El Fuerte Matchups and Strategies v.2 ***Updated 02APR10***

[Densuo]

As El Fuerte it is your task to irritate the other player.

Reference Threads AKA stop making Dumb/Repeat Threads
Q&A
General
RSF
Matchup V1
Matchup Video
Q-Bomb

Disclaimer: This is not my work, nor am I taking credit for it. All of this is because of all of you. I’m simply condensing all the info.

Notes: Please PM me or something for additions or corrections. Just gimme some time to put everything down.

I am using US names.

Pending Changes:
Updating the Expanding your Game + Tricks section. Gimme input guys and gals

The Matchups

Abel, Akuma, Balrog, Blanka, Cammy, Chun-Li, Crimson Viper, Dan

Dhalsim, E.Honda, Fei Long, Gen, Gouken, Guile, Ken, M.Bison

Rose, Rufus, Ryu, Sagat, Sakura, Seth, Vega, Zangief

Expanding Your Game + Tricks

**The Run Down **

Normals

Spoiler

Normals UNDERLINED means they cancel into run

I’m missing some info here for some moves, PM me descriptions I’m missing / Corrections please.

s f = Standing Far
s cl= Standing Close
cr = Crouching
j = Jumping

~s f LP a poking chop
~s cl LP A vertical wrasslin’ chop. Great for block strings.
~crLP a quick poke, less range then standing.
~jLP a useless looking Judo Chop

*~sMP Fuerte slaps at you. Good priority, a bit slow.
~s cl MP a Muay Tahi Looking Elbow. LOOKS like an overhead, but its not.
~crMP Fuerte pumps a forearm sort of hit. startup ruins abuseability, good priority, cancels into run.
*~jMP a downward chop Good air to air?

~s f Fierce - Fuerte winds up and and throws a straight punch. Really Slow.
~s cl Fierce Inverted Slap (like one of my custom pimp slaps ) this is the move you’ll be using for RSF. cancels into run, good speed.
~ crFP His Best Anti-Air Normal. Cancels into run(?)
~j FP The Macho Man Elbow. Crosses Up. ( I can’t do it well though.)

The following people are very difficult to cross up with jumping fierce, try it with caution as it will whiff often if they hold the right way to block it:

Blanka, Guile, Cammy

sLK a low kick, pretty basic
crLK a poking kick. LOWERS YOUR HITBOX for Tiger Knee
jLK a front kick that aims high, good air to air?

s f MK Generic front kick
s cl MK Sobat kick. does not hit over head
crMK a quick kick, farther reach the crLK, one of his better normals crMK has it’s own pseudo RSF [media=youtube]x77ibJ9Kk5w[/media] courtesy of our Vietnamazing Luchador, Buktooth Good run cancel, combos to super
jMK a knee move, not much reach.

~ Standing far HK (Dropkick). Two hits. One normal hitting, second hits overhead. normally it only hits once, but against Focus:

Some characters focus attacks are faster than others, though, and if they release it perfectly, the frame of the first hit being absorbed, they can trade with your 2nd hit, they are:

Dhalsim, Blanka

Then there are some characters whose focus attack stance makes them duck down so low, that the first hit will miss them. This technique doesn’t work on them at all.

Cammy, Honda, Sakura, Rose, Fuerte

If the character isn’t listed up there, then both hits are guaranteed against a focus attack.

s cl HK Knee move, pops up opponent, perfect for Guacamole. crouchers will avoid(?) slow, only use for basic punishes.

crHK Slides, done at correct distance leads to free block string. don’t over use.

j HK El Fuerte Ass. use it with neutral jump to beat Bison’s Headstomps

Special Normals

Spoiler

Special Normals

MK > MK Target Combo - Shit’s useless, forget it’s even there.

f + MK (Shower Kick) - useful for hoping over downed opponents. Kills back charge for charge characters, can be followed up with a Throw or a LP block string.

Wall Jump - Best Wall jump in the game. Bar none. Fuerte has the only one that makes him ACCELERATE and CONTROL it’s distance. you can do it at anytime you jump towards the wall (it doesn’t have to be at the highest of your jump/ when going up) You can Airthrow, do normal moves and use Tostada / Fajita off it. It doesn’t go full screen so don’t even think about it.

Do not over use it. also, don’t forget, you dont have to use the tostada on it as an attack, use it as a getaway attempt.

Specials

Spoiler

GUACAMOLE PRESS!!!..Or some shit… whatever he says…

~ Air Throw Amazing priority. Frustrates noobs. Just see this, yes, it’s Guile, but the same thing applies. [media=youtube]tR53cbBRq9k[/media]

Habanero Dash ( aka Hab Dash, Run) :qcf: :p:
Fuerte Runs forward quickly. The run is not infinte, he’ll stop after x amount of time. Each button press after the run does something different. You can cancel into Habanero Back Dash at anytime.

EX Hab Dash :qcf: :2p: is the same except he flashes yellow, he can take TWO NON ARMOR BREAKER hits DURING the run, executing any of his options ends the Super Armor.

The following are his actions when you press the appropriate button during his Hab Dash

:lp: Sudden Stop. Fuerte stops on a dime. good for baiting or doing something else (hint hint).

:mp: Tostada Press Splash Mountain right here. Fuerte quickly jumps forward and flops onto the opponent, this knocks down, can crossup easily AND has invincibility on the way up( see Matchup Video featuring Akuma for perfect example.) This attack must be blocked High and can be focused or dashed out of. Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this, allowing even a crossup opportunity. Fuerte always rolls away from his opponent after landing regardless of direction.

:hp: Fajita Buster Fuerte jumps forward just like Tostada Press, however, it does NOT have the same invincibility on the way up as Tostada Press, but it can go a touch farther IMO, this is a Grab move therefore it can not be blocked. An opponent can escape with a well placed dash (that has in-air frames), Jumping, crouching, or DPing. This also knocks down. More damage then tostada. Use this against FA-happy opponents, during reset mixups or when you know it’s a sure thing (well timed vs fireball). Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this. Fuerte always rolls away from his opponent after landing regardless of direction.

:lk: Back Dash Fuerte stops the run and does a back dash. Not a half bad bait. This back dash goes WAY farther then normal back dash. Be Aware, there is a bit of recovery attached to this, unlike conventional backdash and sudden stop (recovery for sudden stop is totally minimal though) It also doesnt seem to have the standard Backdash’s invincibility.

:mk: Gordita Sobat El Fuerte hops forward and kicks similar to his cl MK. This move is FADC’able and can combo into Super.

:hk: Caramale Slide Same as his crHK, knocks down. Try not to use it by itself (aka naked) or overuse it, stick to specific matchup situations (IE Blocked forward Blanka Ball) as this can be focused, and recovers FAR slower then normal crHK

**Habanero Back Dash (Back Run) :qcb: :p: / :2p: ** Same properties as Hab Dash, if Fuerte hits a wall he will automatically do a forward Hab Dash (thus changing his followup inputs.) **For the EX version IT ALSO RESETS HIS SUPER ARMOR. Which means you can take up to four hits, the hits do not stack, it resets. You must understand this. BEWARE OF DEAD INPUT ZONE THAT SOMETIMES HAPPENS WHEN SWITCHING FROM BACK TO FORWARD DASH **

:lp: Sudden Stop. Same as above

:mp: Tostada Press Same as above

:hp: Propeller Tortilla Fuerte jumps backwards and then grabs, spins, and knocks down the opponent, the most damaging of all his Run based moves. Grabs Standing AND crouching opponents. Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this. The move recovers faster then you think, as in, before Fuerte even goes back to neutral stance. Take advantage of this, and buffer EX Guac, Jump back, Ultra, etc. More info about this move as follows:

NOTE: I respectfully request a write up explaing the naunces of the Safe tortilla

~Safe Tortilla Exceptions

Basically in order to grab someone out of their reversal, 2 things have to be true

1. they have to become hittable before they become airborne(so no grabbing ex blanka balls, ex SBK’s, ex messiah, etc)

2. they must be less than this tall (------ to ride this ride, if the character is a tall character, you won’t be able to grab them, like sagat or seth. Not totally sure why this is. However you’ll still avoid it, which is just as good if not actually better.

Safe Tortilla Interrupt’s: Ryu’s Normal DP, Akuma’s Normal DP, Ken’s Super

Confirming: Ken’s Ultra

:k: Picadillo Jump Fuerte leaps into the air quickly great for escapes. you can not attack during this jump, but you can wall jump and turn the tables. a good escape move.

Guacamole Leg Throw :dp: :k: / :dp: :2k:

Fuerte flys up at an angle catching his opponent in the air and bringing them down to earth :k: strength determines height and length traveled. lk version is great for hoping over fireballs, escapes, and meter building. Do not use versus Beefy moves.

EX has GREAT invincibility frames, does EXCELLENT damage and owns just about every DP in the game.

DO NOT USE NORMAL GUACAMOLE on the following people:

Sakura’s jHK,
Ken/Ryu jHK

Quesadilla Bomb (Q-Bomb) Charge :k: / Charge :2k: for 8 seconds
Full rundown here

2 seconds:k: = lvl 1 DO NOT USE, your opponent has frame advantage on HIT
4 seconds :k: = lvl 2
6 seconds :k: = lvl 3 knocks down
8 seconds :2k: = ex version. knocks down, massive stun on counter hit

Fuerte runs forward chest out and rams into the opponent. It beats a lot of horizontal based attacks (like Hurricane Kick), loses to low and air attacks. Holding forward or back on the stick can alter how far Fuerte goes with this.. Be mindful of it’s startup, this move is extremely unsafe on block. Can be canceled into super. Level 3 requires Wall / HK super to land, FADC’able.

Super Move

Spoiler

El Fuerte Dynamite :qcf: :qcf: :k:

Fuerte does several forward Cartwheels, runs up into the air using his opponent like a stairmaster, then flops on him.

:k: strength Determines distance. :lk: for wakeup, :mk: as close anti-air(?) :hk: for juggles. IMO not worth using unless you have been totally destroying your opponent. Meter is more important for EX Run or EX Guac

Ultra

Spoiler

The Star of Death is Shining for you…FLYINGGGG GIGA BUSTERRRRR!
:qcf: :qcf: :3k:

Think Alex’s (SF3) Stun Gun Headbutt. Fuerte jumps in the air and if done right he lands on your opponents head, your opponent is too busy lookking up and being confused about what’s going on before being teabaged, reverse hurricanrana’d , then somehow leaps into the air, opponent still between his legs flicking his opponents legs behind him and grabbing them, then somersaulting forward slamming his opponent face/chest first into the floor. it’s only 2 hits so not much damage scaling here. Shit hurts.

Used mainly as a counter towards an opponent’s sloppy jump in. beware of mid-air altering moves (Shoto tatsu, Cammy’s Cannon Strike, Rufus’ dive kick).

Distance can be controlled with stick too. as shown here: [media=youtube]XKFDnZxfBRU[/media]

Just like pretty much anyone else, you can combo into it off a Focus Crumple

DO NOT DO IT TOO FAST, IF YOU DO IT FAST YOU WILL EX GUAC AND WASTE METER AS WELL AS AN OPPORTUNITY

Now for some words of Wisdom about Fuerte’s Ultra:

You should feel like shit when you do a random ultra. In this video ([media=youtube]c4-AiMHgpoI#t=51s[/media]) I felt like shit trying to catch the viper in a random ultra, it wasn’t on reaction I just threw caution to the wind and hoped it hit, it was stupid, and if you do something like that you ARE stupid.

I played a Sagat player named Combojack a week or so ago and he got me in the corner with his tigerknee pressure. I would die if I got hit by another tigerknee so I decided to do a random ultra. I caught his starting lk tiger knee frames (you could see the white around his knees) with my ultra and the crowd just boo’d. I was told by a high level player word for word “what the fuck is that shit, paper you should know better.”

BOTTOM LINE “Why the fuck would you do that shit?, you should know better”

Combos

Spoiler

Combos

(:f: + :mk: / Max distance Crouching :hk: can lead off here) :lp: block String (Throw / crMK xx Run -> Mixup)

Pretty much his only block string.

These Three Combos should only be used in situations where the match is laggy, or if you are simply owning the opponent, the combos after these three are are better. or as Skisonic put it:

my tip to all fuerte players:

STOP TRYING TO USE THIS MOVE IN COMBOS!!

Look at the data: At LEVEL 3 it does 150 damage/200 stun. That’s as much stun as a caramale slide. It does slightly more damage than caramale slide (50). Level 3 charge is 6 FULL second charge.

Why would you use a q bomb in place of a slide? El fuerte is going for stun, so the tiny bit of damage you get, 50 damage, is it REALLY worth holding a single button for 6 SECONDS, when you could’ve much much more easily combo’d into a slide? Or another run fierce?

The qbomb (in combos) is only there for the extreme end of flash, or the extreme end of ease.

Jumping :hp: Close :hp: xx release :k:

Jumping :hp: Close :hp: xx release :k: :qcf: :qcf: :lk:
or
Close :hp: xx release :k: (It knocks opponent down) :qcf: :qcf: :hk: wall only

Moving on:

Juggles:

far :hk:, :qcf: :qcf: :hk: Very hard to time. Pretty tricky

far :hk:, :dp: :k: / :2k: Very hard to time. Pretty tricky

close :hk: wait till they start dropping :qcf: :qcf: :hk: Pretty easy actually.

Note: notice I put :hk: you MUST use HK or else it wont complete.

The good stuff
Close :hk: xx :dp: :k: a basic punish, perfect when the opponent is still in mid-air, recovering from something. (Blanka Up Ball)

Close :hk: xx :dp: :2k: same as above, far better damage.

Quick Super Combos
close :lp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
close :lk: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :lp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :mp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :lk: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
crouching :mk: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:
close :hp: xx :qcf: :qcf: :k:

:qcf: :p: xx :mk: xx :qcf: qcf: :k: I think this is PERFECT vs an FA Happy opponent, right when they FA the Gordita Super’s startup invincibility should make’em pay

Close :hp: xx :qcf: :p: xx :mk: xx :qcf: qcf: :k: Quite possibly the easiest hit confirmable to super in the game. (thanks skisonic)

Close :hp: xx :qcf: xx :hk: The precursor to RSF and what you should end RSF with. can be done after a crossup Jumping :hp: or Focus attack.

~RSF Learn it. See the RSF Thread for Discussions and Full Details.

Some characters have an alternate reeling animation, where if you hit them with a fierce punch from a neutral position, it is really hard to start the RSF because the 2nd hit is very hard to land. Note that if you start the rsf off of a focus attack, or if you use it to punish recovery frames of a move, this doesn’t apply, only if you just hit them while they are just standing there. Those characters are:

Ryu, Ken

–

And theres lots of unique ways that people can/can’t be RSFed. These people can’t be RSF’d off of a jumpin fierce from the front, but they can if it is a crossup:

Fei Long, Akuma, Dictator, Rufus(can’t be done off crossup either for him), Sakura, Gen

–

The following characters can be RSF’d while crouching. Some characters aren’t listed even though it is possible, because their crouching hit animations make it very difficult and inconsistent.

Fei Long, Cammy(yes really), Gouken, Dhalsim, Zangief, Seth(but don’t end it with a slide, you’ll go right through him), Sagat, Claw(slide misses here, also), C. Viper, Abel, Dan(slide misses)

Combos that must be verified:

General Info

~ vs all Charge Characters:
~ Jump = no down charge
~ Forward movement = no back charge
~ Never go forward too long or you’ll risk eating back charge move

~Vs Fireballs
~Tostada press has invincible frames
~Ex run takes 2 hits. perfect vs ex balls
~ vs Akuma fire ball, you can take 2 and tostada through the third

Mentality

On playing Keep Away:

And running away with a lead with fuerte is an oft overlooked thing, I am glad mechanica brought up. You have a move, that moves you away from the opponent at high speed, which has 2 hits of super armor and can be canceled into anything at will. You also have a wall jump that rockets you across the screen. This character is designed to run out the clock

Alot of people think that fuerte has got to be played aggressively, this is simply untrue. He can run away and turtle with the best of them if the need arises. Fuerte players, if you doubt, next time you’re fighting some mundane pixie character like say cammy or sakura, just run away the entire time. Build meter with fullscreen lk guacs, ex run away from pressure, when you reach the corner walljump past them or ex run into them and splash yourself way way past them, not even trying to hit just trying to fly past them and get away. You’ll have people pissed in no time flat.

The Truth

Disclaimer: Everything I’m writing here is basically of the mindset that the other guy that’s playing is at least semi-experienced with the character they’re playing. If that’s not the case, you should probably throw your gameplan out the window and just wait for the other guy to kill himself. You can’t mix up a blind man, and you can’t out think a brick. Just my thoughts on the matter.

On Patience:

Thought I’d post this here, as I feel its more relevant to the matchup and strategy thread.

Managed to win 2 championships last night, nothing special but I’ve began to play Fuerte extremely patiently now waiting for opportunities, properly mixing up okizeme, and waiting for jump ins to ultra (some players jump far to much) and my results have improved dramatically. Usually before I’d just be charging in trying to land off the wall stuff and RSF, looking back on it no wonder my matches where so short.

And to top my night off I got my own bit of Hatemail from a Guile player I beat in the finals ‘‘Lucky Bitch’’ I just had to respond
’'Dont get sour! VIVA!" (I punished his wakeup flash kick with ultra, I didnt wake up ultra or anything :lol:)

It’s funny how Ive been playing Fuerte on and off for awhile now, and this only dawned on me last night…

have Patience.

I have the complete opposite of that story. i was at the arcade just beasting on this balrog got him to maybe half life , i ran back and turtled for maybe 10 seconds, there was nothing he could do. Well i got impatient and went on the offense, which eventually led to me getting ex head butt into ultra and cost me the match. so yea, HAVE PATIENCE:mad:

Missions, Confirmations, and Challenges:

This Week’s Subject: TURTLING AND KILLING THE CLOCK

Your mission, luchadores:

For at least five rounds on your next day playing (doesn’t have to be consecutive) Get the life lead… then turtle the shit out of them. IF they screw up royally, punish them and if you feel the win coming by all means, go for it, but the challenge here is to focus on turtling, or rather, killing the clock and running away then being the aggresor.

Required Info:
Opponent: (Example, Ryu)
Jot down the time of KO if it is a KO, win or lose and by what (example Won round 2 via Airthrow).
If by time out see the difference in life

Try to mention what was done, and what you focused on, what mistakes if any you did
See if the opponent exhibited any patterns or did anything in particular, any glaring mistakes that you capitalized on

Bonus points is opponent Rage Quits
2x bonus points if you get rage mail

RAGE MAIL GET!1!
Akashwan after turtling a Honda.

FutureLion

Managed to get the pictures, If any of you come across him on XBL, make sure you RSF him, hard.
http://yfrog.com/08hatemail1j
http://yfrog.com/4jhatemail2j

[Densuo]

Page 2 of Stragtegies and Matchups

Abel

Spoiler

Abel
~ Fuerte Airthrow is beat by his j.HP
~ Abel’s Ultra gets owned by slide (Props to Pestazoid), and low attacks in general.
~ Falling Sky can grab you out of Tostada Press/ Fajita Buster /Tortilla
~ He has poor AA sans Falling Sky, look to cross up
~ Quesadilla Bomb beats Wheel Kick, it starts off slow enough to counter on reaction. So does a well placed Back Run xx Tortilla
~ Wheel Kick is his Armor Breaker. If the correct strength is used it is generally safe on block.
~ Always be looking for his Marsielles Roll to get an easy throw.
~Tornado Throw has throw immunity on activation, EX Tornado Throw has hit immunity on activation.

• Pay Attention to his meter, EX Change Of Direction (aka his rekkas) has a hit of super armor

Ultra Setups:

[LIST]
[]After properly guessing his Change of Direction combo.
[]During Marseilles Roll when he is just passing you.
[]Ultra is immune to Falling Sky
[]After blocked or whiffed Wheel Kick.
[*]After blocked or whiffed Heartless (Super) and Soulless (Ultra)
[/LIST]

Well times slides are a nightmare for him. Slides go under wheel kicks if you wanna setup your range game; goes through his roll; beats ultra; knocks down, etc…

I got caught in a pretty good setup by a psychic Abel recently. When he’d get on the offensive (usually after a crossup MK), he’d do a few jabs and light kicks then immediately bust EX sky fall. This was getting me pretty consistently cause I’d try to back jump, or shower kick. I think Falling Sky is the main thing to worry about with Abel, besides getting caught in those MK->dash scenarios.

The abel match revolves completely around staying out of range of his towards + MK and don’t let him jump at you. Everything bad that he does to you starts from one of those. Whichever of you gets knocked down first is fucked

Akuma

Spoiler

DIE ONE THOUSAND DEATHS DEATHS DE-DE-DEATHS!

~ Stay out of the corner
~ Stay out of the corner
~ You WILL eat Demon if he blocks Q-Bomb.
~ EX run can be used to get through Air Fireball. watch the timing.
~ EX Guacamole his ass if he goes for Any air fireball
~ Demon Flip’s Sweep, if you see it, Ultra that, or at least FA -> Punish
~ His Double Roundhouse pressure is very troubling… be patient and keep yourself out the corner.
~ Random Demon? Are you calm? Ultra that shit. Not calm? Neutral jump, beatdown.

Quotable

I honestly think akuma is the hardest match in the game since if you have no meter the dude can just hit jab, roundhouse xn and you can never move again. The only thing you can do is backdash after a roundhouse, and whenever there is only one thing you can possibly do and the other guy knows it he will be quite ready to punish it. All he has to do is hit roundhouse again and punish your short little backdash and take half your life. I basically refuse to get anywhere near akuma unless I have a few ex stocks to punish his roundhouse. Fuerte really needed a long backdash to compensate for absolutely no fast normals, and he got the shortest one ever. You also can’t ultra akuma’s jump either. He just has to throw a fireball.

Ultra Setups:

[LIST]
[]After any projectile is fired from the right distance.
[]After teleport, but this is difficult because you?ll be guessing which way he?ll go.
[]After he reaches the peak of his Hyakkishu (Demon Flip). Warning, his kick and punch attacks post Demon Flip can kill the Ultra. You may be better off countering it with Guacamole Slew.
[]After jumping over Raging Demon (Super) and Wrath of the Raging Demon (Ultra)
[/LIST]

Balrog

Spoiler

I use my fight money to buy mexican food…

[media=youtube]QUpUMsr2y-g[/media]

~ Don?t jump in on him recklessly, his AA is solid. FIENT more forward Run xx lp or lk

~TAP (Turn Around Punch) is his Armor Breaker. So is the Overhead Dash Punch. Don’t be afraid to EX run and slide him for the knockdown or Focus if you feel you got this guy figured out.

~Headbutt is annoying as hell. and they love doing it during a back run wait till it stops going up to counter

~Knock him down? CORPSE HOP with Forward + MK

QBomb beats all of Boxer’s charge moves

This has been confirmed. Be mindful of the distance due to Q-Bomb start up. (Thanks Munchi)

so i dunno if this was ever posted yet… but when he trys to punish you for crouching in his mixups…(his overhead punch) he might as well forget about that option…basically you get an easy knockdown on reaction…cr.fwd stuffs it and from there you can: RSF (1 fierce to slide i have gotten so far)…Loop cr.fwd run away Loop another cr.fwd and run mixup

I lol at anyone who ever gets hit with a non ex overhead, as soon as you see the motion just jump straight up and then punish as you see fit.

El Fuerte General Discussion Thread

Learning to defend against balrog is sfiv 101. Stop pressing buttons. Be patient and wait for your chance to option select tech/ex run away. The only time you’re in real danger is when you’re cornered(like after you eat an ultra) or when you’re meterless. Other than the post ultra situation, you should be able to avoid getting cornered. If you do then you’re gonna get what’s coming to you.

El Fuerte General Discussion Thread

Recognize a pattern, bait out a head butt, punish with (focus into) RSF.

Ultra Setups:

Basically, for all his specials, you need to master doing your Ultra on a Reversal. Some only give you a few frames, but there are some that will give you more. The same goes for his Super and Ultra, but you have more time if you dodge them.

Bait a Headbutt.

Dash Punches can be Ultra’d on Reaction, did it myself today repeatedly

Blanka

Spoiler

Rollin’ wit teh Blanka

[media=youtube]w3QNE6gybSk&feature=related"[/media]

[media=youtube]YA-sQ2S56LY"[/media]

Let’s get one thing clear. YOU MUST DODGE HIS ULTRA

~Up ball is kinda a breaker for your wake up game

~His command dash is annoying as hell and can repeatedly switch sides on you, he counts as being in the air so you can’t throw him

~ If he slides too close to you THROW HIM.

Countering his tools
~ Tortilla Beats Electricity All day
~ The instant you block a Blanka Ball Run xx Slide him!
~ Rainbow Ball is an obvious of a Crossup attempt. Don’t confuse yourself, Focus it, dash forward, and punish him with Guacamole, Ultra or slide.
~ His command Dash can be tricky. Look to Block/Tech. especially at close range.

for crossup happy Blanka:

For crossups, usually focus blocking them then dashing away is the best option. You can also ex run under them. This is if you didn’t react fast enough to airthrow, which is the absolute best option imho.

avoiding Blanka’s ultra

1. You can EX quac his ultra and grab him out of it.
2. You can also use EX quac to escape it because of the invincability frames.
   THEY MUST BE SPACED CORRECTLY THOUGH!

Personal Testing: Lots of Blanka players love throwing lp Blanka Balls which, at mid -long range is slow enough to react to, go far enough to stop in front of you I think this may be a good time to Q-Bomb his ass and make’em stop that and commit to

[LIST]
[]After blocked Vertical Roll
[]After whiffed Backstep Roll falls or just as he?s landing
[]During Electric Thunder
[]After blocked High Amazon Run
[]After blocked Ground Shave Roll (Super)
[]After blocked Lightning Cannonball (Ultra). Must be activated once he?s falling.
[*]Note, once the super or ultra is blocked (when the roll is on the ground), you can return the stick to neutral.
[/LIST]

Cammy

Spoiler

Cammy

[media=youtube]MqJK4xYr_Nc[/media] Halcyonryu vs a G1 Cammy

Quotable

mostly for the same reasons that the rufus match is awful:

mixups on her wakeup are pretty much never worth it

• tortillas are countered hard by instant dive kick -> low fierce -> low forward xx drill
• splashes get focused -> dash -> instant dive kick etc.
• you can’t do relatively safe meaty slides against cammy like you can against rufus
• shower kick pretty much never goes behind cammys uppercut
• spacing cross up jump fierces seems to be way too finicky; will usually whiff

every blocked splash is punishable by low forward -> drill
her uppercut will pretty much always hit a splash, regardless of spacing
you cant aa ultra her much like you can’t against rufus; she just has to do a late dive kick get a big combo
cammys backdash is much harder to counter
cammy’s post-knockdown hooligan setups are basically guaranteed unless you have a bar
cammy drills can often be safe against fuerte since his punishment options suck; she has lots of ways to get in pretty easily against him
divekick offense beats up fuerte just as bad as rufus’

in fuertes favor, if cammy does a blocked, uncancelled dp you get rsf for tons of hits since cammy reels into it

~ Spiral Arrows are safe from the right distances (They’ll hit for chip damage once), and can be linked into her cannon spike. Block and look to tech throws. If the Cammy player does it wrong (you block two hits), Punish her QUICKLY. Before I mentioned if you saw it coming to Tostada /Tortilla her if you see it coming, then I found out the hard way:

Uh… nevermind on this… do this once in a blue moon, a smart cammy player earlier threw this out the window… dude did a light drill and when I went for Tortilla I got Ultra’d

He tried to bait the Tortilla again in a different situation, I back run xx WOOOOOOAH! which baited a Cannon Spike, THEN Fajita’d off the wall

~ Cannon Spike Kinda ruins your options on her wake up. On that note, be sure to faint plenty of times and bait her. Cannon Spike’s recovery time is horrid, any whiffed Cannon Spike = hardcore punish. as the video shows, you can safe tortilla as far as having her fly past you.

I have hit cammy out of her uppercut with the low roundhouse on many many occasions. There must be some sort of sweet distance for this that I haven’t bothered to nail down yet… I know you can’t do it up close but if you slide with the tip of your foot it seems to work albeit not totally consistently.

As for the crossup fierce whiffing, there are some characters that if they guess correctly and block the right way, the action of them pressing the joystick away from your elbow makes it whiff, but if they block wrong, it will hit them. Cammy is one of those. Anytime that the crossup fierce whiffs then if you’d spaced it to hit her front it would have hit, since she was just holding forward to make it whiff in the first place. This is of course a shitty problem with el fuerte’s crossup vs those characters since you aren’t gambling for free like you are with most crossups, if they block correctly then it’ll whiff and they get the advantage, and if you do a frontally aimed one to counter this then you are risking getting uppercutted.

Also if cammy uppercuts and you do the crossup, you will whiff each other, instead of hitting her out of it like you do with say sagat or ryu. So you have to have the presence of mind to run after her immediately and start RSF in that situation which I do not always have. Especially since I almost always option select something into my jump fierce to protect me in case it whiffs so if she uppercuts I’ll whiff a low short/throw tech or a backdash automatically most of the time due to this.

~ Cannon Strike. I tried countering a Cannon Strike I saw coming with Run Back Tortilla and ate Ultra, I tried it again with Ultra and ate Ultra again. Until I see otherwise, this is a dangerous move due to her AMAZING recovery speed from this move. But remember this key fact, with the exception of the EX version, this move can ONLY be done when jumping forward. Regardless, this right here makes it very tricky to land ultra.

~ Hooligan Combination. This move can grab you out of the Air, or when standing. If you DUCK she can’t grab you, meaning she needs to cancel it quick, or go for the slide… but you were ducking already, so block and punish. You can also remove this from the game after you air throw her out of it a couple times. Yes that includes EX Hooligan. Air Throw her.

~ Spinning Back Knuckle (Armor Breaker) Great for fireballs, but USELESS against Fuerte. It’s slow as hell, if she uses this against you just jump straight up and beat her down, or run back tortilla/Tostada

~ Air Throw. She has one too. Throw her first.

Chun-Li

Spoiler

Chun-Li

[media=youtube]2JG4fdDZxsk[/media] Tetsu vs Nemo

Specifically for the fight, a good chun is going to be exceptionally hard to bait an ex sbk against because she has other good options to resort to (backdash plays a key role in these), and she is harder to stun so she has to escape less relatively anyway.

I don’t really see how her lofty jump makes her especially easier to air throw or ex guac because in air throwing her you risk taking a significant amount of damage and losing all your momemtum, best way to catch her with the air grab is premptively and with those she could’ve grabbed you just as easily. That bit of the game I see slightly in chun’s favor. As for the ex guac, it’s nice but the range where the ex guac is helpful is not in the position from which you’re attacking. In my experience this means that you need to really bait/create an opportunity to land the ex guac so it’s like lowrisk low reward.

Specifically the fact that she can apply safe strong pressure with little effort is precisely what breaks fuerte down, as his weakness is no reliable defensive options. It doesn’t matter that she can’t do a lot of damage to you at once because she can do it safely over time.

In this match I really see El Fuerte’s ultra playing a big role. It’s really a game changer. Essentially, you only need to scrap evenly with her until she’s around 51% ish. Then you can just dance around and go for a lucky ultra. Obviously such a remedial strategy only works vs scrubs but I’ve won plenty of matches that way. Not to say that I haven’t owned many chuns just the same, but I still think that in the end she has the advantage based on the things I’ve said. I think the ultra is a very necessary tool for El Fuerte in this fight, something he needs more in this one than others, but it’s not a gamechanger to the point where it can tip anything in his favor. It sort of lets him play more of his real game, because at that point his run stops becoming threatening but before that, barely so.

Normals of note
jFP, FP This hits twice in air and KNOCKS DOWN and can be used to juggle. be on the lookout

Air throw. She has one too. she has other options in the air. Stay alert.

Wall Jump, she has one, but she doesn’t accelerate like Fuerte does. It’s floaty. Guac Early or Tortilla.

sMP Good poke, but very Good to Focus through.

Back + Mk -> Mk -> Down, Up +Mk , this is that little mini combo thing she has. it has recovery time. be aware of this and counter. If the player is dumb enough to finish the entire thing RSF / Punish

Stupid jump overhead and hit you from behind kick Obvious when she does it, Focus and dash outta there or just EX run.

Specials

Spinning Bird Kick (SBK) (Armor Breaker). This move is GARBAGE and you’ll likely never see it used. EX SBK is good at a wake up… but if you can bait it, then you can splash right in between her legs From the Chun board:

[Quote= Azrael]

EX SBK is probably her most stable/reliable AA option. It comes out quickly, has good priority, and does decent damage. EX SBK however is far from perfect…

If the jump-in attack comes in at a steep downward angle, EX SBK will flat-out LOSE. Some jump-ins that beat EX SBK include but are not limited to; … El Fuerte elbow

[/Quote]

Neat trick vs Chun: once she starts reacting to your tostada/tortilla with ex sbk, do the fake tortilla (run-back, stop, jump toward) and air throw that ex sbk.

Kikoken - Each Punch is a different version, Light = elegant stance, Kikoken goes far, is slow. Medium strikes a sentai pose, medium distance/speed, Hard = sticks dat ass out, quick, short range. If done from far range it helps her gain ground, but don’t forget, it doesn’t go full screen, if she does it at mid range, punish her, as she has LOADS of recovery. Be careful for the EX one at mid/close.

**Legs ** Not so useful for her, but EX Legs is a different story, and is part of her Bread n Butter combos.

Hasan Shu (Overhead flip split kick) Due to Fuerte’s slow normals I’m pretty sure it’s safe on block If she whiffs / you Focus it, she WILL pay for it. EX Version knocks down. You MUST block this high.

Ultra - Her Ultra can be seen coming a mile away and has horrible start up and recovery time, Both of these times are your best bet to Ultra her right back.

Crimson Viper

Spoiler

Crimson Viper

[media=youtube]Tl1t7VWqY8I"[/media]

Match up Outlook: Viper and Fuerte both have feints. Whoever can get the other jumpy is going to win.

Info from the Viper Movelist and Attributes Thread.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=175008
(Major Props to the Viper players, you guys are organized!)

~Viper can Feint her ALL Seismic Hammers (even EX) AND her Thunder Knuckles.

~Viper’s Thunder Knuckle’s pretty much the best Armor Breaker in the game it’s quick, has three versions, and can be Feinted.

~Be careful after either of her throws, each can setup a crossup with Burning kick jMK and jHK… but the good news is that Ultra and EX Guacamole beats it. PAY ATTENTION that does not mean INSTANT Ultra on her jump in. Burning kick can be done late as hell, which allows her to hover in mid air for just a bit, that can throw off your Ultra.

~ NO needless jumping, it can be punished with a well-placed Seismic Hammer
~EX Seismic fients has lots of invincibility frames
~Burning Kick will skip under low attacks
~Feint more. once you see and hear the gleam you have enough time to stop and jump hold the stick the way you wanna jump as you run so you can stop and jump immediately.
~Seismo Spam, just hang back and LK Guac for meter. you can always Focus it too for Ultra.
~Burning Kick can be Focused, Air Thrown (Jump straight up), or you can back run and see if Viper bites and goes for the move anyway (Tortilla).
~Anything done in the air can be guac’d or Air Thrown

after blocking mp thunder knuckle, you have advantage. this means if you do something fast, you’ll beat anything non-invincible that she does. standing jab is the safe option here, throw being the more aggressive option

the problem with throwing is vipers will often ex seismo in this situation, which leads to pain. just standing jab and go from there; the worst that can happen is that you eat a little uppercut

knock her down and mix up the crap out of her; her escape options suck

when i win, it’s because i was able to run and sweep while viper was hammer happy, and play the wake up game til i won. but once i was knocked down, no amount of EX bar could save me. usually. knockdown=win.

also, tortilla on her wake up works wonders, but dont spam, cause an EX hammer cancel will come out eventually.

if you miss a splash, its a free viper combo for her. i won a few of my matches though by doing full length fajita busters, so mix them in a couple of times.

bait bait bait bait bait bait bait. make her mess up cause fuerte is fast enough to catch anything she misses.

and you better know your frikkin rsf by now. no punishment is hard enough hitting than a few rsf loops. this goes for everyone fuerte faces.

Second post by sneakermaker

i really do play vipers on the daily. some more things that work quite well are run slides and focus attacks. if they like to burn kick on your wake up, it’s a free ultra. to make her wake ups more difficult, insert more meaty f MKs and far HKs. and again you better know your rsf by now cause her life will be gone before you know it.

I worked on tecniques to counter the most annoying attacks of C.Viper which listed below:

C.Viper = Fuerte
Seismic Hammer(EX) = Normal HK (sometimes two hit damage)
Seismic Hammer(EX) = 1 sec delayed Tostada
Burning Kick(EX) = Crouching HP or Absorb damage (EX) and Tostada/Fajita/Calamar
Everytime she jumps = Crouching HP
Jumping Burning Kick = Crouching HP - No matter if it’s high, medium or super delayed Burning Kick, if u don’t connect u have chance to start a combo when she lands

Ultra Setups:
[LIST]
[]After blocked or whiffed Viper Elbow (Overhead)
[]After blocked ,whiffed (during also) Double Kick
[]After blocked or whiffed Thunder Knuckle, Seismic Knuckle (during too), Super, or Ultra. You’re better off not countering the Thunder Knuckle and Seismic Knuckle attacks since they can be feinted.
[]During Flame Kick (ground only)
[media=youtube]n9N1_zMDFT8"[/media]
[media=youtube]hCVfAkq6YEY"[/media]
[/LIST]

Dan

Spoiler

Dan Hibiki

His Ultra can be Focus’d. Initial startup has invincibility so don’t go all Gung-Ho when he’s sitting on Ultra, it can be used as a counter to a sloppy jump in.

Super Taunt can be canceled into Ultra. Do Not fall for it.
Dan Kicks will throw off Ultra
Dan’s Back dash has ZERO in-air frames. Use this to your advantage.
Not much Info here…

Continued here!

[U-Volt]

Dude, thanks so much for this. Been waitin for someone to take initiative and condense the matchups thread. Keep on goin!

[akashwan]

Can I hug you? :lovin: this is great man, let’s spread the word on how awesome is our luchador. This thread will be very useful and encouraging especially for new comers. Good job!

[halcyonryu]

Haha I’m scared of some of the things that I might have said early on in the matchup thread. Some of my older posts I no longer agree with lol. Like the older posts on the blanka match I really don’t agree with now, use my most recent one as it I think sums it up pretty nicely. I think it would be best for you to parse the threads backwards instead of from the start since the most accurate information is going to be toward the end. I really don’t totally agree with my appraisal of rog either since his wakeup isn’t nearly as dangerous as I made it sound back then in retrospect.

It’s pretty cool that you’re going through the trouble, thanks man

[KumaOso]

Thanks for going through with this.

[Munchi]

dude thanks alot …this is so dope… plz keep this up! …quick (hope not too dumb) question? what is okizeme?

[GetThere1Time]

Awesome. After browsing other forums and seeing a neat tidy setup for their matchup threads, I wished we had something just like it. Props for taking the time to set it up, Densuo.

[Aoi84]

Awesome! I’ve been waiting for an updated matchup guide… it was becoming a pain searching every page for some old tactic.

In the Rog matchup, I know meaty wakeup slides are a good answer for headbutts, but which slide is it? Should it be a dash slide, a backdash cancel slide, a dash cancel slide, a normal slide… which one has the priority?

Lastly, if the slide oki comes in my favor, what’s the best followup?

---

Oh, and I wouldn’t mind a section for Ultra setups under each character, and if ultra vs. ultra wins.

For Rog, you can punish a dash punch, in progress, with ultra–never try to do a react ultra to his ultra, he wins.

[System_1]

keep it up man, ill be looking into this =)

[IIPeru]

one thing i found funny about the rog match up you can take 4 of his jabs with ex run in the corner im pretty sure that only works with balrog and maybe chun since they have the fastest jabs in the game

[Densuo]

one thing i found funny about the rog match up you can take 4 of his jabs with ex run in the corner im pretty sure that only works with balrog and maybe chun since they have the fastest jabs in the game

If back run ends in the corner he will turn around and run forward. Yes it allows for absorbing 4 hits.

[brainz]

No need to jump over Akuma’s Raging Demon unless you are in his face. Outside of throw range just mash out far HK and win. From further away just use ultra.

You can tortilla Ken out of his super

[Densuo]

brainz your avatar is the best avatar of all time

[The_Pestazoid]

May I suggest adding two things to avoiding Blanka’s ultra

1. You can EX quac his ultra and grab him out of it.

2. You can also use EX quac to escape it because of the invincability frames.

THEY MUST BE SPACED CORRECTLY THOUGH!

[FuriousJodo]

Putting this out here since we don’t seem to have any, I have a fair amount of Gen experience against a few pretty good Gen players.

Gen:

If he does his off the wall kick (The one where he immediately flies off the wall towards you), you can land an Ultra on top of it. If you don’t have Ultra and are fairly quick at reacting, you can back run into Tortilla on top of him. Otherwise, block and throw him.

You can air throw Gen out of most of his off the wall moves (he has 7 options I think.

• Can’t airthrow: Immediate kick off the wall, or where he jumps off the wall and then immediately goes back to the ground near the wal
• Can airthrow: Any move where he goes straight off the wall - I think his options here are a kick straight down on top of you, kick to either side of you, or just a fly straight of the wall. If you can meet him in the air you should be able to airthrow.

Gen’s jump is very strange, and he has a slightly different timing on his jump depending on which stance he is in. Trying to land Ultra on a naked jump is very risky due to this.

Focus attacking is super risky against any competent Gen, they will pull out hands almost immediately and break your armor. It’s really not a great idea, because they will probably get another m.K to hands out of it and take a nice chunk of your health.

Slides work well against Gen, safe tortilla doesn’t seem to work on his upkick but I believe you can do it to avoid him. Splash works but only on his far side, his upkick will beat splash if he guesses correctly or gets auto correction.

If Gen does his upkick and you block the first hit, immediately jump and airthrow OR jump and l.K - otherwise he CAN do the second kick of the upkick if you try to punish him from the ground. If he whiffs the first kick, then he can’t continue the sequence, but if you block the first one he can get the other 7 hits on you.

[halcyonryu]

Safe tortilla definitely works on gen’s upkick, or anything he does except ex walljump.

If you block the upkick, just wait patiently for him to hit the ground then rsf him, he has a lot of recovery. Getting hit by the extra kicks of the upkick would just be silly, just wait for him to come down.

Ex walljump is the bitch move of the gen match cause he can really escape any mixup with it fairly easily. Important to limit gen’s meter gain for this reason since if he has no meter and fuerte knocks him down it’s really really hard for him.

[FuriousJodo]

Maybe I’ve always been doing the jump too late on the tortilla vs Gen, I know I’ve landed it properly before but the timing seems a little strange so I stopped trying it as often.

[DJ_Divine]

vs Dhalsim – if he’s within range of your ultra midair and he’s already thrown his limbs out, you can go for it, just time it right since he has a lot of air time. if he didnt throw his limbs, he’ll definitely teleport out of your ultra attempt, then it’s time to eat j.hp s.mk lp flame combo. :shake:

if he keeps jumping back and tries to reaction fierce you when you try to chase him down, well-timed dashes or run-stop then ex guacamole will catch him when he throws out his limbs (dhalsim’s hitbox stretches along with his limbs, and ex guac will go through the fierce) :looney:

don’t run straight into dhalsim’s attack range. bait his limbs and fireballs, once he makes a bad mix of the two (hopefully he does :lovin:) you can wall dive hp, close hp to get in, finish it however you’d like for a knockdown

if he teleports behind you, quickly throw out a jab since normals always come out right, and it’ll reset them before they have a chance to attack. once he’s reset, any of his poke attempts can easily be crossup splashed, if he mk.slides then it’s a free splash (just steer it correctly to land right on him).

bait teleports on wakeup and quesadilla, throw, etc. if he has meter he might ex yoga blast against your splash, fajita, and tortilla, but if you bait that too then you can get another knockdown, and he’s one meter short of his super.

in this match, whichever player loses patience and walks into the unsafe zone will most likely be punished.

this goes for any jump back-happy opponents but esp. dhalsim: fuerte shouldn’t chase them because you’re running right into their trap. esp. dhalsim, he’ll jump back and hp a lot to gain distance. use my above strat against that if you have meter to burn. sit on your life leads and be careful not to gradually lose it by getting hit by limbs (i’m stupid so i always do… gdammit) if dhalsim loses patience, he will most likely teleport behind you, then you got a free up-close game, and like i mentioned above, you should always win it.

[IIPeru]

some info on the fei long match up chicken wing is kinda a get out jail free card for you mix up you can guac him out of it other options would be run back stop then crouch fierce or if you just late splash after the intial invincibilty frames then you will hit out him of it. On all blocked chicken wings he has the advantage so just block or you if think a throw is coming back dash out of there. most fei longs that you play this info you wont really need becasue ive only ever played one really good fei long named tsua on xbl.