DR.B's S-GROOVE Thread Vol.81


#1

Since I have had several threads and talk of an S-Groove thread popped back up I decided to make another !!! Feel free to post your criticism of S-Groove…and Thoughts/Ideas. I will be glad to answer any questions anyone has from the perspective of a tourney player’s experience against damn near ALL of the other Top Players…Peace.

Here is a link to the old S-GROOVE THREAD/ Data Base http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=10607


#2

i was gonna start another thread, but you beat me to it dr. B! i randomly have theory fighter about S-groove in my head, and here are some of my thoughts on S-groove:

-two characters that i really like in S-groove are cammy and chun. since they both have footsie/whiff punishing games, they are weak to slides and low hitting moves. but having the dodge helps because if a slide comes, a dodge fierce into special (drill for cammy, fireball for chun) is a great way to punish. it just adds another layer to their super strong ground game. plus chun having run and low jump is huge, even if she doesn’t have access to supers as much (or RC, like in N-groove)

-i think dodges should be used sparingly. the threat of a dodge is almost as good as actually using it. i’ve been guilty of using a predictable dodge and getting thrown a lot when i would play S-groove in casual play. using a dodge defensively when they are close is also a bad idea.

-since a general strategy against S-groovers is to throw them when you think they will dodge, having a character with a longer punch throw range is nice. raiden and maki really stand out to me. maki’s throw range isn’t as long as raiden’s, but she does have better setups afterwards. also, her being able to spring out of the corner is really nice as well. so baiting opponents to walk up and throw you could actually work out fairly well…

-staying out of the corner is HUGE unless your opponent has a way to get out (like mai, maki, shotos, etc). if your character doesn’t have an invincible DP, then being stuck in the corner is even worse.

a couple of questions…

  1. how should S-groovers deal with RC electricity on wakeup? is it best to just eat the chip damage or try some dodge tactic?

  2. in general, how should S-groove play against P-groove? keeping it random/mixing things up is the obvious answer, but is there anything else?

peace


#3

Maybe this has been posted already, but could you make a tier list for dodge attacks?


#4

Cammy Punch Dodge > Everyone else


#5

I would like to know your “Dr. B” opinion on Terry, Todo, Rolento. not as a team but those 3 in general cause S-Todo is just a lot of laughs with infinite meter.


#6

Geese is definitely low tier punch ac lol, Sim has the farthest ranged knockdown iirc. I could probably have named the best ones a year ago, been to long since I played.

One thing I used to do with S-groove was time dodge into dodge attack vs jump ins. When timed right they can’t throw you, they will just get popped by the attack. Not good vs low jumps though. Yamazaki and Maki can actually AA grab super in S-groove (they are in the air still when the flash happens).

Kara dodge punch into spd with gief is good.

S-Rolento can’t deal real damage, but is annoying as hell.

Don’t sleep on S-Raiden.


#7

s-hibiki is awesome. she gets a free charge of meter whenever her super hits. her dodge cancel punch kara into slash is also good (actually it’s like the ghetto version of her rc slash…lol)


#8

s groove iori is pretty good as well


#9

i’ve always kind of wondered about this. can’t the other opponent just empty jump into DP to counter this strategy? i guess that is assuming they have a DP, but what about empty jump RC, does that also work (eg sakura jumps in, lands, and immediately does RC hurricane kick to go through the dodge cancel attack)? for certain characters who have iffy situational anti-airs (eg yamazaki) or need RC to AA properly (eg benimaru), this is a great tool to have. S-yama especially, dodge cancel punch xx sand kick xx arm whip is a great string.

but i also think it would be a huge problem if the S-groove character HAS a good AA but doesn’t use it because they’re doing the dodge cancel attack tactic instead. for example, if somebody jumps in and i’m S-cammy, i would much rather pull out a cannon spike against their jump in than do dodge fierce into a block string. or S-sakura just doing low fierce instead of dodge cancelled fierce xx mp fireball. or especially S-bison since his crouching and standing fierces are pretty beastly AA’s.

it sounds like common sense, but i have DEFINITELY seen a lot of top S-groove players rely on dodge cancel attacks when they have a perfectly good set of AA options available to them.

the dodge into grab super sounds interesting though, i guess it woud work fine with raiden as well…

peace


#10

well, for me, it all depends on the groove/meter of my opponent. e.g. I do less regular AA against k/p groovers but do more airthrows if I am using cammy, chun, etc or do dodge cancels more with other characters. against any other groove with no meter, I just AA them. if it’s a-groove with meter, then I usually would just block or dodge without cancels to see if there is any tendency of empty jump activate. against raged k-groove, I would go for airthrow all the time…lol if my character cannot airthrow, then just a safe AA so I don’t get punish hard after they jd.


#11

Good to see the S-groove thread back. :cool:

Considering all that was discussed in the previous main thread, I would really like to not regurgitate old topics that have been discussed to death as there already is a wealth of information available. Maybe Doc B could make a link in the first post directing people to the old thread. Here’s the link:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=10607

On Todo, I know a bit about him since he’s on my main team. His biggest weakness is a lack of a counter or DP. His dodge linking attack is weak as well, since it only hits high and has little range. As a result, you have to have a lot of solid defensive skills in order to survive. It’s challenging, but if you can get around this flaw he can be very effective, especially when he has meter. I like to think of him as the SNK version of Guile, although the 2 are different in many ways.

I can speak some about S-Geese as well, since he’s my r2. Mainly, his dodge linking punch is fine. Much has already been discussed about it toward the end of the previous S-Groove thread. Another thing I’ve discovered about it is that he’s one of the few characters to have a dodge linking attack that has frame advantage on block (Bison, Cammy, and Dan being others). In my opinion, this allows you to use the dodge in a more offensive manner. When the dodge linker counter-hits, Geese’s crouching mk gives a guaranteed 2-hit combo.

This brings me to one of my theoretical s-groove techniques, Offensive Dodging. The theory is that your opponent won’t be able to see the dodge on reaction if it is interrupted by a dodge attack. This is supported by the fact that the dodge attack’s timing can be changed during its window within the dodge. The main purpose here is to use it as a feint, to safely bait people who try to counter your dodge. This allows more dodging at close ranges and further increases offensive potential (obviously, it should be properly set up and should not be abused). Also, it’s a great way to back up CFs, which I’ll discuss later.

Regarding dodging, I believe that the quality of a character’s dodge attacks is only one side of their overall ability in S. So bad dodge attacks do not necessarily make a bad character. This is only my opinion though…

Note: You’ll see me using my own terminology from time to time. The reason I do this is because none currently exists for certain s-groove techniques. Also, much of this I copy directly from my notes. Let me know if anything’s not clear.


#12

i would like to be the first person to bump this thread lol

BUMP


#13

S-Ryu: A really dangerous character when in RED life. Lvl 1 shinkuu hado comboes from a lot of things, and every block string does like 40% of the guard bar. Also, running, dodge and low jump helps him against toptier matches (like sagat)…


#14

i got OCV’d like all hell playing against some S groove ryu at FFA

nice to see a thread for this offbeat yet surprising little groove


#15

Yezzir !!!

Thanks for all the activity in the thread !!! I have been away on some crazy music and club shit…I will post all the answers to the questions I was asked later tonight or in the morning…Shout out to EVERYONE who has stopped by. -DR.B


#16

where’s volume 1-80?


#17

Ok a few things… Thanks again for everyone’s input on the most slept on groove.

  1. The answer for “CMX’s” question…I think Terry,Todo,Rolento is a very wild card team…it’s abusable aspect when it comes to level 1’s is best ONLY for Todo…to create useful situations with Terry and Rolento are hard. BUT you have the element of surprise with the mix up game and charge fakes,etc. My advice is throw in a TOP TIER character into that mix and you will see better results.

  2. Popoblo asked: "How should S-groovers deal with RC electricity on wakeup? is it best to just eat the chip damage or try some dodge tactic?

Wake up grab is the best option…i usually do delayed get up grab…or to throw them off regular wake up grab. Most RC’ers are so predictable. I also try and keep meter charged for Alpha Counter…so if I wake up I can just AC…

Q: In general, how should S-groove play against P-groove? keeping it random/mixing things up is the obvious answer, but is there anything else?

A: I usually just mix things up real tight…and throw alot of projectile supers…heck if they wanna parry that I will run up and throw out more shit for them on top of that like combo strings…etc. ALSO just grab them alot…P groove doesnt have too much to offer but a solid defense…but beware of offensive P groovers because thats a whole different fighting style…when I face that type of P it’s just a battle of who has better fighting,combos,patience.

My Tier List for S Groove Dodge Attacks are:

1.Cammy
2.Bison
3.Ryu
4.Blanka
5.Chun

My S Groove TOP TIER list is:

1.Bison
2.Cammy
3.Sagat
4.Ryu
5.Blanka

“JJJ” has real good advice on S-Groove so I would listen to him “Jaguardine”,“RagingStormX” as well.

I hope this has helped…any other questions just ask. I have ALOT of Nor Cal tourney experience to share with everyone.

Evo 2008 - DR.B vs. Justin Wong ( Winner’s Bracket )
[media=vimeo]1597891[/media]


#18

what would you suggest for slower paced grooves like C-groove to fight against s-groove?
i play with a c groove blanka and sagat, and whenever i play against a good s groove i have no idea what to do

what are some of s grooves weaknesses?

i feel understanding its limitations would help me fight both with it and against it

thanks doc


#19

RESPECT!

wheres part 2?


#20

Jump in dp would work, but is risky and RC loses to dodge then grab. But yes you are 100% correct, always AA if you can, it’s more for characters with weak AA options.