red focus:

  1. Decrease ultra start up. Very dangerous to do as Bison can only link 6 frame moves without CH. If u1 was 6f start up it would need a damage nerf to at least 400 (compared to Yang and Makoto).
  1. Launch properties on super, CH cl.hp or EX Scissors. I’ve already said putting the float back on super is fair, CH hp was inspired by deejay - this kind of ruins frame trap damage though. As for EX Scissors, the attack is already very good and having this almost negates the point of RFADC.

  2. Faster(combo viable) cl.hp for red focus. Honestly think its fair but difficult to implement mainly because of distance recognition. But if we had this we would have a stronger bnb, a more reliable anti air and a more damaging RFADC into ultra.

  3. Allow far mp to combo RFADC level 1. Very straight forward approach to making RFADC better, reasonably fair.

This is what i thought of in the past few days. Some of it is ridiculous, unfair but some of it is quite down to earth when you compare the cast.