Doom snapback/incoming character mixups

dr-doom

#1

So, I’ve been thinking about how to mixup my opponents after i kill off a character or snap one out.

Typically I use spencer slant shot assist or haggar lariat combined with some sneaky airdashing to mixthem up left or right. Its worked pretty well for the most part and against double jump characters i typically just do jump m, call assist and then use my dash to mix them up left or right. I rarely go for grab even though doom can seriously benefit from corner air throws.

In my scene no one plays phoenix (thankfully) but i think the metagame is moving towards phoenix use in my area. I had some of my friends run phoenix teams (Even if they never played the character) and even with countless snap backs, I had a lot of problems taking advantage of the time when she’s in. I’m wondering if i should just do something like super jump air dash df and just try to bait an air fireball and punish with sphere flame. I see no other options that are effective. if she blocks the mixup or just floats up, its like “damn wasted 1 bar and still didn’t kill her”.

What do you guys do for phoenix and mixups in general off of snapbacks/dead characters?I love catching my opponents there just because its like a dead character in 7-10 seconds… want to make better use of that positional advantage.


#2

I like this idea for a thread.

I think the side switching properties of both foot dives along with an assist can be really deadly for the incoming opponent in the corner. At first I was trying to use cross under f+h on incoming opponent, but any character with a double jump/airdash can escape easily. Right now I still use the same setup I posted in the general thread.

J.m+Tron’s Gustaff Flame, aduf, f+h.
J.m forces them to land and guess which side you land on foot dive crosses up just as flame hits the opponent. The plus side is doom can follow up upon landing with a combo. On the other hand if they block the crossup, they can punish you with quick attacks, and you’re in the corner. Doesn’t happen often, but if people catch on to your stuff, its not as fail safe as say Berserker Slash xx Berserker Charge. Still working a safer version of this along with and more ambiguous non-crossup counterpart.


#3

I have a few setups I like to use.
[LIST]
[]A simple Hidden Missiles setup. It just sets them up to have to block, allowing me to do an overhead, low attack, or corner throw.
[
]A Hidden Missile bait setup, looks like the 1st setup, but I call in one too many missiles, making it look punishable - then I call Hulk’s armored Gamma Charge assist and combo off of it if they take the bait.
[]Hulk’s Gamma Charge assist + Footdive cross-over - it’s extremely unlikely that they hit Hulk out of his attack and Hulk’s attack knocks them OVER Doom and back into the corner for a lethal corner combo.
[/LIST]
A couple setups I’ve found for fighting Phoenix specifically - you have to choose what you think is appropriate for the situation.
[LIST]
[
]As she’s incoming - Sphere Flame, X-factor, Throw. Two strategies in one, but high risk since you lose your X-factor. If Phoenix presses a button for an air dash as she comes in, she gets killed by the Sphere Flame, but if she blocks, Sphere Flame hits her on the way up and scares her into not pressing buttons while you go for a throw before the Plasma comes back down. This method works pretty well as a way to go offensive against Dark Phoenix if you failed to kill stop her from coming out, but only if you can get the chance to throw Sphere Flame.
[]Team specific: Sphere Flame before Phoenix comes in so Sphere Flame misses on the way up, DHC into Devil Trigger, mix-up with a cross-under or Air Trick. DT works best since Dante has a teleport, but other characters with Buff Hypers would probably be able to benefit from this tactic. With Dante, you can perform this tactic even if Phoenix (or even Dark Phoenix) is already in (not incoming) from anywhere on screen because of his fast teleport
[
]Fight her like a boss after she’s transformed. Honestly, I feel like Doom can hold his ground better than almost anyone else in the cast against Dark Phoenix because of Photon Shot, Molecular Shield, Photon Array, Sphere Flame, and Doom Time. Basically, if you think you’re not going to be able to kill Phoenix in time, start saving up meter for this fight afterwards. If you have 5 meters, then you should be able to drain out almost all of her X-factor, even without the use of X-factor - and if she doesn’t block, there’s a good chance she’s going to teleport into a Photon Array - which is death if you haven’t used your X-factor yet.
[/LIST]


#4

gonna try the sphere flame x factor throw thing if i see a phoenix that has between 2-3.5 bars. Its gonna be a gamble though cuz if she techs then i’m shit out of luck.

I dont understand the hidden missile thing… how are you timing this? it would be great to see a video of this as I can’t really picture this.

With your foot dive cross over, are you timing your footdive to cross under your opponent or are you doing some block string, dashing up and then foot diving over your opponent while calling your assist?


#5

My usual set-up for this is j.:m:, j.:m:, j.:f::h: (puts them into blockstun until they hit the ground), ADDF w/:h: whiff, throw the moment they touch the ground. Landing immediately gets rid of the rest of the blockstun from Footdive, so this is the easiest way to time the throw. If you’re worried she will tech, mash :f::h: after she touches the ground. If she techs it, there’s a very good chance that Dr. Doom will be close enough to immediately throw again. Even if Phoenix continues mashing too, eventually you’ll be far enough away to not throw and she’s going to get kicked in the face by Doom’s 8 frame Hard Kick ( :f::h:) when she accidentally does her 11 frame s.:h:.

To be completely honest, I usually use this set-up against Dark Phoenix. The way my team set-up, I don’t need to risk this against regular Phoenix. Hulk is good at killing Phoenix before she gets enough meter for DP, Dante is good at causing Phoenix to transfrom and then killing Dark Phoenix before she can tag out, and Doom can stand his ground in a fight against Dark Phoenix.

I’m sorry, I didn’t specify that the Hidden Missile setup isn’t a snapback setup, it’s a mix-up against an incoming character after killing a character. I launch a couple missiles based on how much time I have - sometimes only one missile. I assume it doesn’t make sense to you because you don’t have time to do it after a snapback. If that’s not the case, let me know and I’ll explain it more.

Either works really. Even if you call Hulk, super jump, and immediately do Footdive over the opponent, Hulk’s attack still usually knocks them back over Dr. Doom for a corner combo.


#6

I’ve been using this mixup with Doom and Haggar. Very similar to the Timothy stuff but different (better?).
Greet them with j.m,j.m, with a Haggar call . If they push block haggar keeps them while you get back in.

They must block or get hit by Haggar into a combo.

As they are about to land you tridash in and

  1. j.L overhead
  2. c.L
  3. f.H (throw or hard kick ) both lead to combo.

The throw option relies on the fact that landing ends any block stun.

c.L beats up/back. j.L beats crouch block. Throw beats button pushing (everything should but still) and the random hark kick is fast to beat almost everything. If they block any of the attacks backdash cancel for distance and setup another approach.

I’ve tested and confirmed a well time j.m to be inescapable by dash, throw, and one guy I play claims you can’t super on entry it (I haven’t been supered except by sent).

Sent Only: Bait the hard drive, jump and block it, mash pushblock and throw him at the end of it into a death combo.

Currently working out the options for Jam Session. I request anyone who has done this please post it and save me time!


#7

Phoenix and Morrigan should also be capable of doing a super on entry.


#8

I was messing around with this early in my haggar/doom research, i like a lot, i was actually using tri dash m into cr l or tri dash m,m (so that one whiffs) into crouching l. Gonna mess around with the tri dash l option though. seems effective. If you happen to use spencer slant shot, u can always call assist and dash forward when they come in. it is pretty ambiguous. unfotunately, i find it hard to confirm and follow up.

Was hoping there would be another option that would just confuse them with how to block haggar (ie make them guess left or right on how lariat will hit upon entry) but, meh. idk guess it just takes some labtime. I dont really know what makes the lariat hit left or right on entry – sometimes when i dash forward while calling assists, my opponent can block by just holding back, but other times the lariat does cross up. not sure what the difference in my inputs are to make the ambiguity.

Gonna make a video today showing the options you listed as well as the ones i’m mentioning.