Don't let them take a breathe! Ibuki's safe jump & vortex thread

ibuki

#1

Hi guys,

Compulsory ad, before you read:

Don’t even think about missing Izuna’s awesome Ibuki Player Guide, link here:


Rev 3 is coming soon and most of this stuff will be covered. Your best way to quickly learn ALL of Ibuki’s secrets just waits for you in this guide.
This is a collaborative thread designed to progress every day, never forget that!

End of the ad

I always thought we missed this exact thread. People need to know how many options they have to keep the pressure on.

So first of all, the aim of this thread is to be as exhaustive as possible. This especially means that I won’t be able to do this alon, so feel free to contribute to this thread, and to correct me if I said anything wrong.

You’ll find here a lot of ways to vortex your opponent and keep your pressure on. The main goal is to take a maximum profit from any untechable knockdown.

Before going to the concrete list, let me say that those are not my discoveries. I’m not god tier enough. Please make sure to give a round of applause to all the great Ibuki players listed below, in order of activity leve (first are imho the most active members here) who are continuously contributing to this awesome forum, and answering all of your questions:
Izuna aka "the teacher"
MingoDynasty aka "the safe guy"
NVNiko aka "I know all mixups, what-up"
eltrouble aka "the good advisor"
littlesushi, also known as Popopololz (did I mispelled it?)
And the others still discovering a lot of stuff: Devil Jin, Dime, Buktooth, Motempest, Dont_Jump, Saunic

Let’s go to what actually matters here

Notations

Spoiler

Notations:
j. - jump
sj. - super jump
LK/MK/HK - Low-medium-high Kick
LP/MP/HP - Low-medium-high Punch
cd. - Command dash (quarter circle forward - K)
st. - Standing
cr. - Crouching
b. - Back
f. - Forward

What you should have already read

Spoiler

First of all, please make sure you know MingoDynasty’s spreadsheet listing a whole lot of character specific stuff. Link here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqClL3kJPchYdFlDd0VhMmt4R0w3TVdJQ2hHX29GLUE#gid=4

Make sure you know as well the common unblockables (credits to MingoDynasty - again) especially against shotos:

"This is way too easy." Ibuki Unblockables

This first post is dedicated to Ibuki’s safe jumps

Introduction: Option selects to use

Spoiler

Introduction

Take some time to discover Ibuki’s option selects for these jumps. I won’t take time to explain you what is an OS here, so I’ll assume that you already know this term.
Useful OS for these safe-jumps:
[LIST]
[]A very common OS for safe-jumps is Neckbreaker (but it’s a bit harder to time if you go for a j.LK as the hitstun is very small). This will catch any backdash from your opponent.
[
]You can as well option-select Raida. This is useful against teleport-mashing Akumas, or EX Chicken Wing-mashing Fei Long, as Ibuki will Raida if he goes away, and neckbreaker if he goes behind you.
[]Another one, still nice for teleporters, is to option select a high jump so as to land just in front of your opponent recovering.
[
]And, a very particular OS is a throw. This is especially useful in case you’re fighting Viper, as she may do an EX Seismo cancel just to take advantage of the invincibility to make your normal whiff. Unfortunately, she’s not throw-invincible. Works nicely against Abel as it will catch a Marseille Roll
[]Also you can even be fancy and option-select Ultra 1 to catch Abel’s Marseille Roll, although this is just for style
[
]Same thing, you can OS U2 to catch backdash, but again this is just for style
[/LIST]
IMPORTANT NOTE! You should stop option-selecting a neckbreaker against Akuma if he has U2 charged. A good Akuma will cancel his teleport into U2 to catch your neckbreaker. just OS high jump in this case!
Time to train!

Safe jumps against 3frame DPs

Spoiler

**Safe jumps against 3 frame DPs (tested mainly on Ryu, confirmed them mostly on Yang for now)

Beware that a good Ryu will think about auto-correcting his DP to try to get you. Those are mainly safe-jumps against Reversals

  1. After a Neckbreaker:
    [LIST]
    []Use TEH UNBLOCKABLE (please refer to the unblockable thread, there are three ways of doing it)
    [
    ]Slight step forward - cr.LP - j.LK (Sako uses it all the time)
    [/LIST]
  2. After an EX Neckbreaker
    [LIST]
    []TEH UNBLOCKABLE all over again
    [
    ]LK cd - sj MK : crosses up in an ambiguous way, eats all shoryus, watch out that Ryu can punish you with an EX tatsu
    [/LIST]
  3. After MK Tsumuji
    [LIST]
    []slight step forward - f.LK - j.LK - does not crossup and is pretty easy to achieve
    [
    ]slight step forward - f.LK - j.MK - crosses up, timing is a bit different
    [/LIST]
  4. After EX Tsumuji
    [LIST]
    []st.LP - sj LK, VERY easy to do
    [
    ]st.LP - sj.MK, a bit harder but is a blockstring starter
    [/LIST]
  5. After Raida/EX Raida:

meh.

  1. After back throw:
    [LIST]
    [*]LK cd- sj.LK (or MK). This is a fake crossup when your opponent is cornered (ie. the MK will hit crossup, but Ibuki will land in front of your opponent)
    [/LIST]
  2. After forward throw:

meh.

Safe jumps on 5f DPs

Spoiler

Safe jumps on 5f DPs - credits to MingoDynasty again

(this is a pure copy/pasta from this post: http://forums.shoryuken.com/t/stop-being-a-freebuki-advanced-play-thread/116907page-9#post-5546779 )

1 - After a Neckbreaker
[LIST]
[]b+MP , j.HP
[/LIST]
2 - After EX Neckbreaker
[LIST]
[
]forward dash , wait 1-2 frames , j.HP (I could not find a way to help with the timing)
[/LIST]
3 - After MK Tsumuji
[LIST]
[]st.MP , j.HP (note: a perfectly timed st.MP will make your safe jump too early, you will need to wait an extra frame or two before jumping; also note that MK Tsumuji knockdown is different from HK Tsumuji knockdown)
[/LIST]
4 - After HK Tsumuji
[LIST]
[
]wait couple frames , j.MK (I could not find a fast normal to help with the timing; also the spacing makes many jumpin options whiff if incorrectly timed)
[/LIST]
5 - After EX Tsumuji
[LIST]
[*]cr.LP , j.HP (this is the easiest setup imo, next to neckbreaker)
[/LIST]
6 - After Raida

meh

7 - After U1 (Yoroitoshi)
[LIST]
[]forward dash , j.HP
[/LIST]
8 - After a Forward throw
[LIST]
[
]cr.LP , nj.MK (you can use nj.HP, but it may whiff on certain characters, I think)
[/LIST]
9 - After a Back throw
[LIST]
[]wait couple frames (<10) , SJ.HP; I could not find a fast normal to whiff to help with the timing
[
]walk forward couple frames (<10) , j.HP
[/LIST]
10 - After a Sweep
[LIST]
[*]throw , j.HP (actually I think this is the easiest setup, after you get used to it; remember to watch your spacing!)
[/LIST]

And also, make sure you check out these videos, showing some of the safe jumps listed above in action, courtesy of Niko9193

Safe jumps videos

Spoiler

[media=youtube]DmOYaCT2E2g[/media]

[media=youtube]VgJHd-8sfoo[/media]

Second post will deals with safe kunais!


Ibuki Q&A Thread: Ask simple questions here!
A problem against ken
#2

Ibuki’s Kunai vortex

So. You guys probably already know that a big part of Ibuki’s playstyle is to kunai the hell out of your opponent whenever he’s down.
Make sure this is NOT your only way of pressuring the opponent. Kunais are actually easy to avoid (autopilot backdash, more difficult focus backdash), all you have to do is to mix your game enough between kunais and safe jumps to make your opponent think before he applies the autopilot way.
Try to understand also how to make your Kunai crossup or not crossup. Most of these kunais are subject to crossup or not at will, you are your kunais’ boss and you should decide where they are headed.

Unless the opposite is said, all kunais here are LP kunais.

Kunais against 3frame DPs

Spoiler

**Safe kunais against 3frame DPs **(again, tested on Ryu/Yang, subject to autocorrect)

Those setups mostly works on all of the cast except those who can escape vortex easily (Dee Jay, Viper…), some timings may be a bit different, but they’ll at least make a reversal whiff

  1. After a neckbreaker
    [LIST]
    []st.LP sj.Kunai. A bit hard to make it crossup or not, but also very hard to detect!
    [
    ]Walk forward until Ibuki’s leg cross (ie. back leg is reaching front leg) and j.Kunai. Nice, surprising kunai.
    [/LIST]
  2. After EX neckbreaker:

meh.

  1. After MK Tsumuji:
    [LIST]
    []wait a couple of frames, jump - late kunai (kunai should be thrown when you’re just above your opponent’s head)
    [
    ]st.LP sj.kunai
    [*]LK cd - j.Kunai.
    [/LIST]
  2. After EX Tsumuji:

Warning: those only work if the last and only last kick is low. If you do more than one low, the spacing will be different and those setups will become broken.
[LIST]
[]sj. early kunai (if you’re too late, Shoryuken eats you!)
[/LIST]
5. After a forward throw:
[LIST]
[
]slight step backwards - j. kunai
[*]HK cd - j.kunai. This is the absolute mindfuck as if you are precise enough, you can crossup or not your kunai (not sure the crossup version is safe though). It’s VERY HARD to react to it, have fun! =)
[/LIST]
6. After a back throw:

meh.

Kunais on other characters

Spoiler

Kunais on other characters:

After MK Tsumuji:

sj.Kunai - absolute classic Kunai, can crossup or not easily, you should definitely know this timing.

After EX neckbreaker:

forward dash - sj.kunai.

Next post : Command dash mixups!


What to do on a knockdown opponent?
#3

Ibuki’s Command Dash mixups

We all use sometimes this HK command dash to get behind our opponent and surprise him. But how safe are we? Let’s go for some ideas here.

What you should know before

Spoiler

Beware that these mixups are generally not that safe, especially against characters having an invincible reversal (who said Ryu?). If your opponent mashes DP on wakeup, well, go for safe jumps/ Safe kunais.

You can be a bit smarter by adding an option select to the normal you use. I usually use either st.MK or st.MP according to the situation.
You can option-select it with a Neckbreaker (catches backdash), a Raida (catches Abel’s Marseille roll) to cover more situations!

Command dash mixups

Spoiler

After a neckbreaker:
[LIST]
[]LK cd - HK cd
[
]step forward -> HK command dash turns into 50/50 mix up where your command dash will cross up or not depending on how you timed it. This is a strong mix up because it cant be telegraphed.
[/LIST]
After MK Tsumuji:
[LIST]
[]st.HK - HK cd gives you the exact timing you need.
[
]LK cd - HK cd
[/LIST]
After a forward throw:
[LIST]
[]HK cd - overhead (f.MK)
[
]HK cd - HK cd to double cross your opponent and double mindfuck him
[/LIST]

Note: when playing a long set, try sometimes to replace HK cd by MK cd to stay in front of your opponent. Otherwise he’d recognize the fact that, for example, a whiffed st.HK will always go to a HK cd and block it easily

Next post: Empty jumps!


#4

Empty jumps and other gimmicks

So. Now you can:
[LIST]
[]Safe jump
[
]Safe kunai
[*]Mixup with command dash
[/LIST]
Why not adding other tools to your mindfucking armada?

Empty jumps

Spoiler

Empty jumps are sometimes a nice solution!

Why empty-jumping?
When playing a lengthy set against the same character, he’ll recognize your habits and punish them. So why not adding more things to recognize?
Empty-jumping is particularly efficient against Parry-mashing Goukens as they think a parry will beat any of your options (which is part true, an EX Parry just kills everything but a throw).

What are the followups for empty-jumping?
Well… It’s up to you.
You can just go for a throw so as to start your vortex.
You can go for a combo starting with cr.LK to break your opponent’s standing guard
Or you can be even fancier, I also like to empty jump to ultra 1 sometimes - catches a LOT of stuff. But it may not be that safe, this is just another surprising tool

How do you hide your intentions for empty-jumping?
Whiff something. Anything. Whiffing a normal usually makes your opponent thinking that you are going to do a safe jump, so they are prepared to block.
Whiffing a normal against a scrub makes him thinking that he can just mash DP and punish your attempt (poor him).
The main goal is to whiff a fast normal, jump, and land late enough to avoid giving a chance to your opponent to react. There are a whole lot of possibilities, let me just list the ones I use here:
Watch out: An empty jump is better done with a normal jump. You don’t want to super jump since you’ll have some recovery frames afterwards
Note: an empty jump is even better if you whiff the same normal as a safe jump.So the opponent will be waiting for a safe jump and you’ll end up hitting him down :slight_smile:

Some examples:

After a neckbreaker:
st.LK - jump
cr.LP - jump
st.MP - jump

After a Tsumuji:
st.LK - jump

Bansho kick

Spoiler

As Niko9193 explained us, the bansho kick (forward + HK) is useful as it will jump above your opponent and make Ibuki land behind him. Let’s say it’s just another tool to do mixups like HK command dash!

After a sweep or a forward throw, you can just do a bansho kick to jump above your opponent.

This works well against shotos, and small hitbox characters!

Have fun!


#5

I’m sorry but perhaps you should mention that a good Ryu/Shoto can and will auto-correct his DP as you try to use set-ups like that. Anyway I would appreciate it if you didn’t pre-empt the Rev.3 guide which is out in just a few more days.


#6

Can’t believe i haven’t even linked to your guide.
Mistake fixed, this is designed to be collaborative, I’d like to update the first posts as often as possible, taking into account any new stuff :slight_smile:


#7

Great idea! I’m willing to help out any way I can.

But I do have one problem:

You make it sound like Mingo discovered every last bit of tech with Ibuki. You know me, Izuna, Devil Jin, Dime, Poppololz, Buktooth, and Motempest contributed a lot as well.


#8

You forgot Dont_Jump.


#9

Feel free to contribute, I’ll keep this thread updated as often as possible!

Oh, I wasn’t implying that those are Mingo’s discoveries. I actually wanted to say that he posted those great summaries. Let me edit my first post =)

EDIT: done. Tell me if I forgot anybody.


#10

You might wanna take a look at these:

[media=youtube]DmOYaCT2E2g[/media]

[media=youtube]VgJHd-8sfoo[/media]

I might even make a video of os’s and mixups soon if I feel up to it…


#11

I hope he’s reading this from down there.


#12

??


#13

So I’m done with the preliminary stuff. I’ll work a little more to find new things, and stay tuned to read you guys’ ideas =)

Feel free to tell me if I did anything wrong here… We obviously don’t wanna lead people to bad information!


#14

Oh can I write the descriptions?

Edited out…


#15
  1. The safe jump after Raida against Yun doesn’t actually work. I withdrew my findings sometime later when I re-tested it and found out I was adding an extra frame somewhere.

  2. There’s a hitbox safe jump against 3f dp shotos after a back throw, making use of the hitbox of j.MK. If you don’t know what I mean by hitbox safe jump, watch NVNiko’s video where he uses j.MK all the time.

  3. Back throw , dash forward , j.HP is a safe jump against Boxer. Credits to jibbo.

  4. You might find better success with your empty jump setups if you make them look exactly the same as your safe jump setups, instead of whiffing different normals. Empty jump into f+MK is also pretty good. Iyo uses it alot.


#16

I do this in the corner somtimes.


#17

Are you sure about this?? I use it all the time without any problems


#18

Fairly sure.

Some math fighter:
We all know that Raida , backdash , j.HP is a perfect safe jump vs Yun, even if it relies on spacing (Yun must be in corner). Backdash is 28f, jumping is 47f, so the total setup is 75f.

On the other hand, MK cd is 22f, and super jumping is 50f (assuming you don’t empty super jump), for a total of 72f. This means there must be a 3f pause somewhere.

Going by my math fighter, whiffing a throw (25f) should theoretically setup for a perfect safe (super) jump vs Yun, but I dunno if I just never thought of it or if I ran into problems when I tried it.

I think what happens a lot with your setups is that you utilize hitbox safe jumps instead of standard safe jumps. By that I mean you try to land as far away from your opponent as possible to give yourself additional time to land and recover before their dp can hit you. If the setups you claim you always do are those setups seen in the video, then this is most likely the case.


#19

Random post from my cell, that will probably be edited a couple of times while I brainstorm.

-You can’t talk about safe jumps with out reliable OS’s. Maybe a list of reliable OS’s should be in this compendium.

-FA resets should definetly be here and I’m not talking about the standard juggles.

But what you must remember during resets is what your trying to accomplish. This could be meter build for the next round or just baiting a habit of your opponent that you picked up on. For example:

Things like hk command dash, st. mk sj into meaty kunai is very good for Ibuki’s broken meter building. Allowing you to build a healthy amount of meter for the next round.

Or if you going against a character like Rose or Makoto who get owned by os ultra you can hk command dash, juggle with st. Mk and cancel into mk command dash purposely not crossing them up to let them try and back dash or reversal so you can hit them with cr. Jab os ultra.

On Gief and Seth if you land a FA. Hk command dash, st. hp sjc lk crosses up and beats both lariet and Seth’s dp. Might also be possible with mk and hp but I haven’t tested it.

-Some body should post up the unblockable on Makoto as well as corner specific “hard blockables”

-After a sweep you can cross up small hit box characters if you dash and do bansho kick on there wake up, works very well on shotos. Somebody should come up with a list of who this works on (Mingo).

  • After learning character wake up times and animations. Taking a step forward after neckbreaker and doing a hk command dash turns into 50/50 mix up where your command dash will cross up or not depending on how you timed it. This is a strong mix up because it cant be telegraphed.

-Oh by the way you can still safe jump Ryu after neckbreaker just like in Super. As long as you know the spacing and the timing. There is no specific setup for it, you just have to know the timing. Then again we have unblockables so we really don’t need this setup anymore.

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk


#20

Good idea but I would not recommend the way you’re giving, since that’s the input for Kazegiri:
step toward: :f:
HK cd: :qcf::hk:
= Kazegiri

Instead I’d recommend learning the buffer window for specials, so that you instead do HK cd, hold down the last forward input for slightly longer, and then press :hk:, to get the same effect but without the risk of Kazegiri.