El Fuerte Q&A! - First post updated! - Quick questions go here!

el-fuerte

#1

PLEASE READ THESE BEFORE YOU MAKE A POST ASKING A QUESTION. JUST SKIM THE QUESTIONS, I EVEN PUT THE SIMPLE QUESTIONS AT THE TOP

Q:

A: In order from best to worst, this is how you punish:
[list][]RSF. His fierce loop. See the thread about it if you don’t know what it is.
[
]s.hp, run, slide
[*]s.hk xx guacamole air throw (dp+k/dragon punch motion with kick)[/list]

S.hk is a very slow normal, so I put it at the bottom. You’re not gonna catch someone spamming shoryuken’s with this normal.

Q:

Yes, you can. As SOON as you are walljumping, press forward + MP for splash, HP for fajita buster. It can be u/f, f or d/f as long as it’s a forward direction and you’re pressing that and the button the moment you’re leaping from the wall. If you’re getting a punch move you’re not pressing it fast enough. It’s a good design so you don’t accidentally get fajity buster when you want wall jump HP.

Q:

A:
[list][]Tostada Splash (MP while in a run, or off a wall jump)
[
]Fajita Buster/Propeller Throw (HP while in a run, or off a wall jump)
[]wall jumps themselves have two distances (holding back and not holding back)
[
]ultra[/list]

Q:

A: No it’s not. The one use I have for it, is punishing things that recover low/crouching. For example, Cammy’s blocked cannon drill. It’s too slow to be useful really, and RSF is better in every way. No reliable way to combo into it outside of a stupid-deep jump-in (where you should fierce anyway, whether you can RSF or not) or a focus attack (where you should also fierce).

Q:

A: Yes. It’s very good. The only normal you want to use as an anti-air. (Other anti-airs are guacamole air throw, regular air throw, and run back propeller throw (hp).)

Q:

A: His FA has a lot of range - use this to your advantage to scare your opponent. Play around with it at max range, like a max range sweep or even a little further (you’ll learn the range). When it’s blocked you can dash in and do some f.lp pressure if they’re not an SRK-spammer. Or you can backdash and use the blockstun to try to run and splash or do a mixup or something. It totally depends on your opponent.

Notable times to use it:[list]
[]When you land a propeller throw (run back hp), dash once and charge FA to level 3. It’s great timing for a level 3 focus attack.
[
]When Ken lands from a whiffed ultra, he will be crouching and a s.hp will whiff. But he recovers for so long you can charge a level 2 focus attack to get him to crumple, then do your fierce loop or fierce into slide.
[*]When you block Guile’s sweep, use it on the second hit. Either smack him with it into whatever, or dash cancel into throw. I cringe every time I see people block both hits of Guile’s sweep with ANYONE.[/list]

Q:

A: You have the timing wrong. If you let go of kick in hit or blockstun, it will not release. It’s just like TAP with balrog, you never lose the charge without releasing the buttons. Also, an EX quesadilla bomb requires holding two kick buttons for 8 seconds. If you feel the need to use it, charge it during Ultra.

Q:

A: Take advantage of the fact that a lot of their anti-airs are moves where they have to be charging down ( you can tell if they have the charge - don’t randomly tostada press during this time). By this I mean they’re low blocking. Advance bit by bit with habanero dash cancels, and use more tostada press/grabs than slides, until they’ve been trained to try to block high more often than low. Corpse hop them with f.mk when they’re knocked down so they lose their horizontal charge. Every time you land a guacamole air throw, hop over them at least once with f.mk.

Q:

A: It takes a lot of practice to get used to him. You gotta start real basic, and especially on Live, assume someone is going to wakeup shoryuken EVERY time. Because they more than likely will. I would learn how to steer his tostada splashes on wakeup so that they crossup and land meaty, thus beating out or at least trading with shoryuken. Get one knockdown, and one tostada press. From here, most scrubs will mash shoryuken. Do a lot of dash stops with lp just to make Fuerte yell “huh!” and it will scare them into throwing a DP out. Punish with s.hp xx run-slide. Or anything with a knockdown. Try walljumps where you hold back right after you wall-jump - they’ll think you’ll fly into their shoryuken when really you’ll land short and get a free knockdown as well.

For blanka, habanero dash backwards and use hp, that throw (tortilla propeller?) beats out electricity. A lot of mid/low skilled blankas spam electricity this’ll beat it every time.

Runaway akuma - if it’s a lot of jump back air fireballs, a well timed wall jump into j.hp will break him of this habit, or rape him all match. If you land it while he’s on the ground, go for a knockdown. Also expect a LOT of shoryuken spam, akumas on Live do it even more than the Kens because they’re extra scared of taking damage. Try baiting with focus attacks that you just backdash cancel without throwing out. Fuerte has scary range on his FA, try to use it to your advantage.

For Guile, I’d say crossup tostada splashes are pretty good. His flashkick is not very good against crossups. If he’s spamming sweeps and you can’t get out, block the first hit, charge a focus to absorb the second hit, then instantly dash cancel and throw him. Free knockdown. Be careful of the damage you’re “absorbing” though, don’t let him hit you afterwards. Runaway if you have to, because if you see him throw a sonic boom and you wall jump, he won’t have charge for a flash kick.

Bison is a bitch, took me a long time to get used to this matchup when I started fuerte. I find personally that his run (backwards) into hp throw is pretty useful on bison. When he starts to get scared it is likely he’ll jump, so try to bait the jump and air throw him.

All in all, I would say learn to…

combo into knockdowns, which is essential to fuerte. The simplest ones are s.hp xx qcf+lp~hk (run xx slide) and s.hk xx dp+kick (guacamole air throw).

crossup and fake crossup tostada splash (mp while running, steer with back, forward, or leave neutral) running forward point blank splash with no steering will crossup, so will running backwards and using the splash steered forward about a character length away (sweep range-ish).

when using his throw out of dash (forget the name, but hp while in the habanero dash), use it while running BACKWARDS, it’s far superior. typically want to steer it forward for the right range.

Q:

A: Dhalsim v Fuerte is really nasty matchup. Fuerte mirrors and Fuerte v Dhalsim are just ridiculous. All the Dhalsims abuse jumping back hp. You can get through his pokes like this with EX habanero dashes. You have to have an appropriate punish in mind or you’re just going to eat extra damage though. Same with his fireballs.

If you are EX dashing through j.hp or other pokes:
[list]
[]if you can get close enough to hit lp and stop the dash, jump up and air throw him, that puts you in a good spot (dhalsim knocked down).
[
]you can also tostada press if you learn the spacing, but an airborne opponent can quick stand after being hit with the press
[*]stop the dash and EX guacamole air throw (dp+kick)
[/list]

If you know he’s gonna throw a fireball, EX dash into slide. There’s another knockdown.

Dealing with teleports:
wait for his teleport and throw out
[list]
[]c.hp
[
]guacamole air throw (dragon punch+kick)
[]air throw if he’s doing it high up in the air, not too likely hopefully, but if you see him jump backwards and he’s not doing anything, he may try this
[
]s.lp if he’s very close to the ground and you just need a quick normal to tap him out of the air (not something I’ve used)
[*]a quick j.hp from a walljump (for backwards teleports - and if he did teleport forward, you’ve reset the position by flying across the screen to the other side so he won’t hit you)
[/list]

when you get more used to the matchup, you shouldn’t necessarily be “waiting” for a teleport. don’t do a lot of “waiting” with fuerte or you’re not as scary. at least fake like you’re approaching or could wall jump at any minute. gotta keep sim on his toes…

If you don’t have meter, and you’re not knocked down and he’s throwing fireballs, habanero dash up close to the fireball, and tostada press over it while steering forward.

In this match, if you have to, runaway for a bit and maybe (optional, kinda risky) build some meter with lk guacamole air throw and fake dashes (:qcf: lp~lp) - frustrate the Dhalsim into approaching you or getting predictable with fireballs. This is where the various punishes I mentioned come in, which ideally will lead to a knockdown.

What do you do when Sim is knocked down? Meaty slide is great in this matchup. He doesn’t have a dragon punch (you know, reversal super might mess you up, but his f.mk overhead might recover in time to block it & it’s not safe on block) so it puts you in a good position, as you recover before he does if you time it right. I use more f.mk and meaty slide mixups than I do tostada presses or tortilla propeller throws. You have to show him that he can’t just jump backward on wakeup and be safe with a j.hp.

I need to fight more “good” Dhalsims with Fuerte experience to give really good knowledge - all the ones I fight are scared of me and jump back so damn much I air throw them about 8 times a match.

Anyway, after a meaty slide that is blocked:
[list]
[*] I wouldn’t go for a throw very often, because the Dhalsim player is probably going to try to throw you.

[] s.lp is your friend. Throw out several - it’ll combo if it hits, and if it’s blocked it’s a good blockstring (don’t just mash it though, learn the timing). You can cancel it into habanero dash, which I recommend more against Sim than doing a couple s.lp, then c.mk into dash. Either dash forward and splash if you suspect a jump, dash back and do a propeller throw if you think they’ll block… You gotta feel your opponent out - in your case the Sim is probably not scared of you (yet! :woot:) so there’s a chance he’ll just jump away or block, so maybe try starting out with habanero dash back, splash steered forward. Timed right it’ll crossup if he blocks, snag him if he jumps.
[
]learn to do a s.lp or two and walk a quick step up and throw when you’ve conditioned them into blocking
[/list]

If your meaty slide hits cross up with a f.mk over his downed body (corpse hop). From here you can: [list]
[]slide again
[
]f.mk over him again
[]f.mk later and actually hit him
[
]tostada press (crossup or not, but practice the spacing in training mode - again, sim is skinny)[/list]
or whatever else.

All in all, try to not be afraid of his fireballs, you have so many ways to blast through them. Save your meter for his EX moves as you need them in this matchup.

Q:

A: You have the timing wrong. If you let go of kick in hit or blockstun, it will not release. It’s just like TAP with balrog, you never lose the charge without releasing the buttons.

Q:

A: Well, you have to be psychic-ish and at least guess which direction they’re going to teleport. I tend to use f.mk on their wakeup as it gains me a lot of distance and right after I input a run in the direction I think they’re going to teleport. If I guess right, I’ll try to stop~fierce and go into RSF, or splash or slide for something simpler. Unless it’s an xbl akuma scrub who is going to teleport, uppercut, teleport, uppercut, then I’ll just run and stop. If I happened to run the wrong way, I’ll typically wall jump. Whether I hold back (literally, after the walljump) or not depends on the character (if I think they’re gonna throw out a shoryu or something stupid in akuma’s case). Dhalsim’s ground teleport isn’t that fast so I haven’t had a problem with it. Akuma’s is annoying.

It’s a shame you can’t cross them up with f.mk and screw up their teleport input :confused:

Oh, and why would you use EX run? Don’t waste meter on EX run in that situation, it’s not faster.

Q:

A: Yes. After a propeller tortilla throw (while running back, hp) on Boxer, if you slide on the ground it will teleport to the other side as he gets up. I think it works on others in certain situations but I forget… I will try to find out.


#2

Genius.


#3

Well the question was from one of those random topics but how do you punish charge characters?


#4

Take advantage of the fact that a lot of their anti-airs are moves where they have to be charging down ( you can tell if they have the charge - don’t randomly tostada press during this time). Advance bit by bit with habanero dash cancels, and use more tostada press/grabs than slides, until they’ve been trained to try to block high more often than low. Corpse hop them with f.mk when they’re knocked down so they lose their horizontal charge. Every time you land a guacamole air throw, hop over them at least once with f.mk.

Can give a better answer with a less vague question. Specific characters, or specific moves giving you issues?


#5

i use a xbox 360 controler, is there any hope of learning the infinite FP with it? ive chained 3 together…thats about it


#6

Elf is my fav. character but im having such a hard time playing ‘good’ as him…I play people on life i know i can totally own them, easy to read…yet i usually loose! Ugh i hate it…1st post and im b*tching :[ haha

Anyway, the characters i have the most trouble with include but are not limited to: Runaway Akuma’s, Guile, Blanka, Bison, Ken and Ryu…lol huge list i know…:frowning:


#7

It takes a lot of practice to get used to him. You gotta start real basic, and especially on Live, assume someone is going to wakeup shoryuken EVERY time. Because they more than likely will. I would learn how to steer his tostada splashes on wakeup so that they crossup and land meaty, thus beating out or at least trading with shoryuken. Get one knockdown, and one tostada press. From here, most scrubs will mash shoryuken. Do a lot of dash stops with lp just to make Fuerte yell “huh!” and it will scare them into throwing a DP out. Punish with s.hp xx run-slide. Or anything with a knockdown. Try walljumps where you hold back right after you wall-jump - they’ll think you’ll fly into their shoryuken when really you’ll land short and get a free knockdown as well.

For blanka, habanero dash backwards and use hp, that throw beats out electricity. A lot of mid/low skilled blankas spam electricity this’ll beat it every time.

Runaway akuma - if it’s a lot of jump back air fireballs, a well timed wall jump into j.hp will break him of this habit, or rape him all match. If you land it while he’s on the ground, go for a knockdown. Also expect a LOT of shoryuken spam, akumas on Live do it even more than the Kens because they’re extra scared of taking damage. Try baiting with focus attacks that you just backdash cancel without throwing out. Fuerte has scary range on his FA, try to use it to your advantage.

For Guile, I’d say crossup tostada splashes are pretty good. His flashkick is not very good against crossups. If he’s spamming sweeps and you can’t get out, block the first hit, charge a focus to absorb the second hit, then instantly dash cancel and throw him. Free knockdown. Be careful of the damage you’re “absorbing” though, don’t let him hit you afterwards. Runaway if you have to, because if you see him throw a sonic boom and you wall jump, he won’t have charge for a flash kick.

Bison is a bitch, took me a long time to get used to this matchup when I started fuerte. I find personally that his dash (backwards) into hp throw is pretty useful on bison. When he starts to get scared it is likely he’ll jump, so try to bait the jump and air throw him.

All in all, I would say learn to…

combo into knockdowns, which is essential to fuerte. The simplest ones are s.hp xx qcf+lp~hk (run xx slide) and s.hk xx dp+kick (guacamole air throw).

crossup and fake crossup tostada splash (mp while running, steer with back, forward, or leave neutral) running forward point blank splash with no steering will crossup, so will running backwards and using the splash steered forward about a character length away (sweep range-ish).

when using his throw out of dash (forget the name, but hp while in the habanero dash), use it while running BACKWARDS, it’s far superior. typically want to steer it forward for the right range.


#8

holy, thanks a ton for all the info! Ill have to start searching on what all certain terms mean, i understand lp, hp and all that (low punch, high punch?).

My worst enemy in this game is myself…i cant seem to block as well as other players…When i get them down i try to forward swoop med. punch as much as i can when they get up, i mix it up with backward swoop high punch here and there so its not so repetitive…

I need my little fightstick to arrive NOW…I already ordered my hori ex2 for the 360…but gamecrazy just got their shippment of mad catz SE fight sticks, i might just buy that and sell the Hori again…opinions?


#9

Ah yeah, sorry about that. Wasn’t sure how new to fighting game lingo you were.

Fuerte will be especially hard to pick up being new to street fighter in general.

qcf is quarter circle forward (the habanero dash motion) qcb is quarter circle back, xx is a cancel (you can do crouching mk canceled into habanero dash, lingo would be c.mk xx qcf+lp)

dp is dragon punch, the f, d, d/f motion, used for his guacamole air throw kick special.

focus attack/FA is the mp+mk move, you probably know about that. if you have other questions I’m down to translate, no need to search around, searching these forums is hard if you ask me.

The hori stick itself (the joystick) is inferior to the madcatz SE stick. But the buttons are better. This is how I feel about it. My madcatz SE stick has been having button issues (swapped a couple out with the 7th/8th buttons because some were getting sticky) but the joystick itself is pretty good for stock parts. Kind of a tossup. Either one would be good for you to start and get used to a stick on.


#10

I like the Hori better then the Mad Katz SE. If anything I prefer the Hrap’s instead.


#11

yeah i just decided a few min ago that im just going to keep the hori. But that thing needs to get here quick!!

also, this is the first SF game im getting into, and i love it for the most part haha. This game frustrates me like no other though…people on live…jeeeesus.

Anyway, thank’s a lot for the info guys. Ill be studying the acronyms and practicing moves haha. I killed a vega earlier and got my 1st hate mail as Elf “Wow broken char. but gg…i guess”, haha it was coool!


#12

Any Vega player is going to hate you because they are the bottom of the food chain. If the opponent understands how to block cross ups and knows how vega plays then they are shit outa luck. Maybe with a future speed update vega will be decent again.


#13

I need help against Dhalsim. Fought this one that would constantly keep almost a full screen gap between us and throw fireballs and then do the teleport-behind-you and downward HP. If you get a knockdown once, they’ll teleport as soon as they get up and repeat.

I suppose this is how they play against any character for the most part but i’m seriously stumped as to what I should do… I have a hard time getting the life lead since I can’t get many hits in.

I think I have a hard time against runaways in general. Not ones that are back jumping spazms but ones that are timing their backjumps and what not.


#14

it’s called the Propeller Tortilla and it is superior. i also think his Picadillo jump is superior as well.


#15

What are the thoughts an updates/patches for SF4? I’ve been playing SF and KoF for years but never competitively, and I’m wondering if patching is common, and if it will happen for SF4.

Really, I’m holding out hope they’ll maybe let El Fuerte take a couple more hits or do a little more damage.


#16

i have question about wall dive…

HOw do i jump to the very highest point of the wall? do i press lk, mk, hk? which one?


#17

^^I’m almost positive they are all the same height. What dictates how high you bound off the wall is how far you were from the wall when you started the jump/when you pressed forward to jump off the wall. If you jump off earlier you retain more momentum and go pretty far. It’s spacing and timing, not the button you pressed to jump backward.

Yyyyep. Maybe one day the hype will die and we’ll be left with less Ken players that do nothing but shoryuken.

You know, I went online for a minute today, and it actually made me download an update. It might’ve been for ranking stuff, I don’t really know. What I do know, is you’ll be holding out for a long ass time. Mark my words, they will not patch any character changes into the game.

Dhalsim v Fuerte is really nasty matchup. Fuerte mirrors and Fuerte v Dhalsim are just ridiculous. All the Dhalsims abuse jumping back hp. You can get through his pokes like this with EX habanero dashes. You have to have an appropriate punish in mind or you’re just going to eat extra damage though. Same with his fireballs.

If you are EX dashing through j.hp or other pokes:
[list]
[]if you can get close enough to hit lp and stop the dash, jump up and air throw him, that puts you in a good spot (dhalsim knocked down).
[
]you can also tostada press if you learn the spacing, but an airborne opponent can quick stand after being hit with the press
[*]stop the dash and EX guacamole air throw (dp+kick)
[/list]

If you know he’s gonna throw a fireball, EX dash into slide. There’s another knockdown.

Dealing with teleports:
wait for his teleport and throw out
[list]
[]c.hp
[
]guacamole air throw (dragon punch+kick)
[]air throw if he’s doing it high up in the air, not too likely hopefully, but if you see him jump backwards and he’s not doing anything, he may try this
[
]s.lp if he’s very close to the ground and you just need a quick normal to tap him out of the air (not something I’ve used)
[*]a quick j.hp from a walljump (for backwards teleports - and if he did teleport forward, you’ve reset the position by flying across the screen to the other side so he won’t hit you)
[/list]

when you get more used to the matchup, you shouldn’t necessarily be “waiting” for a teleport. don’t do a lot of “waiting” with fuerte or you’re not as scary. at least fake like you’re approaching or could wall jump at any minute. gotta keep sim on his toes…

If you don’t have meter, and you’re not knocked down and he’s throwing fireballs, habanero dash up close to the fireball, and tostada press over it while steering forward.

In this match, if you have to, runaway for a bit and maybe (optional, kinda risky) build some meter with lk guacamole air throw and fake dashes (:qcf: lp~lp) - frustrate the Dhalsim into approaching you or getting predictable with fireballs. This is where the various punishes I mentioned come in, which ideally will lead to a knockdown.

What do you do when Sim is knocked down? Meaty slide is great in this matchup. He doesn’t have a dragon punch (you know, reversal super might mess you up, but his f.mk overhead might recover in time to block it & it’s not safe on block) so it puts you in a good position, as you recover before he does if you time it right. I use more f.mk and meaty slide mixups than I do tostada presses or tortilla propeller throws. You have to show him that he can’t just jump backward on wakeup and be safe with a j.hp.

I need to fight more “good” Dhalsims with Fuerte experience to give really good knowledge - all the ones I fight are scared of me and jump back so damn much I air throw them about 8 times a match.

Anyway, after a meaty slide that is blocked:
[list]
[*] I wouldn’t go for a throw very often, because the Dhalsim player is probably going to try to throw you.

[] s.lp is your friend. Throw out several - it’ll combo if it hits, and if it’s blocked it’s a good blockstring (don’t just mash it though, learn the timing). You can cancel it into habanero dash, which I recommend more against Sim than doing a couple s.lp, then c.mk into dash. Either dash forward and splash if you suspect a jump, dash back and do a propeller throw if you think they’ll block… You gotta feel your opponent out - in your case the Sim is probably not scared of you (yet! :woot:) so there’s a chance he’ll just jump away or block, so maybe try starting out with habanero dash back, splash steered forward. Timed right it’ll crossup if he blocks, snag him if he jumps.
[
]learn to do a s.lp or two and walk a quick step up and throw when you’ve conditioned them into blocking
[/list]

If your meaty slide hits cross up with a f.mk over his downed body (corpse hop). From here you can: [list]
[]slide again
[
]f.mk over him again
[]f.mk later and actually hit him
[
]tostada press (crossup or not, but practice the spacing in training mode - again, sim is skinny)[/list]
or whatever else.

All in all, try to not be afraid of his fireballs, you have so many ways to blast through them. Save your meter for his EX moves as you need them in this matchup.


#18

With the quesadilla bomb as long as I hold down on the kick will it ever go away. sometimes I will go through the match normally, only using punches and jumps and ill let go and nothing happens. Do I just have the timing wrong or are there things that take you out of the charge?


#19

You’re just letting it go while still in hitstun or blockstun. I still do that sometimes. As long as you’re holding the button you don’t lose the move. Don’t get overzealous with keeping the move charged though - I used to lose matches that way. You give up either focus attack, throw, or hk guacamole throw, and you always give up ultra. All options you need defensively. Try to train yourself to let it go if you get knocked down, it’s an offensive tool.


#20

With Sim, I also really like to wait for him to teleport and then just mash Fierce.
If he teleports to the air, no problem since he can’t hit you with anything.
If he teleports behind you, then two things usually happen:

At worst, it will trade.
At best, it will beat whatever he launches at you.
Whichever happens though, you have the upper hand since Sim is still landing from his teleport and cannot do anything until he lands on the ground.