Dual-stick / Twin Stick Guide and Work Log


#1

Hello and welcome to my Dual-Stick/ Twin Stick Guide

Why both names, well generally both names are used, so using both allows this thread to be found by search engines faster. I will be using the 2 terms interchangeably.

Why make a Dual-Stick?
Certain games are more intuitive with a Dual-Stick set up, this would include but not limited to Robotron 2040, Smash TV, Assault, Battle Tank and the Virtual-On series.

Most players I know make twin-sticks for virtual on so I will start there.
Cyber Troopers Virtual-On Oratorio Tangram on XBLA uses 1 of 3 preset controller settings
Standard type, Twin Stick Type A and Twin Stick Type B.

Control Types
Standard type are similar controls to Frist person shooters
Left Analog for movement, Right for turning

Twin Stick Type A still uses the left and right analog but are set closer to the arcades as left analog controls the left level and right analog controls the right level

Twin Stick Type B has the option of using the D-pad and the A,B,X and Y buttons instead of analog.

Type B controls
As Type B is easier to wire for I go into more detail for Type B

D-Pad Directions directly apply to the left level directions
Right Level goes as follows:

Up - Y
Down - A
Left - X
Right - B

LB and RB are your left and right Turbos (as in turbo rockets)
LT and RT are your Left and Weapons (they are different from left and right, you need both)
Select/ back: Special attack (used on certain mecha)

How I made my own Twin Stick.

Materials

  1. Hrap 1,2,3 or EX case (or make your own custom case)
    2 Dual trigger joysticks. You can find the joysticks I used here Import Flight Stick
    You can also use Sanwa JFJ, SeimtisuLSX-57-01, source 2 joysticks from a Saturn or Dreamcast Twin Stick and even NES Quick Shot Joysticks.
  2. Custom Top Panel (Blk Lighting Custom for me, but a Art Hobies custom works as well.)
  3. Xbox 360 Common ground PCB (my case a Mad Catz Fight Pad PCB)
  4. 24mm push buttons
    wire, disconnects, terminal strips
    Optional Art Hobies Hrap top Loaders
    Optional 2nd PCB for Dual-Mods
    You also have to hack the analog triggers if your PCB requires it, we will need the RT and LT.

Why a Hrap case?
The Hrap case is large enough to accommodate everything, with enough depth. And the sturdyness and weight helps alot too. Unlike most arcade sticks, you would want a heavy Twin-Stick.
Someone else did a similar mod 2 years before I did
http://arcadestickdiy.sknzw.com/rapts/

Go ahead and guy everything out including the buttons, JLF and the PCB.
For this project you will need a common ground PCB.

Check these threads for more info on pad hacking and Dual-Mods
How to Padhack an 08/09 MadCatz 4716 Common Ground X360 Pad
The Padhacking Thread
Dual Modding 101

Can I use a Xbox 360 TE PCB?
Yes

What the Panel layout should look like?

Similar to the image below, keep in mind what kind of mount plate you are using as this effects the mount holes.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1033/virtualonlayout.jpg

You can leave or cut out the guide area, your choice, I chosen to take out the guide area.
The button in the middle is Select/Back used for Special Attack.


The "Stickless Arcade Stick" Thread
ZD Arcade Control Encoder And ZD ReMatch (PS3/PS2/PC) (The most cost efficient PCBs to date!)
Help! i needto see inside the quickshot!
Dual Modding an HRAP3
Project: LLC Metal Replacement Panels Round 9 Stainless Steel
Check Out My New Arcade Stick! (No Image Quoting)
Can someone suggest an HRAP clone to build a Sega Twin Stick with?
Twin Stick & Twin Kaimana Question Please Help
#2

What sticks did you use?

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7268/dscf1327.jpg

The same sticks as found on Paradise Arcade the Import Flight Stick
Although I got my sticks before I realize Paradise Arcade carries them.
The sticks appear to be LS-40 clones.

These are the ones I got off eBay. The Micro-switches in the of the joystick I had was not great so I replace them with Sanwa MS-0-2 Switches that are found in the JLW.
The Import Flight Stick,and Sega Twin Stick joysticks (possible LS-40s or 50s) have there trigger wiring done as common ground hence why I put an enphisis on common ground.

Next the Wiring. I found it easier to treat the A,B,X and Y positions on the PCB as wires to a 2nd stick than 4 individual buttons.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/457/dsc00740q.jpg

Yes I dual-mod this project, I am also planing to get Virtual-On Marz, and I want to get this controller playable for Assault on my Nacmo Museum PS1 disk (it uses the same style controls in the arcade)
Also Xbox 360 PCBs have a nasty habbit of treating the triggers as each a part of a Z Axis instead of allowing it to be 2 analog buttons. Cthulhu or my case Chimp has no Analog buttons


#3

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2041/dscf1368k.jpg

Here is a prototype version of my stick with a all Acrylic top, I later decide to switch to a metal panel as metal was a tougher material. The Acrylic was prone to bending and possible cracking.

Here is the underside of my new metal panel. Please note to install a dual-trigger stick, the stick must be disassemble first.

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8141/dsc00742u.jpg

Removing everything from the main base except the mounting place.
Screw the mounting plate in place, then you can feel free to reassemble your stick.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6791/dscf1324.jpg

This is a completely disassemble stick, but you should get the picture.

You might want to wait on the stick handle replacement till you have your top art and top plexy in place.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6770/dsc00751h.jpg

I went ahead and cut a 24mm hole in the back for a Neurtik USB pass-though rather than using the stock USB cable. That red button is a on/off switch for lights that are under the Start, Select and Home buttons.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4512/dsc00744mx.jpg

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/4301/dsc00743t.jpg

As you can see, I do not fair well trying to photograph lit buttons.

Here is the finished stick.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6820/dsc00753l.jpg

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6770/dsc00751h.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6103/dsc00758k.jpg

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/567/dsc00759w.jpg

I want to thank rtdzing, blk lighting and many others for there help with this project


#4

What other systems can I make this controller for
Xbox 360 Virtual-On Oratorio Tangram (XBLA), Virtual-On Force
PS3 (with backwards compatibilty to PS2) See PS2
PS2: Virtual-On Marz, Cyber Troopers Virtual-On (Sega Ages release)
Dreamcast: Virtual-On Oratorio Tangram
Sega Saturn: Cyber Troopers Virtual-On
PC: Cyber Troopers Virtual-On

of course Original Arcade and Emulators can play all the above

Can I mod my Sega Saturn or Sega Dreamcast Twin-Sticks to work on Xbox 360?
Yes, it requires a PCB hack, you can try to dual-mod, project box or in the case of the Saturn stick build an adapter.

For the 2 original Sega sticks, there is not alot of internal room, so I suggest a project box for this mod.

Can I use a Cthulhu/Dual Strike for Sega Saturn, Dreamcast and PS2 support.
For the Sega Saturn and PS2 yes, not the Dreamcast as the Dreamcast version of the Twin-Sticks uses completely different mapping.
A work around for dreamcast support is wire a Cthulhu for Saturn and use a Total Control 3 Saturn to Dreamcast Adapter and set the adapter to Twin Stick mode.

You could try to get an original Dreamcast twin stick PCB, but then you have the rest of the twin stick as well.

Can I mount the Sega Saturn or Sega Dreamcast trigger sticks in a diffrent case.
Yes the Sega trigger sticks are seimitsu so you can use a S or MS plate to mount the sticks in a Hrap or custom case.

Didn’t Hori made Twin-Sticks for the Xbox 360?
Yes they did, 2 different models. Both with Custom Joysticks similar to the Sega Flight stick Seimitsu joysticks.
Both are never released outside of Japan and both are made in extremely limited numbers. The Price tag is quite high, near $400.
The second stick was released for the Xbox Release of Virtual-On Force is available from play asia.


#5

Reserved for any Q and A.


#6

That’s cool sauce. I think I would have gone all out and hacked it for analog movement using a pair of LS-64s. That’d be expensive, though. But then you could probably play some shooters on the rock-em-sock-em robot stick.


#7

that’s pretty sick!
any chance we can see this in action?


#8

You can hack the analog to connect to digital sticks, it is similar to trigger hacking but more complex.
Also because of the triggers being on the sticks, you want non-rotating shafts.
Only company I seen make analog dual-trigger sticks is Happ.

I don’t have the means to record video at the moment or I would posted this to my you tube account.


#9

You just tease ! :frowning:


#10

I would if I could


#11

nice project my friend


#12

Thanks


#13

I know i had said it was amazing on the check out my arcade stick thread but i just had to come in here and say it again. This is truly an amazing project my man. I am glad i could help you out with it. This almost made me buy the last two sticks that paradise arcade had but right now no funds for fun hahaha


#14

It could be worst. You could be going for Sanwa JFJs ($90) or a Happ Analog dual-Trigger stick ($120 and up) Prices are per joystick.

No wonder the official Hori Hrap Twin Stick is $400

What Paradise offers is the cheapest I can find.


#15

oh trust me i know i have looked around and saw the crazy prices. I am trying to talk to the fiancee and see if i can fit these in the budget before they sell hahaha


#16

Do you even play Virtual-On?

LOL

Oh, PS, moving images to different image account, so the images will be down for a bit, as I fix things


#17

yea i was playing on it a couple months ago for the first time and thought it was pretty awesome but to be honest i really wanted to make one so i can play robotron with it. It is one of my favorite old school classics and i have always wanted to use a dual stick to play it


#18

Just for other peoples benefit, Games like Robotron 2048 and Smash TV you can get away with 2 regular joysticks
Having trigger sticks helps more with Virtual-On series, Mech Warrior, Namco’s Assault and Atari’s Battlezone

I am sure theirs more but I can’t remember them all.

There is also a few Shmups that use 2 twin sticks, like Stardust HD (uses analog sticks on the PS3 pad)


#19

Don’t forget Namco’s Cyber Sled. That was a pretty fun dual trigger stick game too. Like Virtual On, but with less personality.


#20

Oh yeah Cyber sled, played it once in the arcades. I didn’t there there was a PS1 release till I looked it up on Wikipedia.