DWU or Unblockables?


#1

So according to Gilley who talked to Combofiend, DWU was essential to remove unblockables. Assuming this is true, what would which would you prefer?


#2

Neither.

I don’t believe what Combofiend said is true. It was just a lazy fix.

Even if you were to believe Combofiend’s reasons, it just means that DWU doesn’t remove unblockables.


What are your thoughts on Ryu's USF4 changes?
#3

Maybe so, but unblockables won’t be practiced/implemented in high level play due to the frame perfect nature of their setups. And even if they were, you have a real way out of them.


#4

QFT.

The only thing I’ve taken from AE2012 is how to be a scumbag. If it’s not cheap, you’re not trying hard enough.


#5

According to Combofiend, Guile’s health was nerfed because he is more difficult to get in on in this version yet a good number of characters can reaction ultra right through his sonic booms from 3/4 to full screen away. One can catch punish Guile’s lp sonic boom from full screen and it registers as a counterhit.


#6

DWU is there for any unblockables that are still in the game, or ones that might come up in the future. It also reduces some of the auto pilot vortex type stuff. DWU could also be used for any wacky stuff that might also come up, things we might not even be thinking of right now. It also requires no new assets to be created.

It’s a pretty good fix at this point in the game’s life. This is more than likely going to be the last version of SF4.


#7

neither

how about unblockable removed and DWU not implemented ? lazzy fix is lazzy, and i will need to see it with my eyes that unblockable still exist and technical justification that they cant be fixed , also if they arnt sure about unblockable being removed and DWU not fixing them , why implement it then ? …

so thats literally mean, " play the way we want you to play or go away ", best way for discouraging creative gameplay … trying to justifiy this mechanic with unblockable is not convincing, slow assed matchs, random game phases , another unjustified defense option … oh god i should stop right here


#8

“Neither” is not an option. Also look at the wording of my post, “assuming this is true”. It may be a load of hogwash, however only Combofiend and other Capcom reps know for sure.


#9

“Neither” is an option.


#10

neither. i hate both but unblockables over DWU.
i also don’t believe Capcom really tried to solve the issue. there’s been unblockables in nearly every SF game but none so simple like in SF4. SF4 has some serious issues with the “wake-up” state and hitboxes colliding. cross-ups are too easy as well and it seems basically everyone has one. moves that shouldn’t cross-up sometimes do like Ryu’s fj.HP for example.

one way to fix at least half of the unblockables is to decrease the hitbox on cross-up attacks so they’re not too under the character or just have them do less hit stun so you have to do them closer to the ground which (in theory) would allow the opponent to actually block it properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYweRkQ-zfw

judging from that video, it seems the whole issue may stem from when the center divider loads into a wake-up state or some type of collision between 2 characters’ divider boxes, forcing them immediately to one side or the other. also, the “proximity block” animation may not be activating because of a problem with air attacks not having that hitbox portion implemented correctly.

maybe only make HKD from just sweeps or just throws. shitty either way but it might lead to only occasional unblockable setups and keep the game pace moving. also, why does every character cross-up in the corner? take that shit out.


#11

How often do you get hit by unblockable setups? If you’re an online player like the majority chances are it doesn’t happen really often. DWU is a fuckfest 24/7.


#12

Im for neither as well. Delayed wakeup is making it boring, and everyone knew it would make the game slower. Unblockables are bad too even if youre not the ones being hit by them. If they got rid of the unblockables and then made delayed wakeup another way to avoid unblockables then its redundant.

Getting hard knockdowns shouldnt be punished by the game itself.


#13

DWU is so tacky


#14

I have teleport
EX Psycho/Scissors/DR
Kappa

I hardly get hit by them when I choose to block anyway. Especially Cammy/Oni/Akuma, maybe cause I was learning all 3 at one point. Especially Cammy, her setups were the first thing I learned before anything else. People should be happy nobody bothers to play Juri seriously, she has so much cheesy stuff that nobody uses.


#15

Im curious about that too. At the beginning they were talking a lot about the extra frame of hit detection or whatever, that would vanish the unblockables from the game. I never heard about that again since then. Now I wanna to know if the unblocks are still there or not, its not clear yet. Its important information, specially for the Edition Select mod.


#16

I still don’t know what “extra frame of hit detection” means.


#17

Most unblockables are removed. At the FR USF4 build, I tried a couple of unblockables and still managed to pull them off lol . Those same unblockables didn’t work against vanilla characters


#18

When hitboxes collide, the game kind of slows down an extra frame to check which way you are blocking. They did this to remove most of the unblockables.

I’m not sure if you’ve played it yet. When you do though, you’ll immediately notice that you’re going to be missing your combos. The hits of your combos will feel slower, almost like going from Xbox > PS3 but not quite as bad. It’s easy to adjust to this new timing.

Here’s a rough explanation I got of this from combofiend


#19

Depends, if you are playing ranked and have a good amount of points or have done some work to cultivate a friendslist that doesn’t blow you’ll end up playing people who know their shit.

Hell there are a lot of Ibuki players who can only vortex/unblockable and do tsumuji loops and can’t do anything else.


#20

I still don’t understand this. I don’t know why they would need to add another frame of hit-detection as the game can check for collision and which direction you’re holding in a single frame. Unless they’re doing something really weird, the game will do this on every iteration of the game loop (check which hit-boxes are colliding; check if the direction the player is holding a valid block input). It also doesn’t explain why that would remove most of the unblockables because most of them don’t happen like that.

Consider Ryu’s f.throw, st.hk, j.mk unblockable on Vega. This unblockable demonstrates 3 issues that cause most of the unblockables:

(all 3 scenarios started with Vega in the right corner, then Ryu jumping over him)

If Vega holds backward, this is what happens:

The proximity hitbox check kicks in and he goes into a blocking stance because by the time he wakes up, the attack is still considered in front of him. However, this locks him into position and shrinks his pushbox which causes Ryu’s j.mk fly right over and hit behind him. This of course means he gets hit because you need to hold forward to block the cross-up. You can see that there’s a big gap between the pushbox on Vega’s head and the pushbox in Ryu’s mid-section.

When he holds forward:

Proximity blocking doesn’t kick in because the attack is in front of him, so he should be holding backward. However, because he isn’t blocking, his pushblock doesn’t shrink, his last standing frame isn’t cancelled into a block (not that it matters in this case), and in the end Ryu’s j.mk can’t quite make it over him to hit as a x-up (some other can chars might walk forward a bit before getting hit).

The previous animation looks like it’s a meaty but it’s not. He can crouch under this without blocking:

In fact, both Ryu and Vega are in exactly the same position as the first image. Vega won’t get hit because his hurtboxes can’t collide with the j.mk.

So in conclusion I still don’t know what 1 extra frame of hit-detection means, and how it’s supposed to help in cases like these. The only scenario I can think of is perhaps Vega’s U1 unblockable on Ibuki (even the AI can’t block it), and meaty unblockables that hit the last standing frame of your wake up (eg. Sakura f.throw, st.lk, j.mk vs Cody in the corner). These types of unblockables are not common though.


What properties make moves "unblockable?"