El Fuerte Matchups and Strategies v.2 ***Updated 02APR10***

el-fuerte

#1

Reference Threads AKA stop making Dumb/Repeat Threads
Q&A
General
RSF
Matchup V1
Matchup Video
Q-Bomb

Disclaimer: This is not my work, nor am I taking credit for it. All of this is because of all of you. I’m simply condensing all the info.

Notes: Please PM me or something for additions or corrections. Just gimme some time to put everything down.

I am using US names.

Pending Changes:
Updating the Expanding your Game + Tricks section. Gimme input guys and gals

The Matchups

Abel, Akuma, Balrog, Blanka, Cammy, Chun-Li, Crimson Viper, Dan

Dhalsim, E.Honda, Fei Long, Gen, Gouken, Guile, Ken, M.Bison

Rose, Rufus, Ryu, Sagat, Sakura, Seth, Vega, Zangief

Expanding Your Game + Tricks

**The Run Down **

Normals

Spoiler

Normals UNDERLINED means they cancel into run

I’m missing some info here for some moves, PM me descriptions I’m missing / Corrections please.

s f = Standing Far
s cl= Standing Close
cr = Crouching
j = Jumping

~s f LP a poking chop
~s cl LP A vertical wrasslin’ chop. Great for block strings.
~crLP a quick poke, less range then standing.
~jLP a useless looking Judo Chop

*~sMP Fuerte slaps at you. Good priority, a bit slow.
~s cl MP a Muay Tahi Looking Elbow. LOOKS like an overhead, but its not.
~crMP Fuerte pumps a forearm sort of hit. startup ruins abuseability, good priority, cancels into run.
*~jMP a downward chop Good air to air?

~s f Fierce - Fuerte winds up and and throws a straight punch. Really Slow.
~s cl Fierce Inverted Slap (like one of my custom pimp slaps :smiley: ) this is the move you’ll be using for RSF. cancels into run, good speed.
~ crFP His Best Anti-Air Normal. Cancels into run(?)
~j FP The Macho Man Elbow. Crosses Up. ( I can’t do it well though.)

sLK a low kick, pretty basic
crLK a poking kick. LOWERS YOUR HITBOX for Tiger Knee
jLK a front kick that aims high, good air to air?

s f MK Generic front kick
s cl MK Sobat kick. does not hit over head
crMK a quick kick, farther reach the crLK, one of his better normals crMK has it’s own pseudo RSF [media=youtube]x77ibJ9Kk5w[/media] courtesy of our Vietnamazing Luchador, Buktooth Good run cancel, combos to super
jMK a knee move, not much reach.

~ Standing far HK (Dropkick). Two hits. One normal hitting, second hits overhead. normally it only hits once, but against Focus:

s cl HK Knee move, pops up opponent, perfect for Guacamole. crouchers will avoid(?) slow, only use for basic punishes.

crHK Slides, done at correct distance leads to free block string. don’t over use.

j HK El Fuerte Ass. use it with neutral jump to beat Bison’s Headstomps

Special Normals

Spoiler

Special Normals

MK > MK Target Combo - Shit’s useless, forget it’s even there.

f + MK (Shower Kick) - useful for hoping over downed opponents. Kills back charge for charge characters, can be followed up with a Throw or a LP block string.

Wall Jump - Best Wall jump in the game. Bar none. Fuerte has the only one that makes him ACCELERATE and CONTROL it’s distance. you can do it at anytime you jump towards the wall (it doesn’t have to be at the highest of your jump/ when going up) You can Airthrow, do normal moves and use Tostada / Fajita off it. It doesn’t go full screen so don’t even think about it.

Do not over use it. also, don’t forget, you dont have to use the tostada on it as an attack, use it as a getaway attempt.

Specials

Spoiler

GUACAMOLE PRESS!!!..Or some shit… whatever he says…

~ Air Throw Amazing priority. Frustrates noobs. Just see this, yes, it’s Guile, but the same thing applies. [media=youtube]tR53cbBRq9k[/media]

Habanero Dash ( aka Hab Dash, Run) :qcf: :p:
Fuerte Runs forward quickly. The run is not infinte, he’ll stop after x amount of time. Each button press after the run does something different. You can cancel into Habanero Back Dash at anytime.

EX Hab Dash :qcf: :2p: is the same except he flashes yellow, he can take TWO NON ARMOR BREAKER hits DURING the run, executing any of his options ends the Super Armor.

The following are his actions when you press the appropriate button during his Hab Dash

:lp: Sudden Stop. Fuerte stops on a dime. good for baiting or doing something else (hint hint).

:mp: Tostada Press Splash Mountain right here. Fuerte quickly jumps forward and flops onto the opponent, this knocks down, can crossup easily AND has invincibility on the way up( see Matchup Video featuring Akuma for perfect example.) This attack must be blocked High and can be focused or dashed out of. Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this, allowing even a crossup opportunity. Fuerte always rolls away from his opponent after landing regardless of direction.

:hp: Fajita Buster Fuerte jumps forward just like Tostada Press, however, it does NOT have the same invincibility on the way up as Tostada Press, but it can go a touch farther IMO, this is a Grab move therefore it can not be blocked. An opponent can escape with a well placed dash (that has in-air frames), Jumping, crouching, or DPing. This also knocks down. More damage then tostada. Use this against FA-happy opponents, during reset mixups or when you know it’s a sure thing (well timed vs fireball). Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this. Fuerte always rolls away from his opponent after landing regardless of direction.

:lk: Back Dash Fuerte stops the run and does a back dash. Not a half bad bait. This back dash goes WAY farther then normal back dash. Be Aware, there is a bit of recovery attached to this, unlike conventional backdash and sudden stop (recovery for sudden stop is totally minimal though) It also doesnt seem to have the standard Backdash’s invincibility.

:mk: Gordita Sobat El Fuerte hops forward and kicks similar to his cl MK. This move is FADC’able and can combo into Super.

:hk: Caramale Slide Same as his crHK, knocks down. Try not to use it by itself (aka naked) or overuse it, stick to specific matchup situations (IE Blocked forward Blanka Ball) as this can be focused, and recovers FAR slower then normal crHK

**Habanero Back Dash (Back Run) :qcb: :p: / :2p: ** Same properties as Hab Dash, if Fuerte hits a wall he will automatically do a forward Hab Dash (thus changing his followup inputs.) **For the EX version IT ALSO RESETS HIS SUPER ARMOR. Which means you can take up to four hits, the hits do not stack, it resets. You must understand this. BEWARE OF DEAD INPUT ZONE THAT SOMETIMES HAPPENS WHEN SWITCHING FROM BACK TO FORWARD DASH **

:lp: Sudden Stop. Same as above

:mp: Tostada Press Same as above

:hp: Propeller Tortilla Fuerte jumps backwards and then grabs, spins, and knocks down the opponent, the most damaging of all his Run based moves. Grabs Standing AND crouching opponents. Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this. The move recovers faster then you think, as in, before Fuerte even goes back to neutral stance. Take advantage of this, and buffer EX Guac, Jump back, Ultra, etc. More info about this move as follows:

NOTE: I respectfully request a write up explaing the naunces of the Safe tortilla

~Safe Tortilla Exceptions

Safe Tortilla Interrupt’s: Ryu’s Normal DP, Akuma’s Normal DP, Ken’s Super

Confirming: Ken’s Ultra

:k: Picadillo Jump Fuerte leaps into the air quickly great for escapes. you can not attack during this jump, but you can wall jump and turn the tables. a good escape move.

Guacamole Leg Throw :dp: :k: / :dp: :2k:

Fuerte flys up at an angle catching his opponent in the air and bringing them down to earth :k: strength determines height and length traveled. lk version is great for hoping over fireballs, escapes, and meter building. Do not use versus Beefy moves.

EX has GREAT invincibility frames, does EXCELLENT damage and owns just about every DP in the game.

DO NOT USE NORMAL GUACAMOLE on the following people:

Sakura’s jHK,
Ken/Ryu jHK

Quesadilla Bomb (Q-Bomb) Charge :k: / Charge :2k: for 8 seconds
Full rundown here

2 seconds:k: = lvl 1 DO NOT USE, your opponent has frame advantage on HIT
4 seconds :k: = lvl 2
6 seconds :k: = lvl 3 knocks down
8 seconds :2k: = ex version. knocks down, massive stun on counter hit

Fuerte runs forward chest out and rams into the opponent. It beats a lot of horizontal based attacks (like Hurricane Kick), loses to low and air attacks. Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this.. Be mindful of it’s startup, this move is extremely unsafe on block. Can be canceled into super. Level 3 requires Wall / HK super to land, FADC’able.

Super Move

Spoiler

El Fuerte Dynamite :qcf: :qcf: :k:

Fuerte does several forward Cartwheels, runs up into the air using his opponent like a stairmaster, then flops on him.

:k: strength Determines distance. :lk: for wakeup, :mk: as close anti-air(?) :hk: for juggles. IMO not worth using unless you have been totally destroying your opponent. Meter is more important for EX Run or EX Guac

Ultra

Spoiler

The Star of Death is Shining for you…FLYINGGGG GIGA BUSTERRRRR!
:qcf: :qcf: :3k:

Think Alex’s (SF3) Stun Gun Headbutt. Fuerte jumps in the air and if done right he lands on your opponents head, your opponent is too busy lookking up and being confused about what’s going on before being teabaged, reverse hurricanrana’d , then somehow leaps into the air, opponent still between his legs flicking his opponents legs behind him and grabbing them, then somersaulting forward slamming his opponent face/chest first into the floor. it’s only 2 hits so not much damage scaling here. Shit hurts.

Used mainly as a counter towards an opponent’s sloppy jump in. beware of mid-air altering moves (Shoto tatsu, Cammy’s Cannon Strike, Rufus’ dive kick).

Distance can be controlled with stick too. as shown here: [media=youtube]XKFDnZxfBRU[/media]

Just like pretty much anyone else, you can combo into it off a Focus Crumple

DO NOT DO IT TOO FAST, IF YOU DO IT FAST YOU WILL EX GUAC AND WASTE METER AS WELL AS AN OPPORTUNITY

Now for some words of Wisdom about Fuerte’s Ultra:

Combos

Spoiler

Combos

(:f: + :mk: / Max distance Crouching :hk: can lead off here) :lp: block String (Throw / crMK xx Run -> Mixup)

Pretty much his only block string.

These Three Combos should only be used in situations where the match is laggy, or if you are simply owning the opponent, the combos after these three are are better. or as Skisonic put it:

Jumping :hp: Close :hp: xx release :k:

Jumping :hp: Close :hp: xx release :k: :qcf: :qcf: :lk:
or
Close :hp: xx release :k: (It knocks opponent down) :qcf: :qcf: :hk: wall only

Moving on:

Juggles:

far :hk:, :qcf: :qcf: :hk: Very hard to time. Pretty tricky

far :hk:, :dp: :k: / :2k: Very hard to time. Pretty tricky

close :hk: wait till they start dropping :qcf: :qcf: :hk: Pretty easy actually.

Note: notice I put :hk: you MUST use HK or else it wont complete.

The good stuff
Close :hk: xx :dp: :k: a basic punish, perfect when the opponent is still in mid-air, recovering from something. (Blanka Up Ball)

Close :hk: xx :dp: :2k: same as above, far better damage.

Quick Super Combos
close :lp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
close :lk: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :lp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :mp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :lk: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :mk: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
close :hp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:

:qcf: :p: xx :mk: xx :qcf: qcf: :k: I think this is PERFECT vs an FA Happy opponent, right when they FA the Gordita Super’s startup invincibility should make’em pay

Close :hp: xx :qcf: :p: xx :mk: xx :qcf: qcf: :k: Quite possibly the easiest hit confirmable to super in the game. (thanks skisonic)

Close :hp: xx :qcf: xx :hk: The precursor to RSF and what you should end RSF with. can be done after a crossup Jumping :hp: or Focus attack.

~RSF Learn it. See the RSF Thread for Discussions and Full Details.

Combos that must be verified:

General Info

~ vs all Charge Characters:
~ Jump = no down charge
~ Forward movement = no back charge
~ Never go forward too long or you’ll risk eating back charge move

~Vs Fireballs
~Tostada press has invincible frames
~Ex run takes 2 hits. perfect vs ex balls
~ vs Akuma fire ball, you can take 2 and tostada through the third

Mentality

On playing Keep Away:

The Truth

On Patience:

Missions, Confirmations, and Challenges:

This Week’s Subject: TURTLING AND KILLING THE CLOCK

Your mission, luchadores:

For at least five rounds on your next day playing (doesn’t have to be consecutive) Get the life lead… then turtle the shit out of them. IF they screw up royally, punish them and if you feel the win coming by all means, go for it, but the challenge here is to focus on turtling, or rather, killing the clock and running away then being the aggresor.

Required Info:
Opponent: (Example, Ryu)
Jot down the time of KO if it is a KO, win or lose and by what (example Won round 2 via Airthrow).
If by time out see the difference in life

Try to mention what was done, and what you focused on, what mistakes if any you did
See if the opponent exhibited any patterns or did anything in particular, any glaring mistakes that you capitalized on

Bonus points is opponent Rage Quits
2x bonus points if you get rage mail

RAGE MAIL GET!1!
Akashwan after turtling a Honda.

FutureLion


#2

Page 2 of Stragtegies and Matchups

Abel

Spoiler

Abel
~ Fuerte Airthrow is beat by his j.HP
~ Abel’s Ultra gets owned by slide (Props to Pestazoid), and low attacks in general.
~ Falling Sky can grab you out of Tostada Press/ Fajita Buster /Tortilla
~ He has poor AA sans Falling Sky, look to cross up
~ Quesadilla Bomb beats Wheel Kick, it starts off slow enough to counter on reaction. So does a well placed Back Run xx Tortilla
~ Wheel Kick is his Armor Breaker. If the correct strength is used it is generally safe on block.
~ Always be looking for his Marsielles Roll to get an easy throw.
~Tornado Throw has throw immunity on activation, EX Tornado Throw has hit immunity on activation.

  • Pay Attention to his meter, EX Change Of Direction (aka his rekkas) has a hit of super armor

Ultra Setups:

[LIST]
[]After properly guessing his Change of Direction combo.
[
]During Marseilles Roll when he is just passing you.
[]Ultra is immune to Falling Sky
[
]After blocked or whiffed Wheel Kick.
[*]After blocked or whiffed Heartless (Super) and Soulless (Ultra)
[/LIST]

Akuma

Spoiler

DIE ONE THOUSAND DEATHS DEATHS DE-DE-DEATHS!

~ Stay out of the corner
~ Stay out of the corner
~ You WILL eat Demon if he blocks Q-Bomb.
~ EX run can be used to get through Air Fireball. watch the timing.
~ EX Guacamole his ass if he goes for Any air fireball
~ Demon Flip’s Sweep, if you see it, Ultra that, or at least FA -> Punish
~ His Double Roundhouse pressure is very troubling… be patient and keep yourself out the corner.
~ Random Demon? Are you calm? Ultra that shit. Not calm? Neutral jump, beatdown.

Quotable

Ultra Setups:

[LIST]
[]After any projectile is fired from the right distance.
[
]After teleport, but this is difficult because you?ll be guessing which way he?ll go.
[]After he reaches the peak of his Hyakkishu (Demon Flip). Warning, his kick and punch attacks post Demon Flip can kill the Ultra. You may be better off countering it with Guacamole Slew.
[
]After jumping over Raging Demon (Super) and Wrath of the Raging Demon (Ultra)
[/LIST]

Balrog

Spoiler

[media=youtube]QUpUMsr2y-g[/media]

~ Don?t jump in on him recklessly, his AA is solid. FIENT more forward Run xx lp or lk

~TAP (Turn Around Punch) is his Armor Breaker. So is the Overhead Dash Punch. Don’t be afraid to EX run and slide him for the knockdown or Focus if you feel you got this guy figured out.

~Headbutt is annoying as hell. and they love doing it during a back run wait till it stops going up to counter

~Knock him down? CORPSE HOP with Forward + MK

This has been confirmed. Be mindful of the distance due to Q-Bomb start up. (Thanks Munchi)

Ultra Setups:

Basically, for all his specials, you need to master doing your Ultra on a Reversal. Some only give you a few frames, but there are some that will give you more. The same goes for his Super and Ultra, but you have more time if you dodge them.

Bait a Headbutt.

Dash Punches can be Ultra’d on Reaction, did it myself today repeatedly

Blanka

Spoiler

Rollin’ wit teh Blanka

[media=youtube]w3QNE6gybSk&feature=related"[/media]

[media=youtube]YA-sQ2S56LY"[/media]

Let’s get one thing clear. YOU MUST DODGE HIS ULTRA

~Up ball is kinda a breaker for your wake up game

~His command dash is annoying as hell and can repeatedly switch sides on you, he counts as being in the air so you can’t throw him

~ If he slides too close to you THROW HIM.

Countering his tools
~ Tortilla Beats Electricity All day
~ The instant you block a Blanka Ball Run xx Slide him!
~ Rainbow Ball is an obvious of a Crossup attempt. Don’t confuse yourself, Focus it, dash forward, and punish him with Guacamole, Ultra or slide.
~ His command Dash can be tricky. Look to Block/Tech. especially at close range.

for crossup happy Blanka:

Personal Testing: Lots of Blanka players love throwing lp Blanka Balls which, at mid -long range is slow enough to react to, go far enough to stop in front of you I think this may be a good time to Q-Bomb his ass and make’em stop that and commit to

[LIST]
[]After blocked Vertical Roll
[
]After whiffed Backstep Roll falls or just as he?s landing
[]During Electric Thunder
[
]After blocked High Amazon Run
[]After blocked Ground Shave Roll (Super)
[
]After blocked Lightning Cannonball (Ultra). Must be activated once he?s falling.
[*]Note, once the super or ultra is blocked (when the roll is on the ground), you can return the stick to neutral.
[/LIST]

Cammy

Spoiler

Cammy

[media=youtube]MqJK4xYr_Nc[/media] Halcyonryu vs a G1 Cammy

Quotable

~ Spiral Arrows are safe from the right distances (They’ll hit for chip damage once), and can be linked into her cannon spike. Block and look to tech throws. If the Cammy player does it wrong (you block two hits), Punish her QUICKLY. Before I mentioned if you saw it coming to Tostada /Tortilla her if you see it coming, then I found out the hard way:

~ Cannon Spike Kinda ruins your options on her wake up. On that note, be sure to faint plenty of times and bait her. Cannon Spike’s recovery time is horrid, any whiffed Cannon Spike = hardcore punish. as the video shows, you can safe tortilla as far as having her fly past you.

~ Cannon Strike. I tried countering a Cannon Strike I saw coming with Run Back Tortilla and ate Ultra, I tried it again with Ultra and ate Ultra again. Until I see otherwise, this is a dangerous move due to her AMAZING recovery speed from this move. But remember this key fact, with the exception of the EX version, this move can ONLY be done when jumping forward. Regardless, this right here makes it very tricky to land ultra.

~ Hooligan Combination. This move can grab you out of the Air, or when standing. If you DUCK she can’t grab you, meaning she needs to cancel it quick, or go for the slide… but you were ducking already, so block and punish. You can also remove this from the game after you air throw her out of it a couple times. Yes that includes EX Hooligan. Air Throw her.

~ Spinning Back Knuckle (Armor Breaker) Great for fireballs, but USELESS against Fuerte. It’s slow as hell, if she uses this against you just jump straight up and beat her down, or run back tortilla/Tostada

~ Air Throw. She has one too. Throw her first.

Chun-Li

Spoiler

Chun-Li

[media=youtube]2JG4fdDZxsk[/media] Tetsu vs Nemo

Normals of note
jFP, FP This hits twice in air and KNOCKS DOWN and can be used to juggle. be on the lookout

Air throw. She has one too. she has other options in the air. Stay alert.

Wall Jump, she has one, but she doesn’t accelerate like Fuerte does. It’s floaty. Guac Early or Tortilla.

sMP Good poke, but very Good to Focus through.

Back + Mk -> Mk -> Down, Up +Mk , this is that little mini combo thing she has. it has recovery time. be aware of this and counter. If the player is dumb enough to finish the entire thing RSF / Punish

Stupid jump overhead and hit you from behind kick Obvious when she does it, Focus and dash outta there or just EX run.

Specials

Spinning Bird Kick (SBK) (Armor Breaker). This move is GARBAGE and you’ll likely never see it used. EX SBK is good at a wake up… but if you can bait it, then you can splash right in between her legs :wink: From the Chun board:

[Quote= Azrael]

EX SBK is probably her most stable/reliable AA option. It comes out quickly, has good priority, and does decent damage. EX SBK however is far from perfect…

If the jump-in attack comes in at a steep downward angle, EX SBK will flat-out LOSE. Some jump-ins that beat EX SBK include but are not limited to; … El Fuerte elbow

[/Quote]

Kikoken - Each Punch is a different version, Light = elegant stance, Kikoken goes far, is slow. Medium strikes a sentai pose, medium distance/speed, Hard = sticks dat ass out, quick, short range. If done from far range it helps her gain ground, but don’t forget, it doesn’t go full screen, if she does it at mid range, punish her, as she has LOADS of recovery. Be careful for the EX one at mid/close.

**Legs ** Not so useful for her, but EX Legs is a different story, and is part of her Bread n Butter combos.

Hasan Shu (Overhead flip split kick) Due to Fuerte’s slow normals I’m pretty sure it’s safe on block If she whiffs / you Focus it, she WILL pay for it. EX Version knocks down. You MUST block this high.

Ultra - Her Ultra can be seen coming a mile away and has horrible start up and recovery time, Both of these times are your best bet to Ultra her right back.

Crimson Viper

Spoiler

Crimson Viper

[media=youtube]Tl1t7VWqY8I"[/media]

Match up Outlook: Viper and Fuerte both have feints. Whoever can get the other jumpy is going to win.

Info from the Viper Movelist and Attributes Thread.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=175008
(Major Props to the Viper players, you guys are organized!)

~Viper can Feint her ALL Seismic Hammers (even EX) AND her Thunder Knuckles.

~Viper’s Thunder Knuckle’s pretty much the best Armor Breaker in the game it’s quick, has three versions, and can be Feinted.

~Be careful after either of her throws, each can setup a crossup with Burning kick jMK and jHK… but the good news is that Ultra and EX Guacamole beats it. PAY ATTENTION that does not mean INSTANT Ultra on her jump in. Burning kick can be done late as hell, which allows her to hover in mid air for just a bit, that can throw off your Ultra.

~ NO needless jumping, it can be punished with a well-placed Seismic Hammer
~EX Seismic fients has lots of invincibility frames
~Burning Kick will skip under low attacks
~Feint more. once you see and hear the gleam you have enough time to stop and jump hold the stick the way you wanna jump as you run so you can stop and jump immediately.
~Seismo Spam, just hang back and LK Guac for meter. you can always Focus it too for Ultra.
~Burning Kick can be Focused, Air Thrown (Jump straight up), or you can back run and see if Viper bites and goes for the move anyway (Tortilla).
~Anything done in the air can be guac’d or Air Thrown

Ultra Setups:
[LIST]
[]After blocked or whiffed Viper Elbow (Overhead)
[
]After blocked ,whiffed (during also) Double Kick
[]After blocked or whiffed Thunder Knuckle, Seismic Knuckle (during too), Super, or Ultra. You’re better off not countering the Thunder Knuckle and Seismic Knuckle attacks since they can be feinted.
[
]During Flame Kick (ground only)
[media=youtube]n9N1_zMDFT8"[/media]
[media=youtube]hCVfAkq6YEY"[/media]
[/LIST]

Dan

Spoiler

Dan Hibiki

His Ultra can be Focus’d. Initial startup has invincibility so don’t go all Gung-Ho when he’s sitting on Ultra, it can be used as a counter to a sloppy jump in.

Super Taunt can be canceled into Ultra. Do Not fall for it.
Dan Kicks will throw off Ultra
Dan’s Back dash has ZERO in-air frames. Use this to your advantage.
Not much Info here…

Continued here!


#3

Dude, thanks so much for this. Been waitin for someone to take initiative and condense the matchups thread. Keep on goin!


#4

Can I hug you? :lovin: this is great man, let’s spread the word on how awesome is our luchador. This thread will be very useful and encouraging especially for new comers. Good job!


#5

Haha I’m scared of some of the things that I might have said early on in the matchup thread. Some of my older posts I no longer agree with lol. Like the older posts on the blanka match I really don’t agree with now, use my most recent one as it I think sums it up pretty nicely. I think it would be best for you to parse the threads backwards instead of from the start since the most accurate information is going to be toward the end. I really don’t totally agree with my appraisal of rog either since his wakeup isn’t nearly as dangerous as I made it sound back then in retrospect.

It’s pretty cool that you’re going through the trouble, thanks man


#6

Thanks for going through with this.


#7

dude thanks alot …this is so dope… plz keep this up! :slight_smile: …quick (hope not too dumb) question? what is okizeme?


#8

Awesome. After browsing other forums and seeing a neat tidy setup for their matchup threads, I wished we had something just like it. Props for taking the time to set it up, Densuo.


#9

Awesome! I’ve been waiting for an updated matchup guide… it was becoming a pain searching every page for some old tactic.

In the Rog matchup, I know meaty wakeup slides are a good answer for headbutts, but which slide is it? Should it be a dash slide, a backdash cancel slide, a dash cancel slide, a normal slide… which one has the priority?

Lastly, if the slide oki comes in my favor, what’s the best followup?


Oh, and I wouldn’t mind a section for Ultra setups under each character, and if ultra vs. ultra wins.

For Rog, you can punish a dash punch, in progress, with ultra–never try to do a react ultra to his ultra, he wins.


#10

keep it up man, ill be looking into this =)


#11

one thing i found funny about the rog match up you can take 4 of his jabs with ex run in the corner im pretty sure that only works with balrog and maybe chun since they have the fastest jabs in the game


#12

If back run ends in the corner he will turn around and run forward. Yes it allows for absorbing 4 hits.


#13

No need to jump over Akuma’s Raging Demon unless you are in his face. Outside of throw range just mash out far HK and win. From further away just use ultra.

You can tortilla Ken out of his super :wink:


#14

brainz your avatar is the best avatar of all time


#15

May I suggest adding two things to avoiding Blanka’s ultra

  1. You can EX quac his ultra and grab him out of it.

  2. You can also use EX quac to escape it because of the invincability frames.

THEY MUST BE SPACED CORRECTLY THOUGH!


#16

Putting this out here since we don’t seem to have any, I have a fair amount of Gen experience against a few pretty good Gen players.

Gen:

If he does his off the wall kick (The one where he immediately flies off the wall towards you), you can land an Ultra on top of it. If you don’t have Ultra and are fairly quick at reacting, you can back run into Tortilla on top of him. Otherwise, block and throw him.

You can air throw Gen out of most of his off the wall moves (he has 7 options I think.

  • Can’t airthrow: Immediate kick off the wall, or where he jumps off the wall and then immediately goes back to the ground near the wal
  • Can airthrow: Any move where he goes straight off the wall - I think his options here are a kick straight down on top of you, kick to either side of you, or just a fly straight of the wall. If you can meet him in the air you should be able to airthrow.

Gen’s jump is very strange, and he has a slightly different timing on his jump depending on which stance he is in. Trying to land Ultra on a naked jump is very risky due to this.

Focus attacking is super risky against any competent Gen, they will pull out hands almost immediately and break your armor. It’s really not a great idea, because they will probably get another m.K to hands out of it and take a nice chunk of your health.

Slides work well against Gen, safe tortilla doesn’t seem to work on his upkick but I believe you can do it to avoid him. Splash works but only on his far side, his upkick will beat splash if he guesses correctly or gets auto correction.

If Gen does his upkick and you block the first hit, immediately jump and airthrow OR jump and l.K - otherwise he CAN do the second kick of the upkick if you try to punish him from the ground. If he whiffs the first kick, then he can’t continue the sequence, but if you block the first one he can get the other 7 hits on you.


#17

Safe tortilla definitely works on gen’s upkick, or anything he does except ex walljump.

If you block the upkick, just wait patiently for him to hit the ground then rsf him, he has a lot of recovery. Getting hit by the extra kicks of the upkick would just be silly, just wait for him to come down.

Ex walljump is the bitch move of the gen match cause he can really escape any mixup with it fairly easily. Important to limit gen’s meter gain for this reason since if he has no meter and fuerte knocks him down it’s really really hard for him.


#18

Maybe I’ve always been doing the jump too late on the tortilla vs Gen, I know I’ve landed it properly before but the timing seems a little strange so I stopped trying it as often.


#19

vs Dhalsim – if he’s within range of your ultra midair and he’s already thrown his limbs out, you can go for it, just time it right since he has a lot of air time. if he didnt throw his limbs, he’ll definitely teleport out of your ultra attempt, then it’s time to eat j.hp s.mk lp flame combo. :shake:

if he keeps jumping back and tries to reaction fierce you when you try to chase him down, well-timed dashes or run-stop then ex guacamole will catch him when he throws out his limbs (dhalsim’s hitbox stretches along with his limbs, and ex guac will go through the fierce) :looney:

don’t run straight into dhalsim’s attack range. bait his limbs and fireballs, once he makes a bad mix of the two (hopefully he does :lovin:) you can wall dive hp, close hp to get in, finish it however you’d like for a knockdown

if he teleports behind you, quickly throw out a jab since normals always come out right, and it’ll reset them before they have a chance to attack. once he’s reset, any of his poke attempts can easily be crossup splashed, if he mk.slides then it’s a free splash (just steer it correctly to land right on him).

bait teleports on wakeup and quesadilla, throw, etc. if he has meter he might ex yoga blast against your splash, fajita, and tortilla, but if you bait that too then you can get another knockdown, and he’s one meter short of his super.

in this match, whichever player loses patience and walks into the unsafe zone will most likely be punished.

this goes for any jump back-happy opponents but esp. dhalsim: fuerte shouldn’t chase them because you’re running right into their trap. esp. dhalsim, he’ll jump back and hp a lot to gain distance. use my above strat against that if you have meter to burn. sit on your life leads and be careful not to gradually lose it by getting hit by limbs (i’m stupid so i always do… gdammit) if dhalsim loses patience, he will most likely teleport behind you, then you got a free up-close game, and like i mentioned above, you should always win it. :rofl:


#20

some info on the fei long match up chicken wing is kinda a get out jail free card for you mix up you can guac him out of it other options would be run back stop then crouch fierce or if you just late splash after the intial invincibilty frames then you will hit out him of it. On all blocked chicken wings he has the advantage so just block or you if think a throw is coming back dash out of there. most fei longs that you play this info you wont really need becasue ive only ever played one really good fei long named tsua on xbl.