DP Focus cancel RELEASE is still safe


#1

I don’t mean FADC, I mean like where they let the Focus hit THEN dash.

So you have to do something invincible or really fast in order to beat out the FA, normals get frame trapped and counterhit there for the crumple. At best, some 3f normals (if done perfect reversal timing) trade. A lot of characters don’t have a good way to punish this AFAIK. Like with some characters, the only way to beat this out is to guess and do an invincible move or raw Ultra, but then if they dashed forward, you completely miss your punish opportunity because you guessed that they would focus hold/release instead of straight dash out, and then get punished yourself. Off the top of my head, Rose needs to guess if Ken is going to focus hold/release or just dash out of Fierce DP unless her reactions are super-good. The fact that you can backdash to evade many characters’ punishes (such as trying to DP punish another shoto’s DP Focus cancel) further complicates this.

For a lot of matchups, they turned SRK focus attack cancel into a mixup/guessing game, not an unsafe action. Basically, as long as you’re still not SRKing FADCing your wakeup every time, you still have them guessing whenever they knock you down while you have meter. They should have just made it so you can’t focus cancel DPs at all on block, like Oni used to be.

Any insight on this issue?


#2

Its not exactly safe. I don’t think. You can check the frame data in between tho by doing a non invincible reversal in between the DP and the lvl1 focus

Gen’s HP hands for example are 3 frames. MP hands are 4 frames. LP hands are 5 frames.

Check if any of those beat the lvl1 release and you know your window.


#3

Just another one of the billion mind-boggingly dumb design decisions in USFIV.

Ryu DP EXFA Dash is safe against 3f reversals. Other’s like Sagat’s are punishable no matter what he does if you have the reactions and the appropriate character.

It’s a mixup now in many situations. You have to be very careful with your confirms because even pressing stand tech can get you crumpled if the opponent holds EX Focus longer than you expect. If you expect a forward dash and they go backwards you can also get punished.


#4

Downside to doing this is if it hits you leave alot of damage on the ground, might as well have done a dp fadc backwards if you would release it…unless you want the off chance to get a lvl counterhit crumple.


#5

Right now you pretty much have 4 options for trying to make a reversal safe
FADC Forward, FADC Backwards, FA Release, FA Hold Backdash. The idea is that there are moves that will punish an FADC forward but not backwards and vice versa; hence you can make them guess between the two if they don’t have a good option select. Then you have the Release which will often beat that but loses to a reversal. Then you have the delayed which will beat some moves that would normally cover all three earlier options but loses to a bunch that would beat all other three (such as being able to escape a Flash Kick which would normally beat every other option, now losing to any slower long reaching normal)


#6

doesn’t dp fadc a tool shotos should have ? while other char have targets, specials pokes traps that moves forward and create pressure by themselves, long reaching normals with cancels that reach, and stuff like that ?
It’s not like a whiffed shoto Dp isn’t close to the easiest thing to punish in this game. Unlike other Dp that goes away on whiff making it harder to punish hard.
Just some thoughts, but this wasn’t an issue before out of nowhere this unsafe Fadc was put on the table some month ago, no ?


#7

from my tests theres a 4 frame gap at minimum.


#8

Other chars have target combos?
Ken - sMP ~ sHP
Evil Ryu - sMP ~ sHP
Oni - bMP ~ sHP

Pokes that move forward and create pressure?
Ken F+MKF, F+HK
Ryu F+HP
Oni F+MK
Akuma Far HK
Evil Ryu F+MK, Amazing focus attack

Long reach normals that can be canceled?
Ken crMK
Ryu crMK, farMP
Oni crMK, sHP, sMP
Evil Ryu crMK, far MP
Akuma crMK, far HP

Specials that can be used for pressure?
Ken - crMK - fireball
Ryu - crMK - fireball
Oni - crMK - fireball, bMP - LK Slash
Evil Ryu - crMK - Fireball, sMP - MK Axe Kick
Akuma - crMK fireball, far HP - fireball, Air fireball

Come on man, there are probably better arguments out there than one so easily refuted.


#9

safe reversal FADC on block has always been stupid.


#10

If your going to risk a focus attack cancel then do red focus for Ken. If the first hit hp dp connects and u ex red focus attack, u get ultra, if it’s blocked u dash forward at +1 or +2


#11

I don’t think they wanted to make it really unsafe.

I think they just wanted to make it not a really good idea.


#12

Just throw them. Grabs them out of the focus. Even if you grab to late they still have to tech. Also you cant get counterhit when using throw.

If they fadc backwards you are safe right?


#13

It’s a mixup. If they hold the EX FA for a bit and you attempt to grab you will get crumpled.


#14

True. Capcom probably did not intend DP fadc forward to be a free 300dmg combo punish or anything. Just there to stop SRK fadc as a tool for continuing pressure. If you try to jab afterwards you will get counter hit for sure.


#15

TBQH being able to Focus Attack on block is the main problem. It’s just that + on block DP FADC has always been the nasiest symptom of the problem. Even if you have to spend meter for it, being able to turn being knocked down into a guaranteed reversal of momentum and a mixup for you was NOT okay. By knocking a shoto down when he has two bars, you’re basically doing him a favor. (Yes I know you can dodge/get out of range, but literally any attempt to bait DP FADC would just let them out of pressure if not successfully baited.) KOF games often had similar dash-cancel mechanics, but they never let you do it on block because of the problems that come with it, they were used strictly to extend combos. People used to complain that Oni can’t FADC his SRK on block, and I was always like “Good, every shoto should be like that.”


#16

DP FADC has never been + on block.


#17

Technically not true. Fei was +1 before 2012

/semantics


#18

Are you guys sure about that? I have never seen someone get counterhit out of crouch light after FADCing out of a DP before, it always behaved like they had frame advantage and could pressure off of it. Was it even?


#19

No, it was -1 i think. However since the guy doing the DP FADC has the reactionary advantage it felt like they were +


#20

Actually being negative sometimes wasn’t a bad thing. Because if you both DPed again your would come out 2nd and beat his.