I feel I have to make this thread now, only because I think we all came to the realization that Elena just sucks overall, but if we even want a chance to do well with her or continue to be character loyalist, then we need to learn the Match ups as that will be our only way to actually overcome issues with this character. So feel free to post anything you know about her Match ups and what tools can help and what we should look out for. I will try to organize it as best as possible and will also contribute by going to the lab as much as I can to see what I can learn too. Granted I am not the best player at all but we gotta start somewhere, right? So feel free to contribute anything that can help at this point.
UPDATE: A lot of these MU are outdated so ignore most of them some are still useful but the majority is no longer helpful because Elena Hitbox has been changed since 1.04 and other characters received changes as well, She is still good but requires a lot more execution now than before to get decent damage and the new usage of her DP should be nice but overall All the MU experience I say is 5-5 or 6-4 or 4-6 are all different.
**Update: Sorry i got distracted by Smash and E3 lol so i just finished E and F, will hopefully move on forward and get more done plz remember feedback is important to get this done i can’t get all the MU done alone. / June 11th, 2014
[spoiler]- You can grab Abel out of rolls including EX rolls.
You can slide under wheel kick and then neutral jump for free pressure except for HP ver. Slide gets you back into neutral. Ex ver. recovers faster so Abel can punish all he gets is a st.HP I think will test more later.
Neutral j.mk is good here
-Abel can EX Falling Sky any Mallet Smash and even regular Falling Sky some on reaction, only use EX MS because its hard to react to but it can still be grabbed out of the air so be careful.
Don’t take the COD mix up if you block the first blow just EX DP to get him off you.
cr. HP beats all of Abels Air to Ground easy you could also use st.mp but it trades a lot.
j.HP trades or beats all of Abels Air to Airs on reaction
if you think your opponent likes to do wake up EX TT then after the knockdown walk back and do max range st. HK its throw inv. deals massive stun and also leaves enough space to react to an Ex roll where you just grab it, all other rolls are stuffed by max ranger st.HK
I think max range f+mk is just far away enough to avoid EX TT but if you’re even a milometer closer it blows you up
st.Lp and cr.MK from Abel just completely whiff on a crouching Elena, like by a lot make sure to punish accordingly
Either Ultra is fine in this MU i prefer U2 so i can heal after a back throw
SO apparently you can EX MS past Abel U2 on reaction. From what I see it just completely goes over U2 from any distance by reaction to U2 animation. It must be EX though nothing else. You can punish accordingly after the MS.
Personally think this MU is 6-4 for Elena, Roll pressure is hurtful, Abel hits like a truck, and Ex TT stuffs most overheads [/spoiler]
[spoiler]- Because of DP FADC is -5 now make sure to punish the dash in this is what I usually do cr.lp, cr.mpxx mk.SS
- st.MK is a good AA in this MU it hits all jaguar tooth except EX that one is very hard to time i recommend to block instead
- Air Jaguar kicks whiff on a crouching Elena for some reason, Like it just doesn’t register it has to be very low to the ground to hit and even on block you’re both back at neutral so punish accordingly
- J.MP actually makes a decent Air to Air in this match up, but J.HP also works but it loses to Adons J.HK
- Seriously most of his buttons just whiff on a crouching Elena. close st.lp, close st.mp, Far st.HP, Far st. LP, Far st. mk, close st.HK, nj. lk, nj. lp, nj. mp, nj. hp, Jump in LP, Jump in MP, Jump in HK. All these whiff on a crouching Elena 10/10 times. This leaves Adon with mostly low options which takes away most of his damaging combos. Punish the whiffs however you see fit.
- Either Ultra is Fine with this match
- I originally thought this was a 5-5 MU but after seeing all the whiffs this might be 6-4 for Elena. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]- EX RH punishes Air Fireballs or Ex Fireballs
- J. HP a good Air to Air
- st. mp a good AA here and so is cr. HP also sometimes beat demon flips into kicks
- U2 whiffs over a crouching Elena but only when done in place when canceled from teleport it will hit.
- Here are all the moves that whiff on a crouching Elena: nj. MP, nj. HP, nj. LK, nj. MK, nj HK, Jump in HP, Jump in MK, Close standing lp, Far standing HP, 2nd half of far standing HK whiffs just enough for a punish, Far standing LK, cr.HP and All Air tatsus whiff.
-Ultra of choice here pick either one or both
- This is another weird MU a lot whiffs so it might be a 6-4 for Elena rather than a 4-6 or at least a 5-5 because a whiffing far staning HP is a big deal for Akuma and Slide can whiff punish a lot of things and Elena can control the skys with RH so it makes it tough for Akuma.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]- Block Blanka Ball is a free slide
- From what i can see not many attacks whiff at all on Elena when she crouches so we will not rely on that for this MU
- Remember that Blanka lighting pressure can be stopped with a well spaced sweep or even over head as long as the hit box connects and your vulnerable spots don’t then you’re fine
- you can focus punish Blanka slide
- Honestly he doesn’t have very good range on most of his attacks or good frames even so cr.lp and cr.mp punish works great here even whiff punishes
- Blanka like to do hop pressure, you can try EX DP but it might whiff honestly i would say block or grab cause Blanka i face all like to go for a grab reset
- This MU really is just a basic match for you, make sure to punish properly and do not get mix up to often, Scare Blanka with over heads and LT is pretty useful in this MU
- Blankas who like to throw out lighting for no reason can be U1 it seems to take priority which is awesome considering how little priority the Ultra has but idk about EX lighting
- Max distance Hk SS can punish lighting too but it might trade or get beat out, EX DP can beat out lighting free because of inv. frames idk about EX tho.
- LT is actually a good move in this MU, lk LT at max distance or semi max can beat all lighting and mix Blanka up pretty well you can do the same with EX or HK LT but idk if you will get a follow up in mid screen so far no.
- Use only EX MS so Blanka doesn’t have much time to react to it that way you can get a good punish.
- Overall just play your normal game and don’t get afraid imo it seems like a fair 5-5 MU i wish i had more to say but idk much about Blanka other than he is annoying
Balrog i.e. Boxer
[spoiler]- From what i hear you can grab Turn punch out of its starting animation
- Balrog another charc where almost all his good moves just whiff on crouching Elena here the list. close st. lp, close st. mp, close st. hp, close st. lk, close st. hk, far standing lp, far st. mp, far standing light kick, nj. lp, nj. mp, nj. lk, nj. mk, nj. hk, jump in mp, jump in hp, jump in mk. Dash upper whiffs also but it kinda always whiffs on crouching opponents
- EX RH can punish most jump in
- EX DP can beat out armored dash straights but space it right, DP has a habit of only hitting once and then just whiffing the rest
- RH does armor break but i say stay away balrog will be crouching most of the time
- Because Balrog will be crouching a lot go crazy with over heads it will drive them nuts
- Be wary of headbutts into Ultra dont go in more than u have to you can win a spacing game at the mid-range with Balrog cr.mp and cr.mp is your friend and cr.lk for some frame traps too because it 0 on block and cr.lp is 3f
- J. HP is the same go to Air to air but i find J. lk and j. MK do a decent job too
- cr. HP is the AA of choice here but standing MK also works but it might trade
- His U1 kick version just whiffs on Elena when she crouches it except for the ender but u can just hit him out of it at that point, I believe punch version will still connect.
- According to Justin you can make Dash straight whiff if you low profile it with a cr.lk so thats good to keep in mind and the low recovery means a free punish.
- This MU is pretty straight forward control the neutral game, don’t jump (reminder to myself lol), out poke Balrog, overhead him cause he always down backs, and make him pay when he goes to the skies.
- Either Ultra is fine in this MU i recommend Ultra W as it gives you the most bang for your buck because Balrog then becomes scared of healing and might take the battle to you which is awesome cause he loses charge then.
- Overall i say this is a 5-5 MU even with all the whiffing moves Balrog punches hurt and if he gets you in the corner thats your grave right there. Elena can put up a fight and a good one at that.
Tips from Onemic
vs mid rush punch
- Rog’s mid rush punch loses for free to elena’s sweep. In fact if you stand outside of the rane of his lvl 1 rush punch and whiff sweep, it will never hit her. Her hurtbox becomes really low, even during recovery so even if timed too early and you’re recovering from sweep the rush punch will whiff. If you see a rog player trying to do mid rush punches from midscreen, you can whiff sweeps and it will either:
a. hit him for a hard knockdown
b. rush punch will whiff due to elenas smaller hurtbox
If it whiffs you can just block any followups he might do after or throw tech.
vs low rush punch
- A rog player might realize that Elena can blow up his mid rush punch for free from mid so they might try going for his low rush punch. Rog’s low rush punch beats Elena’s sweep for free every time, but! Elena has a counter for this move too. c.LP will eat Rog’s low rush punch every time. His low rush punch is also slow enough that you can easily react to it if done from midscreen, so you can buffer in a LT or try throwing out a c.mp after followed by an EX mallet
Anyone that plays a lot of Rog’s offline or on, try this out and see if it works when put into practice
[spoiler]- Lets start with what whiffs on a crouching Elena here, basically everything that matters to C. Viper whiffs… this is one of our few good MU because of this and we should take advantage of it full force
- Here are all the moves that whiffs: nj. lp, nj. mp, nj. hp, nj. mk, nj, hk, jump in mp, jump in hp, close standing lp, close standing HP, all air burn kicks will whiff if not done extremely close to the ground and on the ground Heavy burn kick will miss if done close to you and the light and medium will not whiff if spaced correctly. Also MP TK will also whiff on you.
- I admittedly have little MU experience with a good or decent Viper so i need a lot more people to contribute for this one, but so far the MU seems easy at least on paper.
- With most of Vipers tool just missing an opp who doesn’t know the MU will be careless and you just punish and if they do know the MU well then they know they have to take risk to get any damage and then you punish or counter poke them when they do take risk.
- st. mk seems to be the decent AA for this match but at the point where almost all the major jump in attacks whiff and burn kick i just recommend to block then punish.
- Justin pointed out that cr.mk into Medium TK whiffs which is important considering i see a lot of Vipers go for it so this should be your red flag to know whether they know the MU or not.
- J. HP is the Air to Air of the day like every day its just that good
- Honestly even when i say that this is a good MU for Elena its still probably 5-5, Viper has so many tools at her disposal that she can more than make up for the loss of the st.HP and besides we wont be crouching 24/7, but if we find some new tech or nice OS then this would easily be a 6-4 MU for Elena
[spoiler]- God i hate this character
- Moves that whiff on crouching Elena: nj. lp, nj. mp, nj, hp, nj. mk, nj. hk, j. mp, j. mk, cl st. lp, cl st. mk, cl st. hk, far standing lp, far standing mp, far standing lk.
- Don’t focus air cannon spiral she almost always gets the follow up to break your armor
- Cammy sometimes lands on the other side when she tries to cross you up if you press cr.lk it has to be well timed but it can low profile her j.lk cross up.
- Back throw is good max distance cause on face it looks like it wont grab but it does and gets you back into neutral
- control the mid range is hard, Cammy has some damn good buttons but you need to pull through this is one of those MU where FA will save you on the ground. Elena FA goes so far and if done right it can catch cammy and lead to big damage
- EX DP can help in some instances but use it only if you need to get her off you
- plz dont corner yourself
- EX MS is pretty good here makes it hard for cammy to do anything and leads right into damage
- Meaty Slide on the last animation of wakeup will make you pretty much safe to cammy DP and moves they can do during wake up
- So apparently mid match this happen to me somehow EX cannon drill crossed me from the front i know it can cross up but it was weird like she teleported i think this has to do with Elena Hitbox bug working against us so if they ever find out be wary
- I have some but not a lot of MU with cammy in fact im in the Lab right now with her but i will need a while more or help to really know how to deal with other moves like Hooligan into drill.
- I give this the standard 4-6 for Elena, while she may not be her AE version she is still pretty damn cheap and her buttons deal some damage which is not good considering Elena low stun and low HP this is one of those two combos and you’re out matches.
Chun Li [spoiler]
- This MU is soooo hard, a good Chun will know that most of her pokes just flat beat out Elena’s pokes even cr.lp sometimes
- Nvm you cant slide under Fireballs at all!!!
- Chun’s like to go low into EX legs for Ultra or just a good damage set up remember that make sure to block low and high only when they do her over head kick
- You can bait out her EX Spinning Bird Kick (SPK) with an empty jump in order to punish
- Cross ups seem to go well in this MU for some reason all the chuns cannot fully punish or just get stuffed
- Cr.lp x3 is a nice frame trap that will catch her with a counter hit this also can be linked into the BnB but i think she will fall out if you’re too far away so cancel cr.mp into EX MS to get a nice combo into cr.lp to cr.mp and special attack.
- Very few moves whiff when Elena crouch so it might not even be worth it to look at them so i won’t bother and you can see yourself in training mode but a notable move that will whiff is far standing HP which is a good poke tools Chuns like to use a lot.
- You can actually EX RH her U2 which can lead to a juggle state and a good punish after if you are close enough to the corner
- j. HP is your best Air to Air remember that it will lose to Chun Li’s neutral HK tho
- She can sweep punish or OS your Backdash to hurt you and it also doesnt help that Chun’s back dash is way better than yours period.
- You might need full U1 in this MU you need to make it count when you get a hit and punish as much as you can
- you cannot EX RH her fireballs they just recover to fast
- Chun has 2 fake cross ups against Elena when she crouches everything else whiffs but these to but they can never cross up. J. lp and J. lk will hit into the front which they can confirm into cr.lk to cr.lk to EX legs into U1 or U2. So watch out for that seriously.
- I dont have much for you sorry Chun-Li’s normals and specials just whoop us bad that doesnt mean give up now it just means that you have to play smarter than before this means sweep punishes, not throwing out slides as much or at all, and using overheads wisely in order to get into your opp head thats all i can really say in this MU
- This MU is def. 3-7 in favor of Chun this will need more time to get use to but for now thats how it goes until we find new tech good luck and stay strong
Tips from goodone
Chun- I really don’t think this matchup is as bad as you guys are saying. The fact that elena can’t slide under fireballs really isn’t as important as some of you are making it out to be. Walk chun back into a corner, focus dash through fireballs and get to a range where you can buffer low strong. Focus is amazing in this matchup because chuns only real option in a certain range is to sweep, so prep focuses to punish her for it. Once she is cornered, you can high/low her without much worry, SBK is hella punishable and easy to see coming, and if she is blocking overheads she won’t have it all the time. Walking back in and out of her sweep range also allows you to whiff punish with a slide, letting you pressure her some more.
[spoiler]- A good cody will know how to space his Criminal uppers to just space you far enough so you cannot punish him, but HP Criminal Upper can be sweeped or full combo punished.
- Cody has some good normals and AA so stay out of the skies unless you plan to cross up
- Slide can easy catch and beat Cody when he does Bad Stone.
- cr. mp is a great mid range poke into confirm in the mid range
- Cody likes to do light version of his slide so make sure to block low when you see it, if you expect it try a max distance slide to punish him
- EX DP beats most of his Neutral Jump options.
- Unfortunatly like Chun-Li all the buttons that matter for cody still hit a crouching Elena the only notable buttons that whiff are far standing Lp and HP and QCF HK special and thats it
- Either Ultra is fine for this MU not much will make a difference you either heal or you don’t
- J. Hp beats most things clean of the sky
- Cody AA are pretty damn good so i would recommend to just not jump at all if you are planning to do air to ground footies or cross him up
- EX RH beats stones bad
- Cody BnB require him hitting is cr.lk so block low always a throw or an overhead is not as bad as his HP Criminal Upper that just takes our life away
- This is one of those MU where we wish we had 950 stun because 2 combos and you’re out with Cody he can rack up so much stun so fast on you
- Overall i say its still a 5-5 MU because of Mind Games its just that you need to be cautious of what you do and Overheads are just as effective here as any match.
- I haven’t played a Dan at all so this one will wait until i get real MU experience
[spoiler]- I honestly think we win this MU easy regardless of what Eventhubs polls say
- we can grab Decapre out of her mix ups with our backthrow range
- we can punish quit a damn bit from Decapre especially her DP at any range we either get a full combo punish or a free throw
- Not a lot of moves whiff in fact nothing important whiffs at all on a crouching Elena, its ok i never relied on it on this MU and neither should you
- One note Elena Hurtbox makes it so that Decapre has a fake cross up on Elena that can also actually cross up when it can its really ambiguous and cheap but its only J. lk i tried to combo into it and she can link it into cr.lk cr.lp into cr.lk into DP FADC Air grab but thats as far as i got, just watch out for it.
- We cannot punish EX Hand or regular hands at all from what i can tell and test for some reason it just spaces Decapre far enough out to recover fast enough, but here what we can do if you already condition the Decapre to block low then you can Pseudo- Punish the EX hands but doing a cr.mp into EX MS they will not be even close to being fast enough to react to that and then follow through with your BnB cr.lp, cr.mp, into whatever. Next time that Decapre will stand after cr.mp which where you will sweep punish them Note: you might be too far for a full combo punish which is why I recommend a Sweep.
- St. MP just beats her out of the sky clean
- J. Hp works but like cammy J.MP also works sometimes as an Air to Air
- Decapre Teleport mixup when she is EX is always to go low from what i see so react that way. She goes for High air drills in Non EX form usually
- you can just EX RH right through U1 because Decapre likes to mix things up and do teleport pressure after U1
- Ground U2 Does not reach full screen I need to emphasis this so you can bait it in with a standing walk back and forth motion. it goes like 8/10 of the screen but still you can bait that easy
- Two funny things about ground U2 you can either super or Ultra 1 at the start up animation of U2 to go right through Decapre this is useless knowledge but it might help if you feel that you pressed a button.
- I like U1 in this MU just to deal Damage but U2 or W works well too.
- I alway over head her after a throw or a sweep which makes my opp become DP happy which is where i start to slide and full combo punish really Decapre wake up options are really lacking
- Bait DP’s its not that hard when you make them mad with over heads.
- This MU is not that hard do not make it complicated, the only way for Decapre to deal damage is to come to you which means she loses charge and loses most of her mix up options not leaving much for her at all. If you get in a few slides and overheads then Decapre will be way to awestruck to know how to block and thats teh game, once you’re in their head their gone.
- This MU to me feels like 6-4 for Elena but in reality it might just be 5-5 and most people are still learning Decapre
**Tips from Goodone
Decapre: I haven’t had a problem at all against online decapres, there are a lot of people playing her a lot of ways so nothing is set in stone yet. I think the matchup is definitely in her favor, especially if they know elena specific things they can punish. Definitely still winnable though. ANY blocked SS lets her get a free ultra 2, which sucks. Its hard to play a ground game with her because of her weird scramble options, letting her get in multiple ways that we don’t have great options for. Save meter to ex.dp her dive kicks and shenanigans on reaction, because st.mp does not work well. You can punish her heavy hands (you’ll know they’re heavy bc they hit 7 times) with a hk dp, its the only thing that was fast enough that reached that far as far as i could tell. Periodically neutral jumping punishes almost all of her long range scramble options, you’ll just land on her with a nj fierce. Focus works pretty well against her in footsie range also. I can’t state enough how useful her focus is in most match ups. DO NOT NEUTRAL JUMP WHEN SHE HAS ULTRA. Her AA version of U2 will catch you if you’re fishing to punish scramble. When she does get on you, you’re going to have to block, she has good frame traps so look for a spot to eventually focus backdash when she’s out of spacing to tag you with light normals. She is pretty vulnerable to elena’s pressure, and her reversal options aren’t great. Just sniff out when she wants to and punish accordingly.
some other decapre stuff:
-you can punish any version of her ground pound with cr.lp into anything. You can probably punish with low strong as well.
-ex divekick and air charge dive kick are both super safe, don’t push buttons
-she has to have charge to be useful at range against elena, force her to lose her charge. If she doesn’t have charge she doesn’t seem to have any answer to jump in fierce outside of counter air to air or air throw.** [/spoiler]
[spoiler]- I personally hate this charc so much he is so annoying but the MU is even, if not in our favor
- Quite a bit whiffs on a crouching Elena so i will list them all: nj. lp, nj. mp, nj. lk, nj. mk, J. lp, J. mp, J. Hp, J. Mk, cl St. HP, far standing Lp, far standing MP, Far standing HP, Far standing mk, Far standing HK, all Jackknife Maximum attacks whiff up close.
- J. HP is kinda a good Air to Air DJ air normals are not that bad and knee shot will beat it out which is why J. lp is actually really good to cleanly beat out Knee shot if you know a DJ just likes to Jump in with that
- st. Mk works pretty damn well as an AA in this MU so i would solely use that
- Theoretically you can slide punish all DJ fireballs and i have but some are easier than others and distance depending, LP fireball slide under that ALL the time it so easy to slide under and to react too, MP you need to be mid screen or further, HP full screen, EX don’t even try unless you have ears of a god if you get the hearing cue then you can slide under both and punish.
-DJ Rolling Sobat pressure makes him pretty safe if done in a string or so he thinks!! Actually yea he is pretty safe no normal’s we have can reach in time to punish, so instead we can Pseudo Punish with cr.mp into EX MS into our Bnb. Here the thing the Lk Sobat will have only one slash in order for EX MS to hit you need to do cr.lp into cr.mp before hand or else EX MS will whiff. During MK and HK sobat which you can tell from just the 2 slashes you can just EX MS right off the bat for the mixup making DJ confused about either standing or crouching after Sobat pressure, For EX Sobat you can actually full combo punish this but only in one way after EX sobat we get a free cr.mp but he is too far away for any of our specials to connect at all except for EX MS so the punish would be cr.mp xx EX MS xx Bnb.
- You cannot EX RH fireballs he recovers way to fast and will punish you
- DJ live to tick throw all the time after a low jab and kick and after a slide.
- DJ love to do that fireball into slide Mixup for you to jump in just empty jump low or slide punish the fireball to keep them in check don’t press a normal at all.
- Overall this MU is pretty straight forward DJ likes to bait opp in order to get Damage don’t let him, slide pressure and overheads damage him easy when you have the life lead retreat to the mid screen he will start doing sobat pressure which we now know how to mix up punish. Full screen fireballs are not a problem at all and deal no chip when DJ comes to you he loses all charge and Mix up potential get him when that happens and you will come out on top.
- This MU imo is 5-5 or 6-4 for Elena its pretty easy to win and if you keep a calm head you will come out on top.
Tip from Onemic
vs EX sobat
- EX sobat may seem like it’s really good against Elena, but Elena’s s.lp and especially her s.mp will eat this move alive every time. If you feel that a Deejay player is going to EX sobat you can whiff s.lp from midscreen. The recovery is low enough that if mistimed you should be able to recover fast enough to block the ex sobat. If Deejay uses EX sobat from farther than midscreen you can react to this with s.mp which will beat it as well.
s.lp beats EX sobat at mid range
s.mp beats EX sobat at all ranges, but comes out a frame slower than s.lp and has slightly higher recovery.
Mix it up between whiffing s.lp and s.mp depending on your spacing if you feel deejay is fishing for EX sobat. [/spoiler]
[spoiler]- Holy Shit Dudley can do damage!!!
- This MU is not hard per say but it is difficult if you aren’t good at reacting and blocking and this is one of those 2 combos and you’re stunned if Dudley has meter.
- Elena Hurtbox is where we get equal footing so many attacks that matter whiff on Elena i will list them all.
cl st. lp, cl st. mp, F+ Hp, cl st. mk, nj. lp, nj. mp, nj. hp, nj. lk, nj. mp, J. lp, J. mp, J. Hp, J. mk, Dash into Straight whiffs too.
-Sometimes Dudley Jump in’s will just whiff on a standing Elena for no reason at all which if you see that can lead to a full combo punish
- Dudley string into Machine Gun Blow (MGB) is pretty safe so Elena cannot punish it unless its the EX version and even then all we get is a free DP thats it. There s enough frames to connect a cr.lp of anything thats a medium MGB or above but the timing is so tight its not reliable at all so instead we will Pseudo Punish it. Light MGB requires cr.lp xx cr. mp xx EX MS to actually connect. Medium and Heavy version can go right into EX MS after the push back from MGB. remember after a successful MS go into BnB and then the next time this happens go low with a sweep or slide or even just a cr.mp into special. Should be noted that if you really want to waste the meter Heavy and EX MGB can be super punished!
- Watch your Head!!! Dudley overhead can lead into massive damage if you aren’t careful at all. I know the hurtbox helps us but EX DP to get him off you or keep him in check with counter pokes from cr.lp
- Some Dudley’s have a habit of throwing out F+ Hp in order to scare you from walking up to them punish that with a slide it takes them forever to recover and slide goes right under that straight
- J. Hp clean beats most of Dudley Air to Airs if not J. Mp might
- st. Mk is the AA of choice for this MU
- Either Ultra is fine for this MU I prefer U1 for Damage cause Dudley needs to go down ASAP
- This MU basically depends on your reactions and punishes, Dudley can make you pay if you make a mistake so don’t go for easy low damage combos and make sure you punish him with back throws and also make sure you keep up the punishes and high low mix up and you got him easy.
- IMO the MU feels like 4-6 but might actually be 5-5 because you both have tools but your low stun makes this MU a problem [/spoiler]
[spoiler]- God this charc is annoying i never had to work so hard to beat a charc in my life
- regardless of my obligatory 1st point ranting, I actually think this MU is not that bad for Elena after going to the lab
- Originally I thought that Dhalism normal just flat out beat most if not all of Elena normal’s and we just have to punish that is until i found st.mk this button omg is so good in this MU and let me tell you why. 1st its an underused button for all Elena players unless they plan to do the TC which often we dont. This button just clean beats all of Dhalism ground pokes if you just outside their range u can actually spam it and only trade 1/10 times. Its soooo good originally i though cr.lp or cr.mp was the poke of choice but they trade way to often and not in your favor at all, B+ Hk sometimes went of Sim St. Hp but more often than not it beat me or traded in my favor but im not looking to lose HP with long range pokes. use st.mk all the time in ground neutral as a poke Seriously its that good in this MU.
- Elena hurt box isn’t much of an advantage here as it doesn’t help miss and important buttons for sim but interesting enough i found that if you crouch, then Sim Jump away yoga sniper J. Hp actually whiffs but that’s not that big of a deal.
- You should instead slide under an away Yoga sniper because you land right in front of where sim lands for a free grab and or mixup.
- I have no clue to punish Yoga Teleport so i hope someone can help there instead all i can really of is slide on reaction but even then they can block in time
- J. HP actually beats his Air normals clean
- The hitbox on his B+ HK is ridiculous do not try to jump in on that at all!! if you must tho please make it a cross up Mk just to make sure you got away.
- U1 is my Ultra of choice it gets me the Damage i need when i finally land a combo on him
- You can slide right under all fireballs and you should do so to punish him take away his tools lol
- st. lp is actually a pretty good AA here in this MU but i rather just abuse the hitbox or just slide under for a cross under mix up.
- This MU is annoying but not hard in fact if you play patiently and calm and counter poke the wins all yours sim can’t really do much full screen because st.mk is amazing but he can teleport pressure you and i don’t have a good answer except EX DP or block.
- IMO the MU is 5-5 or even 6-4 in Elena favors, while none of her good pokes can beat Sim poke, st. mk has found its use as the go to button in this MU to beat all of Sims limbs
[spoiler]- This MU depends more on your opp than it does the charc because E.Ryu on paper just destroys Elena, his burst dmge is amazing, he mixups are deadly, his sweeps set up so many elements with or without delayed wakeup. Even though i say all that the more i play the MU the easier it gets as long as its a long set and the advantage we end up having is mind games, overheads and slides really get into your opp head and E. Ryu low health means we don’t have to fight that long.
- First of all your wonky hurtbox is not gonna help you, E.Ryu has many tools to hit you even if you’re crouching so don’t expect to avoid anything important.
- Because of Elena Hurtbox when cr. E. ryu has 2 fake cross ups which are J.lp, and J.lk and J.Hk is always a crossup when Elena crouches funny enough J. HP always whiffs on a crouching Elena so keep that in mind
- remember none of E Ryu axe kicks are overheads except the EX version so make sure you stand block when you see gold.
- EX RH can punish fireball but you need to be in a close distance because E. Ryu can recover fast enough to crouch but all the red fireballs are fill punishable with EX RH just make sure to get the distance right
- J. HP works as an Air to Air
- St. MP is a great AA
- Cr.lp is a great Counter poke tools beats most of E. Ryu options
- You can punish Some teleports with slide but i think this would be a good place to find an OS to help Elena follow E. Ryu sometimes it feels he can run away too much when it come to pressuring him
- All in all this MU i would give a 4-6 to Elena, while it doesn’t feel like its 6-4 for E Ryu i think when comparing the list of tools each charc has in this MU, E Ryu has much more variety and strength and with the addition of his amazing Burst Dmge Elena has her work cut out for her. Thats not to say the MU is impossible in facts its very doable if you get into your opp head and shut off most of their tools.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]- This was one of those 4-6 Day 1 MU we just didn’t figure out until going into training room, Headbutt just destroyed us until we went through a few cases of trial and error and after finishing some testing it was only a matter of time till we figured out this MU and how to deal with pressure.
- First of all Head butt pressure is annoying, some Honda’s till believe they can throw it out without much worry of getting punish and for a couple of hours that was true but there are 2 things you can do to headbutt pressure. 1) you can counter poke it if you have quick enough reactions St. MK works great here like in the Sim MU where you can use it at a safe distance to punish Light and Medium HB. It trades to often with Heavy HB so instead i use cr.lp it comes out in 3f and it just clean beats heavy HB i don’t use cr.lp with light or medium HB because its too hard to react too online and it trades more often than i would like it too. Offline it works fine but still the trade is not in your favor. EX HB so far I cannot punish so the recommendation is to just take the pressure besides they wasted a meter you’re fine. Most Hondas use EX HB instead as a reversal not as a pressure tool. 2) A Blocked HB is a free slide punish. you need to be a little fast here because they can recover in time if your reactions are slow so make sure you slide punish them after you block to teach them not to HB you. Again you cannot punish EX HB.
- If you wanna make one hella of a punish you can U1 after a blocked NON- EX HB so any light, medium, and heavy one especially heavy if the other two dont work someone make sure to tell me
- Hondas Air to Air are pretty damn good so i don’t recommend fighting him there unless you got him pin down to the ground for a surprise cross up for something.
- You want Honda in the corner and then the pressure is on mix him to death as a Charge char he is almost always in down back which means you can get some great overheads.
- If you have to jump in then J.HP is a decent Air to Air along with J.lk and J.Mp
- In the corner J.Hk and J.MK can cross Elena up if she is crouching in the corner
- Overall the MU is 5-5 now and should not be too difficult as long as you demonstrate you can lock down HB pressure.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]- Just played an Elena on Endless the connection was good and links weren’t that hard to get off that being said i got bodied 7-0. Elena MU feels like 6-4 because a lot of her tools can’t punish her own tools from what i observed but another element plays a lot more of a role here, getting in your opponents head. Elena tools are obvious to both players cause both players play her so i knew what to block when but then he would change his Mix up making me guess every time i was in block stun was he gonna go high for an EX MS or continue low with another cr.mp to catch me not blocking low. It got to the point where i got careless, even when i got ahead with a good 1st round win and almost a clutch second round, he would always continue that mind game about what he was gonna do and if i even knew. He got all his links clean after an EX MS and even did a loop so i say his Execution pretty good but regardless i came to one giant conclusion when fighting this Elena. Let the opp come to you, i know this sounds like no shit when playing Elena, and thats because it is but for this MU its even that much more important. You need to not jump, not slide, not risk yourself if you let the other Elena come to you then you got them where you want them don’t ever play their games.
- regular DP a great AA now that Elena jump is so damn floaty
- st. mp works great tho if you like that more
- Slide pressure no good here
- EX RH is useless the hurtbox on elena backfires on ourselves making this seem more like a 6-4 MU
- EX DP beats out a lot of things
- Regular DP also beats out overheads on wake up
- you need to bring your A game in focus punishes or else your done for
- EX MS is your best tool here and use it well and not predictable if you can do that you got this
- J. HP is the best Air to Air
- N.J Hk might work in some cases and leads to juggle
- For some reason Elena would not be hit by U1 after EX LT i think the timing much more strict for her because of her Hurtbox but when i did hit her midscreen it was barely another frame and she would have fallen out.
- U2 or W can really be helpful here in a footies battle if you can cancel it right.
- I give it a nice 5-5 it might feel like 4-6 to u but remember thats in your head make sure to not let them get into your head.
- Overall like i said before this MU depends on how well you can get your links and how much you get in your opp head. If you can do that then you’re on your way to a victory [/spoiler]
- I actually have little to no experience in this MU so i would need community feedback
- His cl st. Hp whiffs on a cr. Elena
[spoiler]- So nothing really too important whiffs on a cr. Elena as far as i can tell
- He gets a cross up on cr. Elena with J. MP which leads into big dmge, he also can fake cross up with J.lk but idk what it can really lead into
- Heavy rekkas are full combo punishable and also Ultra Punishable
- J. HP seems to be the Air to Air of choice
- st.mp and sometimes st.lp seems to work well as AA but dont expect Fei to jump much i mean he does have a strong ground game
- Careful he leads into big damage fast so make sure you watch your low health and counter poke with cr.mp often it beats most of his pokes, if not cr.lp will do the trick
- you really need to get your links down for this MU because his gameplan is the same as your to space you to the perfect range to hit confirm into major dmge and them rush you down when your in the corner. The difference is that Fei can do it a bit better than you.
- Watch out for Chicken wing and his DP theres no need to jump in this MU it basically comes down to who can counter poke and confirm the best so have confidence.
- Sometimes i do recommend catching him off guard if you notice his reactions aren’t the best or he needs to take a while to even think about confirming i think the cross up now opens up as an option for you
- I don’t fight too many Fei’s so I would need some feedback in this MU instead
- Overall in my mind i think its a 5-5 MU even with Fei’s damage all you need is to just counter poke and confirm better.
- I actually have no Gens to practice with and don’t know much about this MU any community contribution would be great here
[spoiler]- Gouken received a lot of new tools that make this MU a little dangerous for Elena but with some good reads and a careful punishes this MU should not be harder than a 5-5 but sometimes it will feel like a 4-6 for Elena.
- Moves that whiff so far on Elena are very few and far between that are useful. Notable moves are all far standing version of punches, all NON EX tatsu, and most jump in except mk and lk. Other than that Gouken keeps his Nj. Hp which hurts and leads to a full combo punish so he still maintains his powerful normals for the most part.
- You can slide under fireballs and punish but you might need to space it closer than usual Gouken might recover in time.
- Gouken can punish slide with Nj.HP into a full combo so don’t throw it out carelessly
- Don’t try to EX RH the fireballs its just not worth it for 50 dmg and thats if your lucky enough to hit
- You can actually Slide under Gouken U2 and ex RH it on reaction
- Ex DP can beat out Gouken demon flip
- If they like to do the demon flip grab reset you can backdash that
- Overall this MU is not that bad but it something that we still need a lot more info and practice with so far i think its fair at 5-5 sure it will feel like 4-6 especially if the Gouken knows all Elena tricks but its doable. [/spoiler]
- Don’t play against Guy often so I don’t know much in this MU i will post what i have learned so far through some few sets i ran
- Elbow seems to whiff a lot more than i think it would but if its inputted manually it can hit a cr. Elena
- Not many buttons whiff on a cr.Elena important ones are st.lp and st.hk and elbows of command jump.
- Guy’s rushdown has gotten a lot better in Ultra and really Ex DP only works half the time as a get off me move but the best option really seems to just block
- Hk tatsu whiffs if done close to u as a cr. Elena. EX still hits.
[spoiler]- I feel this MU is in Elena favor mostly because Guile does everything Elena wants the opp to already, thats maintain a downback position, play very passive, and guess the incoming mix up
- You can slide under fireballs but i only recommend the light version anything else and you will probably eat the fireball
- Don’t EX RH the fireballs its just not worth it or safe or even a punish
- you can EX RH U2 though, this actually punishes fully for 150 dmge and maybe a follow up and you can react to it
- The important moves that whiff are F+Hp, st.lp and st.HK.
- Interesting note is that all of Guile Nj. attacks whiff someone else should test it out but as far as i tested it seemed like all the moves just whiffed
- Flash Kick can be reacted to for a block and you sometimes just go right over it with an empty jump into a full combo punish
- Overheads are important here after you shut down their options to use Flash Kick then you can start dealing great damage and even tick throws for some more deadly attacks
- I feel the MU is 5-5 or 6-4 in Elena favor, time will tell the game is still new but so far it does feel like it has gotten much better to deal with Guile with this charc[/spoiler]