Duck and Cover! Guard Position Compendium and Discussion Thread

hakan

#1

Guard Position or Hakan’s Coward Crouch can be used to punish moves in some situations and it can dodge a lot of moves as well and this is a comprehensive list of every special it dodges

Note: Ultras and Supers listed mean that I Coward Crouched after the flash
I also will not list moves that will only hit airborne opponents or moves that cannot hit crouching opponents to begin with (besides Tatsus)

Coward Crouch Attributes:

Low hitting attacks will win against a Coward Crouch
Throws will win against a Coward Crouch
Attacks that hit the ground will win against Coward Crouch
Coward Crouch can be canceled if you set your stick back to neutral position

Hitbox Data: Courtesy of Nos99

Make sure if you are punishing a move with a coward crouch make sure you return your stick to neutral so they can’t hit you while you’re recovering.

UPDATED: 6/16/10-- Added Overheads, Specials I forgot to test, the things Metroxylon wanted tested, now in alphabetical order, and the attributes above.

Abel

Wheel Kicks
Change of Direction All Hits except low follow ups
Note: If your close enough the first hit will make Abel go through you
U1

Adon

Jaguar Tooth
Jaguar Kick
Rising Jaguar
U2
U1
Overhead (f.MP)

Akuma(Gouki)

Shoryukens
Tatsus
Ground Hadokens Red or Normal
Air Hadokens ( At Max Range)
U2 (Shin Roflcopter)
Demon Flip Dive Kick
Demon Flip Punch
Demon Flip Grab
Overhead (f.MP)

Balrog (Boxer)

Dash Straight
Dash Upper
Dash Low Smash
TAP
Headbutt
U1 (up close only goes right through you)

Blanka

Balls
Rainbow Balls
Up Balls
Overhead (f.MP)

C. Viper

Thunder Knuckle
Note: If close enough MP Thunder Knuckle goes through you
Burning Kick
Overhead (F.MP)

Note: C.Vipers Walk animation goes straight through you weird…

Cammy

Spin Knuckles
Cannon Spikes

Chun-Li

Kikoken
Spinning Bird Kicks (Not a good idea)
U1 (Only if she’s not full screens distance away – Courtesy of ClydeByrd)
df.HK

Cody

Ruffian Kicks MK and HK only
Bad Rocks unless the rock arcs at you and hits you during the crouch
Bingo Punches
Super MK and HK only
U1
U2 During the wrench swings he’ll go right through you

Dan

Dankuu
Korykukens
Gadokens
U2
U1

Dee Jay

Max Outs (or whatever they’re calling them now)
Rolling Sobat
Jackknife Maximum
Machine Gun Upper
U1

Dhalsim

Yoga Fire
Yoga Flame (timing is fairly strict for it to all not hit)
(since Dhalsim has ranged normals I’ll cover standing stretchy normals too)
s. FP
s. MP
Cr. LP
s.MK

Dudley

Machine Gun Blow All Strengths But EX (timing strict for HP)
Jet Upper
Short Swing Blow
Thunderbolt All Strengths but EX
Dash Upper and Dash Straight
U1 (Every Hit but not the whole ultra at once don’t do it)
U2
Overhead(f.HK)

E.Honda:

Headbutts
Buttslams (on the way up and the way down)
Super
U1

El Fuerte

Tostada Press: If Close or Cross Up Punish with cr.MK >> Slide
Fajita Buster
Propeller Tortilla
Quesadilla Bomb
U1
Overhead(f.MK)

Fei Long

Ultra (goes through you always)
Super (goes through you up close)
Rekkas (2nd hit goes through you)
Chicken Wings
Flame Kick
Overhead(f.MK)

Gen

Bicycle Kicks of All Strengths
Mantis Super if you’re not too close
Mantis U1
Wall Dives All but the one that goes straight down
Mantis U2
Crane U2
Overhead (F.MP Crane)

Gouken

Hadokens of all strengths
Senkugoshoha (Dashing Palm)
Demon Flip Throw
Tatsu
U1
U2
Overhead (F.MP)

Guile

Sonic Booms
Flash Kicks
U2
Overhead(f.MP)

Guy

Hozanto
Bushin Senpukyaku
Run > Overhead Kick
Flip > Throw/Elbow Drop
Overhead (f.MP)

Hakan

Oil Dives
Super

Ibuki:

Kunais of all strengths except EX (at max range)
Kazegiri AKA DP Kicks
Tsumiji AKA Spin Kicks and High Followups (Low Follow Ups Will STILL hit)
Hien
U2 (All hits separately but If the whole thing is used up close the third hit will smack you and the animation will go off)
Just a random note if you do the guard position before the flash its strange because she goes right through you.
Overhead(f.MK)

Juri

Dive Kicks
Fuhajin Store (kick)
Fuhajin Release (fireball) all strengths but Light and Low EX
Pinwheel Kicks except for EX
Overhead (F.MK)

Ken:

Tatsus
Hadokens
U1
U2
Shoryukens

M. Bison (Dictator)

Headstomps
Devils Reverse
Psycho Crushers
Scissor Kicks will go over you if your close enough

Makoto:

Hayates of all strengths (Hard Punch goes straight through Hakan during the CC if close enough)
Fukiages does not hit grounded opponents anyway
U2

Rose

Soul Spark
Soul Drill
Super
U1

Rufus

Galactic Tornado LP and MP only
Messiah Kick and Light Kick Follow up (every other follow up hits)
Snake Strike
Overhead(f.MK)
Dive Kicks (If he’s close to the ground then it doesn’t work)

Ryu:

Shoryukens
Hadokens
Super
U1
Tatsus
Overhead (f.MP)

Sagat

Tiger Shots Low or High
Tiger Uppercuts
Tiger Knees
U2
Overhead (f.HP)

Sakura

Tatsus
Otoshi
U2
Overhead(F.MK)

Seth

Sonic Booms
Shoryukens
Firecracker Kicks
J.HK doesn’t matter which direction its coming from or not it just always misses
Dive Kick

T. Hawk

Condor Spire
Condor Dive
Tomahawk Buster

Vega (Claw)

Wall Dives and Izuna Drops
Super
U1
Scarlet Terrors
Overhead df.MK

Zangief

Green Hands
Fast Lariats

Of course not all of this is practical I just wanted to test to see what all the Coward Crouch could get around I’m gonna have to sift through all of this later to see what moves can be punished after a coward crouch and what moves can’t and if you guys find anything new don’t hesitate to tell me.


#2

Reserved for possible future use


#3

good to have this. Can you test Seth’s j.HP and s.HP along with his j.HK wall dive cross-up, headstomps, and j.HK command normal (dive kick)? With that in mind, test Rufus’ dive kick please. Also what about overheads? Hakan’s Guard position can recover fast enough that it could work well in footsies.

Can it dodge Juri’s pinwheel kick, or Chun-Li’s df.HK? Would help to have everything in alphabetical, but that can come later. Thanks again.


#4

Nice work Superlooper !


#5

To CC Chun-Li’s U1 you have to duck at the when she activates and be close enough that when she does the first jump accross the screen she hops over you. If you do it too far way you will be hit by lightning kicks.

Basicly if she doesn’t combo into it and you aren’t at full screen mash CC when she activates and you are good.


#6

Man I feel like when you see all the moves it totally dodges we should all make a concerted effort to incorporate this into our game as a major tactical emphasis.

For example I’ve fooled around with coward crouching during opponents wakeup, dodging wakeup SRK’s and flash kicks, etc. It’s really effective cuz opponents cant FADC but i haven’t used it enough yet to effectively followup with good punishes, learne where characters land in relation to me, etc. Good stuff though!


#7

Alright Metro I tested what you wanted for a quick overview

-Seth Wall Dive Cross Up HK whiffs
-Seth Standing HP and Jumping HP hits unfortunately
-Seth Dive Kick whiffs
-All Pinwheels besides EX Whiff
-Rufus Dive Kick Hits
-Most Overheads whiff the only 3 overheads that hit Hakan are
Cody’s f.HP
Honda’s df.HK
Makoto’s qcb+p


#8

Seriously good stuff man. This is a VERY good find!


#9

Thanks for this thread Superlooper. Coward Crouch is something we probably overlook a bit. I’ll try and help with some testing too :slight_smile:


#10

Hey has anybody tried using Guard Position as an option select?


#11

No but that would be good thing to test/look for if anyone could aid me in looking for that because an OS Guard Position would be amazing


#12

I tried for about a half hour trying to find a OS for GP. I had an idea of 3P1K, to autotech throws and duck if there isn’t a throw, but I dunno about that…


#13

I actually had the same idea but I cant do it on a controller, my stick broke a couple days ago and I’m none too happy about it


#14

Yeah. I mean, it techs the throws, but I dunno… I don’t think it’s fast enough honestly.


#15

I think I’m with you on that one


#16

Low tiger shot was interesting, heh. probably gonna view this thread some more but that stood out for me


#17

Interesting thing about GP is that it is immediately invincible from his knees up, but takes him a while to get all the way down and move his vulnerable shins to a lower position.

This just means that certain attacks you can avoid right away, pretty much instantly, but for other lower attacks, you’ll have to start it earlier so Hakan can fully lie down and move his vulnerable legs out of the way.


#18

does anyone know what the startup frames are for the guard position? Curious because it would be cool if we could oil slide -> body press -> lk oil -> guard position to avoid srk’s as a mixup (grab/gp). The only thing that the EH frame data lists is the 30 frame cooldown.


#19

I actually tried this yesterday against a Dudley’s Jet Upper and it seemed to work


#20

1st frame = instantly invincible from the knees up (only has hurtboxes on his shins and ankles), upper collision box disappears. As the move continues, he moves his legs to the back of his body, and the hurtboxes go with them (example: 5th frame)

8th frame = is just about lying down, still has lower leg hurtboxes, but a new hurtbox appears from his toes to his armpits. Upper collision box is still gone, and lower one has now moved off the screen (this is why things pass through him). The move stays this way until he starts getting up again.

Getting up = 17 frames, fully vulnerable, upper collision box is back, and he has joint-hurtboxes (what you see is what you can hit, basically)

I may be wrong about some of this, I’m just going off the hitbox data… if anyone knows different, let me know! :stuck_out_tongue: I’m suspicious of the recovery frames, because it’s known that there are superfluous recovery animations in this game, and I’m not sure if the guy making the hitbox vids was trying to prevent them or not.

As for avoiding DPs, I don’t know if you could do it first frame, as your legs are still in the way, and the DP can hit them. maybe after 5-6 frames because he’s moved his legs out of the way? Maybe you have to wait until he’s fully lying down? Not sure about the exact number.

EDIT: I just checked the raw video again, and it appears that the player is holding down after the move, so those recovery frames should be legit… I hope. :stuck_out_tongue: