EDIT: Charge characters and Focus attacks


#1

EDITED:
Similar question related to focus attacks.

Is it possible to keep your charge after a hit focus attack (dashing in after hit) and when do the inputs need to be?

For example, as guile i land a lvl2 fa. Naturally here i want to do as much damage as possible. If i have ultra and im on the ball i can land it fully even as they’re about to hit the ground. Often times, however, i don’t have enough charge for a cr.mp xx FK or the FK whiffs due to the reset after a late cr.mp. I’ve ended up following most fa’s with b.HK, cr.lp xx SB though that’s a tricky link as well.

Is this issue just lazy timing or is there a way to keep your db charge while charging a focus attack after you dash forward?

Original Post:
So as an intermediate SF4 player i get most of the basics of frame data of moves and such. However, when it comes to focus attacks i’m unsure. I’ll get to the point.

This is assuming the attacker has dashed in after the attack.

Who has frame advantage on blocked lvl1, hit lvl1, and blocked lvl2?

Does it vary depending on the character’s dash speed or even the FA speed?

Also (definite Newbie Saikyo question) what is the use of a non-FA backdash?


#2

Take a look at this for FA frame advantage/disadvantage.
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Street_Fighter_IV#Dashing

Backdashes for all characters have a number of invincibility frames right at the start of them; a well-timed backdash will allow you to slip away from any attack that doesn’t reach far back enough to still tag you. Exact numbers of invincibility frames for each character can be found in the table at that same link. (Forward dashes do not have any invincibility.)

Less importantly, backdashes also allow you a means of moving backwards without leaving the ground in situations when simply holding back to walk away would result in your character just standing around in a ready-to-block animation (say for example your opponent is spamming jabs a couple steps away from you).


#3

From the top of my head:

Chun is the only character with frame advantage after a blocked lvl1 focus attack dash cancel, being +1. Follow by Abel Bison and Gouken who are 0 block.

These numbers are based on how fast their dashes are and also all focus attacks have universal block/hit stun. So it also works that chun has the fastest dash in the game, follow by abel bison and gouken whom all three have the same.

Backdashes have invincible startup, but this doesn’t mean they’re invincible throughout the whole backdash, just a small portion of the beginning. This portion is good enough to escape wake-up situations though, such as balrog low jab on wake-up. Some backdashes are better than others, basically because they go back faster and further (Chun and Gen especially).


#4

that was easy, thx guys. So this means a character with a relatively quick dash (fei long or abel) can use a lvl 2 blocked as an option to get in, but not so much for certain others.


#5

No no, it’s good that you asked. That’s what this new subforum is for! :lol:


#6

Those with the quicker dashes are better off but being at -1 like most of the shotos isn’t bad either. In fact, it can work to your advantage if you have an invincible move. eg. Ryu vs Ryu. If Ryu blocks a Lvl 2 FA and attempts to HP DP his opponent, then his DP will lose if the other Ryu does one as soon as he recovers. In fact, an HP DP after FA will beat most moves in the game, that’s why most players just block and prepare to late tech a throw, even though they are at +1.


#7

@ilitirit: i see. Whoever’s inv last wins.

Another random question related to invincibility and grabs. On frame charts, i see certain moves that are invincible on startup. Does this apply to being grabbed as well? So say gief downs a ryu scrub, can ryu wakeup srk out of a spd?

Also, say at the same time one guy does a lp (3frame startup) and the other throws (also 3 frames) Which wins?

Lastly, on the subject of reversals/aa’s and invincibility, ive notices some specials are more effective/get stuffed less than others (ryu’s srk vs guile’s FK vs vega’s flippy kick vs fei’s flame kick, etc.) Is this due different vulnerable areas of the hitboxes? What technically makes the srk better than other, similar attacks like gouken’s tatsu or blanka’s up ball?


#8

This just depends on the move itself. A move can have hit, projectile or throw (or any combination of the former) invincibility. Abel’s Super is a good example. The type of startup invincibility depends on which button you use to activate it. I don’t know which versions of SPD beat which versions of DP though.


#9

Any of Ryu’s SRKs will beat any and all of gief’s SPDs.

Also, SRK is such a good anti-air because it is fast as hell (3 frame startup) and has invincibility frames that cover the first few active frames on all versions of the move. Guile’s flashkick can be stuffed and safejumped because it comes out slower and doesnt have any invincibility frames covering it’s active frames. Same goes for anti-airs like Vipers HP thunder knuckle (which you will see trade alot). Vega’s flip kick actually has no invincibility at all(non ex version) so you can beat it with any meaty.


#10

If you input the dash before you release mp+mk you can then be charging before the focus attack hits, so you will be charged almost as soon as you have dashed forward (if your opponent crumples, you will be charged while they’re still standing).


#11

On dashing in after a blocked focus, Ryu is at -1 and Gief has an almost-guaranteed EX SPD that beats jabs, throws and SRK (it comes out in 4 frames so it hits the same frame as SRK and beats it). Ryu can beat it by jumping, but if Gief sees it coming he can neutral jump headbutt the fuck out of Ryu.

It was something like that. I’ll try to find the video that shows how/why it works, I just remember Renegade explaining it to me a couple weeks ago.


#12

As a Guile player, getting my FA into his BB combo is a must. What I do is I start the down back charge right before I hit my FA. If I nail them with it I tap forward and then down forward (like a quick double tap forward ending in a down forward) and hold it there for like, half a second before I go for the c.mp into flashkick.

If you’re really good, you can FADC into super or ultra, even if you nail 'em with your FA. The trick with that is holding the down back charge before and during the FA. Double tap forward and push the down forward position as the second tap, go down back and up forward+KKK to pull it off. There’s a bit of leniency with the charge and it can really be useful.


#13

I don’t really play guile, but I do play charge characters. After the fa, if you want to connect a special after the dash, the combo needs to be hit confirmed. For Guile, it would be c.lp, c.lp, c.mp, flash or boom. Should be able to do it with one less jab, but whatever works for you. You need the extra hits to gain enough charge since you lose it after the dash.


#14

Nope, you can do a naked flash kick after the crumple. You just need to buffer the dash during the focus attack animation and charge during the dash animation.

this thread covers it in detail: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=220959


#15

I get how you can dash or fadc while keeping your charge, i was just wondering if there’s a special way that on a hit lvl2 focus attack you could keep your db charge while you’re charging the fa. But it looks like the best you can do is start charging db immediately after inputing the dash, which is immediately after you begin the fa animation. Thx for the help.


#16

[media=youtube]Jv67HQg_JRM&feature=channel[/media]

I made this over a year ago on my SF4 arcade boards.

charging before the FA makes no difference. When you release the buttons to launch the FA there are a few frames before the FA connects. During this time tap F,F,DB. You will start charging before the FA connects. The dash is then buffered into this and you will automatically dash after the FA hits. Since you are holding DB, you will be charging for your special during the dash.

Dash > ultra/super works with charge characters because you have 26 frames to complete the motion for your ultra/super after you initially release your charge. There’s alot more leniency when doing ultras/supers than specials. All charge characters forward dashes are less than 26 frames, so that’s why they can do this.


#17

i see, so its just all about optimizing your charge time w/specials. Dash > super or ultra is tricky, but hey at least its possible. Just gotta refine the input.

Ive noticed to get better you have to refine both your physical (inputs), technical (frame data knowledge, knowing what works when) )and mental (strategy, mindgames) play.