Dudely vs Yun

dudley

#1

beating freaking Yun

I play Dudley and thought I was getting pretty decent with him. Then a friend of mine came over and whipped my ass with Yun. We play evey week I need help bad hehe. Anyone with any ass kicking Dudley stuff against Yun.


#2

combination parrying, zoning, and putting pressure.

basically, the parrying will be against the dive kick and the shoulder attack. Learn to parry those from every possible distance, and half the time you’ll be able to counter with either a jet uppercut xx SA1/SA2, or s.RH, EX mgb set up.

zoning: This is a hard act to pull off against Yun players, considering you’ll more than likely end up back peddling at times and won’t realize it until you’re stuck in a corner. s.RH’s are good because either they’ll trade with the dive kick and allow you to dash in afterwards and either do f+RH as an overhead, or c.RH as a juggle starter. But, again, it’s only kind of safe, so you may end up taking damage and not giving any in return.

s.strong and s.Fierce have some ability to stop a lot of yun’s moves. most notably, s.Fierce can sometimes beat out the dive kick, and the s.Strong is good if the yun player gets smart and empty jumps, hoping to parry.

========= OTHER ZONING TRICKS ==============

**- (on an opponent that’s blocking) s.RH, QCF+RH, throw. **
This command basically has the opponent waiting for the second part of the dash uppercut move, instead, because of blocking, they’ll be thrown further into a corner.

**- f+jab (x3), jab mgb. **
this jab has dudley position himself so that he won’t move back so easy and can throw out more jabs. Anyway, by the third jab, opponent may try to parry, and the jab mgb will smack them out of that idea. What’s also good is that, they’ll see the end of the mgb as a time to retaliate. If your friend relies heavily on genei jin, then chances are, he’s going to try and hit you with c.forward. Parry and super ^__^. Or, if you know you won’t be able to parry in time, block low right after mgb. If he doesn’t do anything, do the previous trick.

**- f+Fierce xx SA1/SA2 **
if they start to jump a lot and get parry happy in the air, greet them with this gem. This works best with rocket uppercut as it comes below the fierce, so the timing for the next parry will be thrown off. Corkscrew blow works too, of course, but, it starts at the same level as the f+fierce, so they may be able to block all five hits. This is the case for whenever you can tell they’ll do a regular jump to try and get away. just dash back, f+fierce, and bam, hit 'em with super.

**- Stay about a character length away. **
I guess this should have been the first thing listed, but, the reason why i put it down here is mainly because it’s a range issue, rather than an attack. one character length’s away leaves you open for three things. s.Fierce, c.Roundhouse, dash punch attack. The shoulder tackle shouldn’t be too much of a problem, get the timing right, and you can throw them back into the corner during the move (remember, the actual attack part of the move is at the end). As for the dive kick, he’ll have so little room to actually jump and use the move, that you can see it coming. Use j.strong to stop him. As for the three things mentioned that you’ll be open too (if at all), neither is comboable, so even if you mess up trying to parry to get more meter, there’s jack diddly going to happen after if you play smart. basically, the tactic after a parry, should be super, or, jet uppercut. If you’re really feeling lucky (read, like a little bitch), do QCF + Roundhouse, throw. don’t do the attack part of the dashing punch, and throw instead. :slight_smile:

**- jump, press forward early, land, super. **
This is sort of a last resort tactic, but, it’s so utterly stupid, that it works sometimes (just ask mikemenace, 'cause he ate it a few times :cool: gg mike). By pressing forward early, the opponent’s psyched into throwing out something, whether it’s a jab or a super or whatever, your super (considering it’s either SA1 or SA2) will snuff their attack. It’s more a psychological tactic than anything, but people get panicky when they know they’re options are limited.


#3

Alright, I’ve talked about zoning, now i want to talk about pressuring. This is more of a universal application so i’ll use another post entry (besides, the other one was long, and needed a huge divider. Anyway…

Dudley has some kick ass rush down tools at his disposal. They are (in order of importance):

f+strong
f+forward
s.strong
c.forward
f+Roundhouse
f+Fierce
s.fierce
s.short

okay, so what do you do if the yun player is actually blocking, or does something to leave himself open for attack, but you’re too far for a combo? Pressuring my friend, pressuring.
Pressuring with dudley will do two things for you (or one or the other). It will make the yun (or any other player for that matter) make mistakes (which you want), and it will put your close enough to do a massive-damage dealing combo (which you want even more).
Use a combination of the above to put a great deal of pressure, usually start with one of the first two. At the same time, understand that a combination of them, if they manage to hit rather than meet a block, will not yield a combo. Combo’s are different (the only move listed above that’s good for that is s.short (which sets up dudley’s primary chain).
My first choice for pressuing is f+strong, because it goes so far, which is a necessity when there’s a big gaping hole between you and your opponent that you don’t want/need.

Here’s an example: f+strong, s. strong, f+forward, c. strong f+strong, c. forward.

What this does is to mix up high and low. players have a hard time, and hate being pushed back, so they’ll try and a)retaliate during, or b)parry and retaliate. Obviously, the reason a lot of the moves above are listed in that order is because they all have different timing/frames, so they have a tendency to snuff out moves that come out of nowhere (or trade, which works too), and because of their difference in times, they have a tendency to smack would-be parryers. The final part of it (the c.forward) is a quick knock down that only helps in pushing the opponent back into a corner (score!). Now you’ve successfully limited options. Good job!
Murphy’s law dictates that you will fuck it up however. This happens to everyone. Pressuring can, and WILL, fail. Don’t stick to the same patterns, don’t use pressuring if you’re not close enough to even push on the opponent, and obviously don’t try to do it when a super’s headed your way. The likelihood of you stopping a super (especially if it’s cunt-li and her megakicks of doom) drop dramatically if you use things like f+strong. Experiment, mix it up, know that it won’t always work and get around that idea, and you’ll be fine.
Now, more about the moves themselves WRT being used in the pressure game:

  • f+strong. It’s very versatile, and his a little recovery time, which kind of leaves you open for attack. Payoffs are often bigger though, unless you get hit by a super.

  • f+forward. Not so versatile (it has a tendency to only go from 1/2 to 3/4ths the distance of f+strong. However, it has close to no recovery time, and, if you’re lucky and hit the opponent. You can continue on with the f+forward, f+forward, f+fierce Chain.

  • s. strong. I use it primarily as testing the waters. I often use it as the third in the sequence because, if they’re crouching, they’ll see an opening, and want to hit you. You’ll recover, block/parry, and continue pressuring. sometimes, if they’re really cautious, they won’t do anything, so continue pressuring, or throw, or do s.RH, QCF+RH, throw. Whatever floats your boat.

  • c.forward. A quick knockdown that has a hell of a lot less lag than c.RH. you can’t follow up with anything, but you can put more pressure, or lure the opponent into using a wake up (those are always fun). If they don’t use a wake up super, they’re onto you. TRIP THEM AGAIN. mwahaha. okay, seriously though. Another trip wouldn’t hurt (c.forward trip, that is). Since they’ll more than likely block, you can follow up with f+Fierce (you’ll be too far for anything else to hit).

  • f+Roundhouse. if they’re crouch-blocking everything, this is where you tell them that they’re not safe either. they’ll take the hit, and want to block. Follow up with s.forward (it will chain), and either do c.forward to trip them (they’ll be blocking high now), or, if they block low again, use f+strong and start things all over again.

  • f+Fierce. If they block, good. You’re doing your job. If they don’t block, good, buffer a jet uppercut, then buffer THAT into a super. No biggie. If you’re too far to be able to connect an uppercut right after (the elbow has to have been close to the face, or else dudley’s playing a risky game of throwing out a whiffed super), then use f.Fierce to push opponents back (they’ll want to hit you for pressuring them so much, so this becomes a very safe tactic, and leaves them open for zoning tactics).

  • s.short. Doesn’t do much. Frankly, the only reason i put it up is because it sometimes hits, and i can continue the chain of short, forward, strong, but instead of finishing with fierce, i’ll end with a super. Go dudley.

That’s my take on it. Good luck against your friend and other opponents.

  • s.Fierce. Not exactly to start pressuring , but, it’s good somewhere in between. You may trade (a lot), but it’s useful because you can immediately follow up with f+strong, or f+fierce, and be on your way to more pressuring. expect retaliation right after though. It’s the only move listed that leaves dudley open like a dumbass.

#4

After his c. FK gets blocked, Chun Li (and whoever else) can super him. :frowning: His c. RK can’t be supered.

I like s. SK cause it just keeps the guy in place when you are in his face and you can just mash on it or time it or whatever. Throw out two or three and you are a perfect distance and timing (as far as frame wise goes it feels like to me) to do whatever you want. UOH, f. RK, f. FK, s. RK, etc… It’s basically an alternative to his f. jabs.

Also, Dudley c. SK is one of his most important moves as well especially when pressuring. Anyone who can do c. short, short XX super should use it. c. sk into dash is great too. And course, c. sk leads to his nice c.sk, c.sp, c.fp chain which does good stun damage and is safe.

And since this is about Yun, another thing you might want to try is just jumping up and down and hitting fp or sp or rk every so often. At the right distance (about half screen) this is a great deterrent to him throwing out random dive kicks and leaves you a bit safer then trying to react parry/counter his divekick. Plus people just get annoyed when you are jumping up and down. :smiley:

c. FP I think might be good on dive kicks (it comes outs pretty fast but i don’t know if it comes out fast enough) in that even if it trades, you get free qcf kick dash xx super juggle out of air.

Oh, and one last thing. This is going to sound stupid but at the beginning of the round before Yun has enough meter to be scary, just try and parry as much of Yun’s stuff as you can. Risk vs. reward wise, Dudley can dish out way more damage then Yun after a parry especially outside of Yun’s close standing jab range. Since most Yun’s use Genei-Jin the most you have to worry about is c. fk into jab punch where he has to worry about rk, into ex machine gun blow into juggle into all sorts of pressure which = DAMAGE. One rk combo from dudley even without ending with super on yun almost equals a full genei-jin combo on dudley.
Also, don’t jump at Yun unless you are more then half-screen away. No point to it. He can just walk under you and s. fk laucnh into Genei-Jin or something.


#5

shhhhhhh, you guys can’t help him. I haven’t learned the timing on kara palm or super jump cancelling yet :wink:


#6

so you wanna beat yun???

if you want to beat a good yun player you gotta be able to do some things. either be able to red parry a standing jab after a dive kick and then punish it with a ex machine gun blow. or be able to red parry a shoulder after jab jab short med shouder. another thing you should be able to parry is when yun tries to cross you up with the dive kick. if you can parry those three things then you can pretty much shut down a yun player

late

simon


#7

so you wanna beat yun???

Cameron will beat me no more:lol: Must learn redparry after dive kick and the cross up dive kick, that is what is KILLING ME. I suppose that and not practicing nearly enough.


#8

Cross counter that shit. Yun is a POS without super.


#9

to beat yun, you cant let him combo geni jin on you. youd think that was common sense but people seem to try to rush yun down like he’s yang or sumthin. but if you really want to be a yun killer, learn to parry the dash punch that yun has while he’s in the geni jin. and be able to parry a overhead med kick while hes in the geni jin


#10

Hahaha! Yun > Dudley


#11

EX CROSS COUNTER DIVE KICKS!!!


#12

It’d whiff if it’s a cross over dive kick :smiley:


#13

then it’d miss…but when he goes for another dive kick…

EX CROSS COUNTER!!!


#14

Sup all you dudley players out there… From my personal experience against yun, its all about pressure and distancing. You dont need red parrys here and there either to get a win.

A good thing to learn about yun is how to avoid the ge-nei-gin or stop it. Since dudley’s anti air is so good vs yun, keeping the right distance with the right pokes can stop yuns dive kicks. When the time is right, u can pressure yun in the corner at a safe distance when dudley can win in the air if yun tries a dive kick or a jump overwards.

If yun makes a successful dive kick, my guess is to just block/tech throw if u see it, dont let him combo his ge-nei-gin, if your good at blocking or poking or parrying the ge-ne-gin, you’ll do fine as long as it hasnt been comboed in. Its also probably safer to parry the ge-nei-jin from a safe distance, say mid screen distance.

Dudley and Yun equally good i think


#15

In my personal experience and all the good Yun players I talk to , Dudley kills Yun, Yun has a really tough time with Dudley because :

Yun has to get close to u sooner or later, and one mistake Dudley can take off 1/3 of ur life, while Yun has to rely on hitting u bits by bits and hitting u often.
Dudley hits hard even from far away, even if the Yun isnt aggressive and turtles, Dudley can get in without much problem.
The end of a GJ combo a toward fierce, jab dash punch (I duno the name) never hits Dudley.
So unless ur Japanese, Yun doesnt pose too much of a threat to me. At tournaments I rather face Yun than pretty much anyone else, I have never lost to a Yun in tourneys with Dudley.


#16

that’s cause the only yun you play against in tournament is against me!!! bleah, stupid dudley…

just knock yun down and play high/low games with dudley and it’s peace out for yun ALL THE TIME…


#17

What does he have on Yun?
I have no idea…er, had no idea for a while until I learned some few things

At first I thought “Dudley beats Yun”, but prolly not true, however, he does pretty damn decent against him

Dudley has a chance, but 50/50 chance favors Yun only because what Yun does in his game is safe for the most part, while Dudley’s stuck guessing or getting lucky off of one blow

Dudley can do the damage, but he needs to see the opening for when Yun makes mistakes…an advanced strat I’ve recently been coming across is that good Yun players will make “FAKE OPENINGS” for you to retaliate, then block safely and counter with a damaging, if not 50% combo…now that’s sick!

I’ve been told by my friend that Yun’s Genei Jin off of a command grab will always do less than if you try to get out, so I’ve been keeping my counter-Corkscrew Blows to a minimum

although he doesn’t exactly have the best Yun player in the world…

his advice is to mix-in more throw setups…

another important tip is to learn the f+RH into super link as well as the c.short x 2 into super combo for a good high-low game…then put the throw in there for a third option…and yet a fourth option would be to bait them out of something to retaliate if they have say a shoto and wakeup DP.

Any other tips are appreciated…(especially for my 2nd rate Dudley :))


#18

c.jab x2 xx super is a good idea, but make sure they connect, 'cause if they block the cs blow, you’re in trouble. that goes double for RU.

Against yun players, it’s a pretty hard game. Yun has the speed to make up for damage from a long dudley combo, and now more and more people are becoming aware of the super retaliation when genei jin is activated, so people are better at parrying, and set you up so you eat combo. They’ll know you’ll try and turtle, so they’ll use a barrage of s.shorts/s.jabs to get you to block, and then do the command grab. That’s why the c.jab cancel is so good, because if you trade hits, you may be able to throw out another jab in time for super. If not, the yun player will become aware of the super and try to block, or worse, throw. They’ll be too far to throw you, but if you stick out a fierce or something, you could get thrown. I posted in another thread about something called Option Selecting, and this is really a gem for this situation. Read up on it, 'cause i’m too lazy to write it here.

Idea is to not let yun connect, and if you see yun move differently than would have you believe he’s doing a normal, chances are he’s going for a)kara palm/regular palm b)tackle/dash punch, c)dive kick, so if you see those during genei jin, THEN do super. for all other intents and purposes, stay away from using super to retaliate, i’m telling you from personal experiences against people who are learning to parry the fuck out of everything.

that said, don’t stick to fancy combos, do stuff you know will do damage, and more importantly, keep your meter healthy, and at level 1, or more. You’re going to need those EX’s to get you out of tight situations.

Hope that helps.


#19

hey ken,

one thing I’ve found out to be pretty useful is to abuse ducking against a jumping yun.

you know how people will just jump straight up over and over to setup ‘surprise’ dive kicks? well, you can pretty safely do a roundhouse ducking to crossunder them, and that puts you at a good range to start a mixup. the least it will do is put momentum back into your court, and keep him from building free meter.

other than random overheads -> super, there isn’t that much you can do, but luckily, random overhead -> super does like 40% damage.


#20

Double Reppuken: The low jabs are an interesting feature, but I prefer the c.short x 2 because it has a longer delay during the combo, and has slightly more range, and I believe it is possible to high block the low jab. The Yun I play against NEVER does tackle, palm strike, or dive kicks in Genei Jin mode unless it’s off a combo, he’s always doing normals, mashing on strong and short to get sucked in and closer to me. I’m not sure what the exact attack pattern is, but he does a few hits, then pauses (the fake opening which he uses to bait me), then continues, and then mashes on short, until suddenly he does command grab out of nowhere and I have pretty much no time to react.

erco: yeah, the overhead link is important, but I’ve had trouble doing it lately…on a lighter note, my c.short x 2 -> super is becoming better in execution
I’m not so sure about the ducking, what if they do a short dive kick?
another tip might be: I’ve seen Dudley’s pick SA I on Yun, but I have no idea why?!?
only on Hugo and other peeps, but Yun?
I still prefer corkscrew…the only way I found theoretical damage against Yun is in the footsies and by retaliating, but that doesn’t work because Yun’s low kicks get whiffed by Dudley’s punches, missing Yun entirely and setting Yun up nicely for a counter attack

the way to get damage practically against Yun is to take a risk and guess right parrying during Genei Jin, which is risky, but I always try because I’m an impatient sucker…kinda like turtling but if I try rushing him down, I get owned because he has too many counter…
Although I did find out the other day that jumping and parrying as you land is a good idea…but that was just the Yun I was playing, meaning that he never did too many EX rising kicks and usually did the jab, short, strong chain upon my landing behind him as he walked under me countering my throw.