E.Honda Needs Some Help BADLY

Hey everyone,

Just started playing again after a couple of years off due to the Covid outbreak. I was super excited to play as Honda again since he was my main in SF4 and SF2 and while I like his design and skills in this game but after making it to Gold it’s become that he has some glaring flaws and I was wondering if anyone could assist me in figuring things out. Maybe it’s delay from online, but nevertheless here are my issues with honda:

Main issues with Honda:

  1. Honda has little-to-no priority with hitboxes in general.

  2. Honda has incredibly limited wake-up options compared to others.

  3. Honda has inconsistent/wonky answers to deal with pressure compared to others.

  4. Honda’s EX’s are risky to use because of insane lag-time afterwards. (especially EX Headbutt)

  5. Honda’s EX’s have NO priority on startup or afterwards in some cases, making them difficult to use to pressure or to defend. (which is kind of his schtick)

  6. Limited/predictable approach options (duh)

  7. EX Headbutt:
    A. EX headbutt does not have super armor on startup and AWFUL priority, making it a bad wakeup. You can be grabbed, light hit, or even SWEPT out of it. (LOL)
    B. EX headbutt is -26 on block. Yes, EX headbutt is MINUS TWENTY-SIX on BLOCK… I have yet to see an EX move in this game with half a second of lag afterwards that also is as good as neutral dashing at your opponent on startup. This move is INCREDIBLY UNSAFE to use, even when defending. (LOL AGAIN)

  8. EX Buttslam
    A. EX sumo slam has no super armor and a ridiculously small hitbox in comparison to SF4, ESPECIALLY on startup.
    B. Sumo slam can be grabbed out of on startup, or simply light hit on startup to immediately return you back to the ground with one chunk of meter missing. If you’re in a corner you cannot use this move to wake up because it loses so many trades, from grabs to light hits. It can even be interrupted in the air with something as small as a light punch that isn’t supposed to function as an AA under normal circumstances. The amount of times I’ve been knocked out of this move while rising or falling is horrendous, especially compared to SF4.

  9. Hundred Hand Slap
    A. Hundred hand slap in this game is pretty solid, especially with V2, no real complaints here. It’s probably Honda’s best move in the game and is relatively safe on block, especially light which is +3 or +4.

  10. Sumo Throw
    A. Sumo throw is okay but the hitbox is wonky compared to other command grabs. I’ve had moments where I charge forward and grab and it just goes through them/whiffs and I’m left wide open. The hitbox is inconsistent. I’ve also had times where I’ve been light punched or grabbed on the startup of my command grab and lost the “trade”, which is something I have yet to experience with other characters as they seem to command grab instantly upon input.

What Honda Needs:

  1. EX Headbutt needs WAY less lag on block. EX Headbutt needs either armor immediately on startup or invincibility on startup and a big enough hitbox to have priority over grabs and act as an AA, like his other headbutts do. (this is REALLY bad for Honda at this point in the game, like RIDICULOUSLY BAD)

  2. EX Sumo Slam needs a much bigger hitbox on startup, perhaps with disjoint so that it has priority over someone actually in it’s way. One hit of super armor or on startup with bigger hitbox to make it actually worth using. (This is also VERY bad for Honda in the current game)

  3. Either faster startup on command grab, invincibility in first couple of frames of command grab, or super armor on EX and priority over normal grab in general. (I have been normal grabbed at the same time that I input this and have lost the trade which is just a LOL moment)

OVERALL:
Honda needs buffs that allow moves in his kit (especially EX moves) to have more priority than they do now. There is NO reason why Honda’s EX’s in particular are as bad as they are. I have yet to be able to grab someone out of a DP or Blanka’s EX down charge on startup or trip someone during their aerial/spinning bird kick. (I have been swept out of sumo headbutt on startup or shortly after the move starts numerous times). I also have yet to successfully win a trade with a normal grab when someone uses a command grab on me.

Of course, I’m always down for tips on how to play the character better (I love me some Honda) but Honda in SF5 is the first character I’ve played in this game where you have to significantly outplay your opponent via mindgames to win, and some matchups (such as Ken or Chun Li) require RIDICULOUSLY more effort to win because Honda’s options are so limited or just plain BAD/BROKEN. (talking like out of 70-30 winrate in their favor)

Thanks for listening to my mini-rant… Any advice or info helps, including SF5 balance dev’s email that I can send this to LOL

Stay safe and healthy!

First off, welcome to the forums. A few things for you to consider. I’ll try to be nice and blunt before people crucify you.

a) definitely a long-winded post so people won’t be crazy captivated to read it.
b) ‘scrub mentality’ types of posts generally don’t fly well here. Eventhubs or Capcom Unity are better places for that. Instead of wasting your time writing an email why not improve as a player?
c) If you offer replays of your gameplay maybe people can analyze it for you.
d) Even bad characters are viable in the hands of a good player. Honda definitely isn’t ass. There are good players doing well with him. I would advise you to look up NoNeedToTalk in terms of Honda play.

Cheers

Man you think this my first time on a forum before? I’m used to it getting wild lol
I’m always down to improve as a player and go at it but I also think there are legitimate problems with this character, do you not? Are we not allowed to offer criticism on characters?
I never said Honda was “ass” all I said was he has some glaring flaws compared to others, especially with his EX moves. I also mention it could also be latency?
I watch NoNeedToTalk, Smug, TheCoolKid93, and some misc Honda’s quite often but I’m always down to add more to the arsenal! Got any others?

Cheers :slight_smile:

I don’t think he’s close to top tier but the buffs he has received have been pretty solid. For meter usage I would just analyze how a lot of top Honda’s are spending their meter. EX Hands confirms offer good damage and I generally see a fair amount of meter dedicated to that. Other EX moves have their place but will perhaps be more limited.

Only other Honda I recall off the top of my head is TONYU-yogurt but he’s pretty solid as well.