El Fuerte General Discussion Thread

From a hard knock down, three characters wake up later than the rest of the cast:

Sagat/Cammy: 1 frame later
Blanka: 2 frames later

Also, I do something else for a 4 frame safe jump after Tortilla, but I’m not telling. I’ll give you a hint: I whiff one normal, and then jump in. No dashing.

I dont understand y people hide tech no one on this forum myself included is good enough to do that even if u r joking its stupid.

I’m not near my setup, but if I remember correctly, he is probably just whiffing st.jab and holding up forward.

Edit: actually…he did say “4” frame safe jump… so nevermind on that…
It won’t be hard to find the normal in question so i’ll figure it out later.

>low tier character
>hide tech
>mfw

Gib tech plz.

http://www.hitcombo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/frame-calculation-El-Fuerte.xls

This is Super frame data, but most if not all of it still applies. It doesn’t say how many frames the opponent is down after Ultra2, but I already made a video for that, which you probably did NOTHING with, as usual.

[media=youtube]qF_lHkB9eJ4[/media]

I’m reluctant to give tech, because… well why would I want to?

If this doesn’t level up the Fuerte community, I don’t know what will.

Let’s get something out of the way real quick:

Objection. Your information is appreciated and has been put to use and posted.

You tossed these vids my way back on October 23rd, where my lazy ass forgot to put them in, and I did, immediatley after you (thankfully) reminded me.

Y’all please PM me setups so I can add it. I DO work so I don’t always have time to check. It’s easier for me to check PMs and update accordingly to prevent information from getting lost.

Yes, Densuo, you got me there, haha. I do remember you posting those links. My badz. :wink:

I still question the use of safe jump setups like this. We don’t want our opponent to think, and I feel that if they learn our setups, we’ll end up at back square one.

Of course, I have yet to apply these to my game so I’m probably wrong.

I see where you’re coming from. But this is what makes me think about what Kai said when he gave up the mask when he lost his “I quit” match;

He hated how people didn’t think vs fuerte. There was no ph34r.

Hey if setups make them think, or ph34r with great f34r, it sounds like it’s time for shenanigans or more setups. After an ultra spark you get a free cross up anyway. So that’s two setups to think about.

Yes, opponents. THINK. Be smart and pay the price!

Ryu gets a 4 frame safe jump setup after sweep, simply by jumping in right away. Does simply knowing that he’s doing a safe jump make it any less dangerous?
My opponents knowing Fuerte’s doing a safe jump are less likely to waste their efforts on any 4 frame reversals, so Fuerte is simply taking away options. Throw in an OS, and Fuerte has just taken away another couple of options. There’s no going back to square one here, but rather we are transcending the gameplay. At least, this is how I see it.

When you put it that way…

I just wish I had consistent offline practice.

There’s nothin’ to it but to do it, man. Hit training mode hard, then start implementing it into matches, preferably when you have a life lead, but I’m sure you knew all that, haha. :wink:

We still don’t have any 3-frame setups do we? Akuma’s still gonna be a bitch to fight. Of course, with those AE 2012 nerfs, it might be different.

I can think of several setups that allow you to jump in on 3 frame dps, but your jump-in attack will execute earlier than they stand…Case in point, they don’t have to block you…but you can definitely bait those DPs safely.

The normal Razorshards was mentioning was whiffed RH after tortilla, then hold up-forward…your attack whiffs and you recover in time to block wakeup 3 framers. You can just hold up-forward after a fajita and block before a 3 frame reversal comes out if I am not mistaken as well.

Edit: By the way, shards…I abuse your setups… Even the low risk/low reward guac setup.

I can’t wait until my laptop gets fixed so I can go back and forth easily while practicing these setups.

By the way, has anyone tried to find a “safe” reset situation with the Throw-Crossup setup? I was messing with it earlier and if you the hit shotos out of their DP, they’re in an air reset. I messed around a little bit and only got DPs in the face.

You guys do know that when you do an empty jump, you recover two frames faster, right? This means that any 5 frame (or faster) SJ setup, with a jump in attack, can easily be turned into a 3 frame safe jump, if you do any empty jump. Thereore you CAN jump in and not get AA’d by a SRK, and thus be able to block the 3 frame SRK. However, as I see it…

There are three downsides to empty safe jumps (ESJ):
[INDENT=1]1) You can’t actually stop their wakeup move.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]2) Since there is no jump in attack, the usual jump in with OS (ultra, sweep, cr.MK, etc) are pretty much the window.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]3) There’s always that awkward moment when landing from an ESJ where you 're not sure whether to tech a throw attack, or what.[/INDENT]

Because of these downsides to ESJ’s, I’m actually getting to be more and more a fan of meaty ground attacks, i.e. my active frames hit them as soon as they wake up.

Technology: Meaty Setup from Back Throw
[INDENT=1]I don’t know about you, but I find myself getting a lot of knockdowns from doing back throw, because of this, I decided to will myself some Fuerte technology to use after backthrow. After back throw, I whiff a far standing Fierce, which kills 29 frames. After the whiffed attack, immediately do sweep. Fuerte’s sweep is normally (-1) after getting blocked, but because this setup allows him to be as good as (+8) after block. After that, apply pressure. Heck, standing fierce starts up in 8 frames, right? Hmm… interesting.[/INDENT]

Back to ESJ’s for one last thing . A long time ago, I made this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oGn2KjPM9M
Well, if you just do any empty jump, you’ll recover two frames faster and therefore have yourself an easy 4 frame Empty Safe Jump setup from forward throw.

Enjoy.:coffee:

[media=youtube]Mqf03aFIXO4[/media]

Sorry this doesn’t directly have to do with Fuerte, but I only made it because I was trying to figure out a safe jump against Cannon Spike, and was pretty confused as to why the one that MAKES SENSE wasn’t working. Enjoy.

The closer we get to that patch, the more anxious I’m becoming about this character. I remember listening to the podcast with David, Seth, and a couple of others who discussed what it means to balance fighters in a fighting game. And from their conclusion, there is going to never be any true balance. When they make the game, they made Street Fighter for the masses. They put tournament players in mind, too, but their only goal is appealing to a lot of people so it won’t be a boring game when played at your casual party or get together. The game was tailored for everyone to enjoy, which goes for most competitive games.

El Fuerte is one of those characters who won’t be competitive unless Capcom wanted him to be. They made this mix up, low health, high risk character to appeal to people who like running about, luchadora fans, etc. However, if he had the high reward similar to someone like Akuma, in that he has more reliable mix ups and safe set ups, then he would probably rise pretty well up the ladder. Instead, we’re stuck with exploiting very advanced techniques that don’t always work, such as the armor cancel U2, and the safe tortilla.

I’ll still play Fuerte, but never at a tournament again. Same for Hakan. He’s just too situational.

I just went to another local tourney with Elf. When I went to CEO I only repped Elf.

Fyi, I sub Gen. A much more consistent but otherwise unknown MU. My chances are much higher if I pick him, but it doesn’t change much.** Unless you really think you have a shot at winning, and your character choice will greatly affect your odds…Rep the mask or put it down brother.**

El Fuerte can’t be competitive without Capcom making him a completely different character, or by making him broken. It has nothing to do with what they want, but what they can give their fans what they want in a practical manner. Neither of those options are appealing… =/

Don’t ever think you guys cant win a tournament with el fuerte. I’ve won 3 tournaments and I live in NY, all in the last 4 months. I’ve gotten 2nd place three times. And I have landed in 3rd place about 9+ times.

It’s gotten to a point where I believe in me and my character soo much, that it bothers me just to get 3rd place, because I expect so much of myself.
Since my tournament wins, it only comes down to a list of things:

Trusting yourself and committing to your actions, Reacting and knowledge, playing patient and smart, and playing with passion, proving to yourself that your not scared. You want to learn how to throw out all emotional attachments to things like getting combo’d, momentum, time on the clock. Things like that dont bother me anymore, when you play with a low tier character…you’ve seen the worst of the worst happen. So now its just familiar. You gotta learn when to be really risky and sly against opponents if they are playing very solid. For example, if someone is holding there space down and reacting to splash…dont be scared to run stop grab from full screen or something like that. Learn how to use their reaction to run to set something up for the long run. If your getting overwhelmed, slow it down and do things you’ll never do, like stand still and just stare at them or walk forward from full screen for a little, or neutral jump, or whiff normals like I do. It kind of makes your movement unpredictable, and then you can go for something slick.

I just dont want you guys to give up, because in the end it’s not worth it. I know how it feels to think its the limitation of the character is the reason why your losing. The character just shows how hard you have to work. I know how it feels to wanna give up and switch. But idk, I just never been a quitter, and when I went back to fuerte. I told myself I dont want people to think things are how they really are, and that im gonna be the one who proves everyone wrong about the character.

Just dont give up guys, less weak-mindedness and more strength and passion. Just be sure you give it all you got, because when you do, you know what you need to improve on. No giving up guys, because a while from now your gonna regret not giving 100% to anything, even if its just a video game, at times, the work ethic you put in reflects on your personality. Just make sure you want to win more than the guy sitting next to you.

Happy Thanksgiving motherfuckers, see you in 2012.

also if you think your feeling nervous in a match, just hit your buttons harder. Your reactions go up, and your fear goes away. Thats what Sanford, Jeron, LuckyD, Chris Hu, etc. Do to feel comfortable in a match. later guys =) LOW TIER NO FEAR