Easier Fei Long hit confirm combo into Rekka

fei-long

#1

I’ve recently discovered that you can combo cl.MP, c.LP, Rekka x3 so I’ve switched my jump-in combo to:

j.HP, cl.MP, c.LP, Hard Rekka x3 (302 dmg) (As bfg mentioned, not valid for crossups)

High Damage, safe on block, and it has an easier input and timing than the other Fei Long hit confirm combos into Rekka x3

cl.MP to c.LP is a 4 frame link, and it gives enough time to prepare for c.LP to Rekka as if it was an independent combo…

You should have noticed by now (and I’m pretty sure you all have) Fei Long close medium punch has one of the best frame data moves of the game (+3 on block | +7 on hit)

Am I the only one around using this? I’ve noticed everyone is using c.LK, c.LP, Rekka x3 but I find this timing quite more difficult than this one and it has only the advantage that c.LK hit low (I mean, it can’t be blocked by a standing character) , while cl.MP doesn’t (it can be blocked by a standing character, but hits on every crouching character of the game), but cl.MP has the advantage what also hits on crouching characters, including Cammy who whas a very small hitbox while she’s crouching.

Plus, and this is why it is a hit confirm combo, cl.MP and c.LP are safe on block, and there’s aswell enough time to notice if your opponent is blocking and stopping the combo on cl.MP, or trying a c.LP, Medium/Hard Chicken Wing, also safe on block, or after cl.MP walk slightly foward and go for a tick throw, or try F+MK (overhead) and start mindgames, or attempt to crossup with j.MK…


#2

Question why would you do a cl.mp after j.hp when you get more damage off j.hp cl.hp hp rekka x3 ? cl.mp I think is good for opponent wakeup pressure for a hit confirm rekka but if you have the jumpin already best to do more damage since jumpin’s can get you DP and the like.


#3

j.HP, cl.HP, Hard Rekka x3 combo is not a hit confirm combo, it’s just a combo you do and watch out if it connects or not, I see it more like a punish combo. The combo I’ve stated (j.HP, cl.MP, c.LP, Hard Rekka x3) is not that hard to pull with a little practice, it’s 20 damage less than the j.HP, cl.HP, Hard Rekka x3 combo, but as I’m going to explain below that combo is far from being safe on block, and in my opinion the balance between the damage you do and the damage you prevent to get is a very important matter in every fighting game.

Let’s take a look to Fei Long’s frame data:

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/apr/17/fei-longs-frame-data-street-fighter-4/

cl.HP has -12 on block if you fail to pull the special after it, and even if you make the Rekka x3 it’s not a completely safe move…

Imagine you jump in and do j.HP, cl.HP, 1st attack of the Light Rekka (Light Rekka 1st hit -4 on block, not safe)… in this point you have to know if you’re hitting your opponent or if he’s blocking you in order to know if you keep with the Rekka combo or not, and the window from one to another attack from the Rekka is not wide, not small at all, but you definitely have to quickly decide if you keep with it or not, so most people just stops on the second one (Light Rekka 2nd hit -6 on block, not safe) so it’s not a hit confirm combo as we know it, because you can be countered or reversed by SRK or the opponent can make a combo starting by almost every light move present in the game.

We’re using Light Rekka because the Medium and the Hard Rekka have even more negative frame advantatge if blocked (Medium Rekka 1st attack -6, Medium Rekka 2nd attack -8, Hard Rekka 1st attack -8, Hard Rekka 2nd attack -10).

But, if you use j.HP, cl.MP, c.LP, Hard Rekka x3, it’s completely safe on block because the link from cl.MP to c.LP gives you enough time to know if you have to pull the Rekka or not, and cl.MP is +3 on block and c.LP is +0 on block, plus you can cancel c.LP to Medium Chicken Wing and still be safe (-2 on block)

I know this can be not important at some levels, but if you’re fightning against high skilled people you have to know your combos are hit confirmed and mostly safe on block, so I think this combo is better for this purpose. As I said, I’ve switched to it from the other safe on block combo I was doing (j.HP, cl.MP, Medium Chicken Wing) because I lack of execution for doing the c.LK, c.LP, Rekka x3 link consistenly. This way I now have a combo I can confirm, which is not hard to do (not easy, but detinitely not hard) and does very good damage.


#4

cl.hp is unsafe on hit and block. If you fail to combo for whatever reasons, you get punished. That’s how I develop my bad hobby of using cl.mp instead of cl.hp more often.

The combo TC mentioned, apart from the doesn’t hit low thing, it also doesn’t combo for cross ups compared to the old bnb we’ve been doing I believe. It doesn’t work on the shotos at least, who we’ll be fighting at least 60% of the time. And I’d say it’s safe to assume it also doesn’t work on smaller characters like Cammy. Maybe it works on characters with bigger hit boxes like sagat and rufus. But I’ll go for cr.lp, s.lp, cr.mp, cr.lp>rekkas anyway.
However, if it works on Honda, it could be useful as the the s.lp whiffs on the crouching big fat bastard for some reasons.

EDIT: scrap the honda part. although the cr.lp connects after the cl.mp on a cross up, the first hit of rekka will whiff (if he’s been crouching).


#5

The combo I mention is not for crossups, it does not connect on any character, even the huges ones, it can be mostly used as a jump-in hit confirm combo.

I almost never do crossups agains SRK characters (it trades, no matter what you do, even j.MK, c.LK (c.LK trades with SRK, and it’s a 3 frame move). But with every other character I always go for:

j.MK, c.LK, c.LK, c.LK, s.LK (169 dmg, safe on block)
j.MK, cl.MP, c.MP (192 dmg, safe on block)
j.MK, cl.MP, Medium Chicken Wing (204 dmg, safe on block)

Or if I feel like I can take some unnecessary risks:

j.MK, cl.HP, Light Chicken Wing (226 dmg, safe on block)


#6

I like cl.mp. but if you hit the jump-in earlier than you should, there’s a hole in the block stun because the cl.mp is slow. thats one of the biggest risks of the combo.

and why j.HP for a jump in? j.HK or MP could probably serve you better.


#7

About why j.HP for the jump-in, I’m just used to that, you can use j.HK aswell or j.MP if you like, but this last move does 80 dmg compared to the 100 dmg that j.HP or j.HK does plus the link from j.MP to cl.MP can be reversed by a SRK of a shoto character and has less horizontal hitbox than the other two moves.

-EDIT- Oh ok I got the jump-in part.

I see that as perhaps the only risk of the combo, so I suppose you have to be careful and make sure you always land the jump-in hit (with either the opponent blocking or not) :slight_smile:


#8

which unfortunately most characters wont let you do that.

cl.mp is a good move though, I try to use it here and there.
its a waste of meter, but its a REALLY good move to FADC from. You pretty much get the same amount of adv, but youre in their face now.


#9

When I say “I suppose you have to be careful and make sure you always land the jump-in hit :)” I mean either the move is blocked or it hits, you have to be sure you time your j.HP or j.HK properly. If the hole you were refering is because the blocked stun of a blocked j.HP or j.HK to a cl.MP is small, then it’s not that small :stuck_out_tongue:

j.HP to cl.MP can’t be reversed or countered, hit or block, even not by a SRK, the only action your opponent can do is block if the j.HP has been blocked, or receive the combo if the j.HP has connected.

This is obviously one of the reasons why this combo is hit confirmable and safe on block.


#10

I think the “hitting low” thing is a bigger deal than its being made out to be here. If your opponent blocks the jump-in, there’s very little chance that he’ll be open for the cl.MP, especially if what TC says is correct and there is no gap between the jump-in and cl.MP for the opponent to react.

Assuming that its blocked, you get 0 chance to score damage; instead you’re only safe from harm. I think this is ultimately a matter of preference, but I believe that Feis should be aiming to do more damage, not just stay safe. With a blocked cr.LK, you’re at +0 and able to rapidfire cancel into more cr.LKs to push yourself out (assuming again, that TC is correct about being totally safe after a jump-in creates block stun). Yes, the cl.MP gives you +3 on block, but what are you gonna do–link into cr. LP Rekka for measly chip damage? You can score that randomly.

On hit, the damage difference is negligible, giving the cl.MP a frame advantage only. Apart from trying to confirm a Super, the cl.MP is functionally the same here. Sure you can combo into certain forms of CW with cl.MP, but who does that? I’d rather go for the Rekka.

[edit] As an aside, I use j.MP as you can use it much closer and much later for more ambiguous jump-ins. It also seems to whiff less on crouchers.


#11

When I said that cl.MP doesn’t hit low I meant that it can be blocked by a standing character, while c.LK can only be blocked being crouched. cl.MP hits every character of the game being crouched, including the small Cammy.

About if the combo being blocked having zero chances to score damage, you can chip damage with a c.LP, Medium/Hard Chicken Wing (invincible startup frames of this move will lend us a hand if needed) or just walk slightly forward after the cl.MP and go for a tick throw (unlikely, but sometimes it works), or try F+MK (overhead, -4 on block althought is quite difficult to be punished because of this move if blocked, and +1 on hit so you can start mindgames by mixing c.LP/c.LK, F+MK a few times), or jump for a crossup with j.MK (better not do this option against shoto characters)…

As I said I’m using it with very positive results, I didn’t get a counter/reversal or finished this combo in a punishable way ever since I switched to this, and cl.MP leads to some good options to continue on the offensive if blocked :badboy:

Note: I think j.MP is fine with some characters but I wouldn’t do it against shoto characters, it has a very small window of blockstun if blocked and you can easily trade a SRK with any next move you attempt to do as I said somewhere above, which in the case of Ryu means you’ll get the Ultra


#12

I tried the cl.mp>cw combo after a jump in before. From my experience, it doesn’t work too well. The lk version is punishable on block, mk version is safe, but put you in a 50/50 game, hit or blocked. Unless your opponent goes for grab, hk cw just wouldn’t work, especially if your opponent is crouching, not to mention it can lose to dp mashers, especially the ones with at least 2 ex bars to burn.

I’d say f.mk is a better idea. Just make sure you’ll be out of opponent’s grab range even if it’s blocked. But if you’re lucky, you might score a counter.

Maybe you can try to do a cross up if the cl.mp is blocked. Some players will be able to react and block it, yes, but not as many of them will be expecting a throw, or even a Tenshin afterwards. This works pretty well against characters without a quick reversal.


#13

That combo is very loose and easy to beat by DP mashers. The c.LP will link perfectly and keep you safe, but canceling the Chicken Wing won’t be. Towards the end of the CW start-up (the last 5 frames if you do the math), the opponent is able to move again and can easily mash a DP to beat the CW during its vulnerable state (since the invincibility will have passed already). Like your argument for j.HP vs. j.MP, there isn’t enough block stun on the c.LP to keep you safe for the CW cancel.

On block, LK CW poses another issue. CW is meant to get you in CLOSE. With -4 on block, this is a guaranteed throw, guaranteed SRK, or guaranteed light punch/kick combo. This is by no means safe, and very proven in both online and offline play to not be worth it. Go for MK CW at best, otherwise stay away from this combo as cr.LP> Rekka will be much safer due to spacing and less time to confirm when the attack ends (CW goes through 3 hitting animations, Rekka goes through one quick one)

As far as using cl.MP as a tick throw–NOPE. Walking forward telegraphs it for one, leaves you open for another, and lastly doesn’t provide enough + frames to make it a proper “tick” throw. With cl. MP you get +3 on block, which is barely enough time to link a cr.LP. This is definitely not enough time to walk forward the distance to grab someone. With s.LP> Throw, or even cr.LK> Throw, you have a 1-frame and a 3-frame throw respectively due to the +2 on s.LP and +0 on cr.LK. In both situations, you’re already in your opponent’s face, which is a better position than where the cl.MP leaves you. On hit, there’s no reason to do a tick throw since you already confirmed the advantage.

TC, if you have XBL please face me. I’d like to show you why these things won’t work.

And finally, regarding the j.MP: Yea, if it’s blocked you don’t get much wiggle room to launch another attack, but you do have the option of blocking or backdashing X-D Matter of preference I suppose, but I find it better for keeping Fei less predictable up close.


#14

Sorry, I’d like a lot to face you and see your theories in action so we can compare them with mines, but I play SFIV on PC… GFWL Vaarp… and I’m still using this combo as my bnb for jumping in, with good results :slight_smile:

I’ve added to my playing style a ‘fake jumping in’ (I’ve seen other people doing it), consisting of jumping in without a j.HP/HK and following by a hit confirmable combo c.LK, c.LK, s.LP, c.LP, Rekka x3. As they’re expecting to be hit high, if the c.LK connects is most likely because you’ve catched them in a stand up position, therefore as c.LK hit low you can start the combo. If something goes wrong, the double c.LK leaves you a window to input the s.LP or not.


#15

u shud get into a tourney to really test ur theories…

i preferablly keep my links tight to ex tenshin if anything, it leaves the enemy wide open and can combo from st. hp >EX Flame kick or hp rekkas 3x

as for tenshin, its kinda tricky on how the character is… rufus… i use lp to be safe since his hitbox is really wierd…


#16

i’m no fei expert by any means but i’ve been using him alot lately as a secondary… i never liked the close mp hitconfirm after a jumpin combo… cause its less… um… versatile… you put all of your eggs in one basket cause the threat of throwing the opponent is less… too much push back.

also jumpins are usually blocked or you get hit… its pretty rare to an unblocked jumpin… maybe once a round or every couple of rounds at most, and usually for me its like 1 out of 6-8 jumpins… if that… and in the cases when blocked you dont want to push yourself out when you just took a big risk to get in, in the first place… imho

i dont tick throw much with fei of course, but i like having the option if i need it. i also dont really like jumping in with hard attacks cause of the pushback… feis best jumpin to me is his mp. i only use fierce if i’ve pre hitconfirmed the combo by perfectly jumpng over a badly placed fireball… not often that happens at a high level of play.

i like jump back fierce as a twitch AA and jumpin roundhouse when the opponent is far.

honestly that all might be bad thinking… i mostly jumpin with fei as a positioning tool… when my jumpin hits whether its blocked or not i run a bunch of different strings… if i thought the jumpin might connect i usually do a jab and then link it into another then cancel into rekka.

the only time when i use close mp is when i have full super stocked as that gives me an easy confirm into cr.mp into super. although i usually just confirm the jumpin and do a cr.mp right after landing… if the jump attack hit, i assume the cr.mp did as well and i just finish the super motion that i was buffering and press p.

i use the close mp when i want a different look cause my previous jumpins have been blocked and i want to do something different this time since i dont want to get too patterned… if you know what i’m sayin…

just my take.

-dime