Eagle vs. Vega - question mainly for Apoc


#1

Hey dude, big fan because I’m a Vega fanatic also.

Sorry how this is totally out of the blue, but here’s the deal…

We met in Chicago at the 2002 MWC and when playing a practice match you told me that Eagle is a real bad matchup for Vega. I should have just asked you why on the spot but I didn’t and now after having this stuck in my head and coming up with no good answers after 2 years, I can’t hang onto this topic anymore! :lol:

So I’m just gonna ask, why do you say Eagle is such a bad matchup for Vega? I don’t understand what your reasoning is, nor do I know if certain grooves play any factors into what you were saying.

If you could be so kind to explain, I’d really appreciate it a lot. Anyway, take it easy, and good luck at your upcoming tournaments, especially if you’re using the Spanish Ninja. :wink:

Of course if anyone else has some clues then by all means jump in, but I’m mainly curious what his reasoning was because to this day I still don’t see it.

P.S. - Apoc, maybe slip me a good tip for Vega fighting against Honda in SSF2T if you could. I hate that guy. I’m missin’ out on something with that matchup. :lol:


#2

imo its the same as with Guile, Vega is too fast to keep him away…

Both Guile and Eagle rely on keeping away, Guile with Sonic Booms and Eagle with his standing fierce and crouching roundhouse…

Vega=fast, just jump and youre right in their faces, ofcourse if you time them correctly… down+fierce sucks to get stuffed with everytime… but when youre in, dont get out.


#3

As for Vega jumping…Does no one use the jab +FB motion move (sorry don’t know the name of it) against jumpins?

You can let it go when you want to so if the person empty jumps or tries to get a deep jump in with anything other then P or K they are getting hit if you let go of jab in time. With K they bounce back up and you can down and fierce or standing strong…

Anyway I play on XBL so I’m sure arcade is different but that’s what I use on jump happy people.


#4

Hmm I think you got it backwards doom. Personally whenever somebody chooses vega I pick Eagle to makes things easier for me. Eagles j.mp is beastly air to air so go figure it works well against vega in the air (its even good against rolento haha). C.fp anti-airs vega a good percentage of the time unless its a really small jump, otherwise Rc lariat will do the trick. Eagle is just a well rounded match up for vega in my perspective. Guile vs Vega on the other hand is a different story since the reliance on sonic booms can’t be used as adequetly, since vega’s fucking quick, but even in this matchup I think its possible to muscle your way through with well placed c.mk’s and rc booms. :cool:


#5

Yeah, what Apoc was saying is that Eagle has the advantage over Vega, but I’m not sure if I believe that.

Maybe he won’t see this thread, but for now you guys are giving me stuff to think about.


#6

doom- lay off the weed

roger- well said

brent- watch our matches in the losers finals at tournament of champions. i played eagle decently enough for you to see why eagle beats vega. P-vega can whore short jump rh and eagle can’t do much about it except a really fast RC lariat on reaction. overall.

eagle > vega


#7

it seemed logical in my way :frowning: i never played this matchup so… well sorry for giving false info


#8

Sup Vega, thanx:)

Eagle has an easier time with Vega for many reasons. Eagle’s air defenses tighter in this match up. Vega needs to jump from certain ranges to make it useful and he’s easily followed if he jumps back. Eagle’s jump is useful at many ranges. Basically, Vega has to keep you at a certain range for his airdefenses to work. Once Eagle is inside, he nails everything Vega does so Vega is forced to block or AC.

So, I see it as just being patient and countering until the opportunity arises to get inside. Once inside, Vega is dust, every defense is a liability if used at the wrong time. There’s a reactionary counter for everything. Now Eagle’s all over him and Eagle uses many hits. It’s really easy to knock Vega’s claw and mask off once inside with Eagle. Now the match is unbalanced. Vega can’t do much damage without spending his meter on 2 weak ass supers. He can’t even really combo. So, if Vega lands a poke, you got hit. If Eagle counter pokes, Vega gets comboed for MORE damage than he normally would. It’s really hard for Vega to maintain at this point. Especially if you get inside when he has no claw or mask(which isn’t hard).

Basically, I think they aren’t equal in defense or offense in this match-up. Eagle has better defense and better offense. As if that isn’t enough, he’s a combo character whose normals counter Vega’s best pokes. That right there will tell you that Vega will lose his claw and mask more to a character. So Eagle has that advantage much more often than most.

Basically, I don’t feel that Vega can get in so, as most times, Vega should be playing defensively trying to keep Eagle out. Eagle can still counter poke so, say you eat a couple of low strongs, then you counter with a st.mk into mk rush. Vega lost more overall since he gets closer and closer to losing his claw and mask with every counter. Still, Vega has to play this way and go for as many throws as he can. Otherwise, Eagle wins on the ground and in the air. Vega is reduced to running and poking. Be patient and zone.

But look at the damage factor overall. The most Vega can do is a combo into red impact. Eagle combos his super and Vega takes more damage while going down a ratio.

Eagle’s even on the poke game here and he has way more damage opportunities being that he isn’t a charge character.

Vega can win but he has to know the ranges like he knows his jimmy. He also has to play conservative while having quick reflexes. Eagle can play offensively and defensively as well as mixing it up.

I guess it boils down to Eagle having more freedom while also being able to capitalize on his openings far more effectively.

I’m not into competing anymore but here’s some Honda tips:)

You need to be able to react to the headbutt. Honda can turtle very easily but he has to get ahead on damage. So to use that turtle power, Honda wants you to block headbutts. If you can avoid blocking them and counter them more often than not, you’ll do much better. Backflipping and throwing them is good. RH flipkicks. Jumping back, up, or over. Empty jump is good in the corner if they whore the jab headbutt. It’ll come out too slow and Vega can block and counter. Well ranged normals are good but you have to be very discerning about which headbutt they’re doing. They can bait you into countering the fierce headbutt and do the jab headbutt instead and nail your counter. I like to get Honda in the corner and bait headbutts. In the corner, it doesn’t matter which headbutt he’s using, just flipkick on reaction. It’s fun and it’s mad good if you can do it consistently.

RH flipkick(once) and then off the wall cross-up is a good way to set up the cross-up cheapness. Don’t block cross-up butt slams, kkkflip out of them before he comes down. Otherwise, you’ll be eating some grabs.

This is a tough match for Vega. The damage is all in Honda’s favor not to mention the throwing game once he gets in is really dirty. You have to be on your toes with your attacks and counters here because he can comeback in a heartbeat.

Whore cross-up wall dives on his wake-up. It’s seems lame but it works a lot. Of course, if they know how to counter it, knock it off, heheh.

Hope this helps and the Eagle explanation makes sense.

Apoc.


#9

Apoc - Sounds like gospel to me. :lol: I appreciate the in-depth explanation on the Eagle/Vega CvS2 matchup and the Honda/Vega ST matchup. I always think your strategies make a lot of sense, so thank you. :slight_smile:

Dan - What’s up dude? Man, I don’t really have access to the matches. I can’t get them recorded onto a computer. I’m having trouble getting the tapes back to Carlos cuz he hasn’t hung out with me in awhile. Maybe if I get them back to him he can record this on DVD and then I can watch it again. I really want to watch the matches. :lol:

Doom - Hey man, just a slight misunderstanding. Don’t worry about it, you were trying to help. :slight_smile:


#10

I thought Vega could C.MP a blocked Honda headbutt… I might wrong but I am at work so can’t test this out right now.


#11

It works.


#12

In SSF2T?


#13

Thanx for the props bro:) Always fun to talk Vega=) haha

Apoc.


#14

In cvs2 it does.


#15

hey, i saw some matches of you in alpha 3. you did a pretty good job. one of my favorites to actually watch. (a cole is one of my other favs). keep it up.:slight_smile: