Elena's Techs and Findings

elena

#1

<div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2” style=“font-family: ‘lucida grande’, ‘Lucida Sans Unicode’, tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 1.7em;”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>This thread is supposed to be a compilation of all kinds of findings and knowledges about Elena. I’ll try to make it updated for a little while, but I can’t promise because I </span></font><span style=“font-size: small;”>have been busy. Please, contribute!</span><br></div><div><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Safe Jumps:</b></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Unfortunately, Elena’s throws doesn’t give her much frame advantage and they also push the opponents way to far, even on corner. The following setup works nicely against </span></font><span style=“line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small;”>characters with slow reversals, such as Law, Chun, Nina, Julia, Alisa, Ogre, meterless Elena and more.</span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>b.throw, dash, f.jump hp (Safe from 6 frame reversals, empty jump is safe from all reversals.)</span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Lk Lynx Tail: (missing, come back later)</span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Sweep, wait a bit, f.jump mk (Safe from 5 frame reversals, a bit hard to do, you have to “cancel” the end of the animation… sometimes the visuals of this game doens’t help </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>much.)</span></div><div><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Ex Rhino Horn (original thread: Ex Rhino Horn Oh you face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Not only Ex Rhino Horn is the only version able to hit crouching opponents, it ends with an special hard knockdown, and it’s also a true blockstring from cr.mp and puts you on </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>frame advantage. Turns out there’s even more, as KitL19 showed: it can also make some strong mixups in the corner. After the knockdown, instantly dash forward to hop to the </span><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>other side, and from there you can take some actions to either stay there, or hop to the other side again with back+HK, cr.mp, and more. Very confusing, more tests shall be </span><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>done.</span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><b style=“line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small;”>Spinning Scythe no More</b><span style=“line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small;”>:</span><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Spinning Scythe is my personal choice for worst move in the game. It deals very little damage, it’s a bit unsafe on block, it’s not a blockstring from s.lk, it’s not even a </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>blockstring between both hits, and it’s raw launchable on reaction during it’s whole duration. </span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>It’s uses as safe tag options is also not the best. By tagging after the first hit, though Elena will get hit by everything, some alpha counters and launchers can be punished by </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>your incoming character, but this is very matchup specific. Strike invincible reversals done by your opponent will  almost aways hit both of your characters, leading to </span><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>disaster.</span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>The good news: Lynx Tail does everything you would want to do with Spinning Scythe, and more. It deals more damage, it’s a true blockstring from s.lk, hits low, gives a nice </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>hard knockdown, it’s very safe (only punishable by the quickest supers in the game), it’s also a very good option for safe tags (lk and mk not only tags you safely, it gives you </span><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>frame advantage; Hk version will keep the opponent locked), and Ex versions gives you good options for damaging solo combos. It’s only downside is that it’s also raw launchable </span><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>(no surprise, it’s a low strike). Hk version also can be interrupted after the second hit, but that’s no issue if you’re planning to tag.</span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Hk Scratch Wheel is also a simple but effective way to tag safely.</span></font></div><div><br></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><b>Vanilla’s Days are Over, Get in Their Faces:</b></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>SfxTk 2013 no longer rewards “lame” gameplay as it used to, so it’s very important to develop an offensive plan, even if this game’s focus is still perceived as footsies. Get a </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>read over your opponents style and find your way in.</span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>The best thing about Elena’s high/low game is that your opponent can’t really count on reactions alone all the time, f.mk (overhead) and df.hk (low) are too fast, and she also </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>has slower, but safe options to mixup as well. So they have to antecipate and commit. </span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>A quick example: after cancelling cr.mp with Mallet Smash a couple times, try cancelling into Rhino Horn. If you conditioned your opponent well enough, you’ll be reward with </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>some nice frame advantage on block.</span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>This opens some interesting possibilities for Elena. Both Mallet Smash and Rhino Horn leaves at very good advantage on block, and it should be your goal as a Elena player to </span></font><span style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; line-height: normal;”>perceive when to use these moves during footsies and start your offense. </span></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”>Also, Elena’s dash covers a lot of distance quickly, so you can aways dash in during the recovery of some random whiff and begin your stuff. </span></font></div><div><font face=“Arial, Verdana” size=“2”><span style=“line-height: normal;”><br></span></font></div><div style=“font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;”><br></div>


#2

Good notes, especially the safe jump stuff.<br><br>Though instead of a sweep after LK Lynxtail, why not do something else a bit faster to better time the jump? <br><br>As far as Spin scythe goes, Lynx Tail is better for block strings, but for combos, Spin Scythe Tag Cancels are good for keeping the opponent grounded and continuing with a full ground combo with your partner.<br>


#3

Oh, that part is a bit of a mess. Lk Lynx Tail safe jump is missing, so there’s the back throw safe jump, Lynx safe jump (still blank, will test later) and the sweep safe jump.<div>Will fix it soon enough.</div><div><br></div><div>Spin scythe will only be a go to option for combos for a few teams, really. It’s really low damage for a game with this scale system. If you’re going to burn the meter, there should be almost aways a better combo available. It can be used for yolo resets, but that’s about it.</div><div><br></div><div>So yeah, it can be used for combos, but it still probably shouldn’t be. For most teams, that is.</div>


#4

I think it kind of depends if you want to keep your opponent grounded for your partner. That said, I agree it’s a pretty ass move right now. I’d say it needs a mix of the following: Higher damage (like 30-35 a hit), become a true block string, and/or not be considered a crouching attack for raw launch purposes.<br><br>Edit: Would you mind if I used this stuff for the Elena Guide update?<br>


#5

No problem.<div><br></div><div>I Think Elena is so good right now that Capcom wanted to make at least one thing about her bad, and they chose SC. Don’t really need it anyway.</div>


#6

Just tested out some stuff with Spin Scythe. The only case I found it was beneficial was Elena/Dudley where Dudley would come in on Spin Scythe hitting, do a little combo into normal MGB and then walk up throw. In other cases, it was just better to boost into launch with a 20 damage deficit<br>


#7

I actually play with Elena/Dudley as main team because they look cute together so I do have some knowledge on the team, all I can say is that I only use SC combos when I want to be gimmicky. Works a lot more than it will in a few months from now. =p<div><br></div><div>If you wasted too much scale with confirms, ending the combo with SC xx tag may give you a decent reset opportunity, that’s all I can advocate for this move.</div>


#8

<div style=“text-align: left;”>I have been switching it up between using different versions of Mallet Smash and Rhino Horn for corpse-hopping, and it’s legit. I open people up a lot just by doing LK/HK Lynx Tail, and the MK Rhino Horn cross-over/HP Mallet Smash cross-over/LK Rhino Horn non-cross-over into cr. LK or just doing raw normal overhead to annoy. The occasional EX Mallet Smash is also good since it’s harder to react to. And there are always the safe jumps as well.</div><div style=“text-align: left;”><br></div><div style=“text-align: left;”>This might be old tech, idk. Just my two cents. :)</div>


#9

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/59565/Links">Links</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”><div style=“text-align: left;”>I have been switching it up between using different versions of Mallet Smash and Rhino Horn for corpse-hopping, and it’s legit. I open people up a lot just by doing LK/HK Lynx Tail, and the MK Rhino Horn cross-over/HP Mallet Smash cross-over/LK Rhino Horn non-cross-over into cr. LK or just doing raw normal overhead to annoy. The occasional EX Mallet Smash is also good since it’s harder to react to. And there are always the safe jumps as well.</div><div style=“text-align: left;”><br></div><div style=“text-align: left;”>This might be old tech, idk. Just my two cents. :)</div></div>
</blockquote>

That is olldddd tech but that doesn’t make it any less effective =)<br>


#10

Glad I could be of some help. <div><br></div><div>Recently I have taken advantage of the hard knockdown from Rhino Horn in order to switch without meter. In the corner with Dudley, you can even get a meaty overhead this way. </div><div><br></div><div>Hopefully this also isn’t old. :D</div>


#11

Elena anti-roll setup:
After ending a combo with MK Rhino Horn, use HK Rhino Horn to cross them over and prevent rolling. Against characters with poor reversals (>6f?, need to test more) you can do a neutral jump aerial on them as they stand up, for instance nj. MP > HP target combo.

Mix-up:
After MK Lynx Tail hits, wait a tic, then jump forward MK for non-crossup, Super-jump forward MK for crossup, or jump forward LP > MK target combo. Pretty tough to block IMO…

That’s all I got for now. :slight_smile:


#12

Dont forget to abuse her hk an back hk. Both minus one block but with all the four frames normals it’s basically 0. do it at max range and you wont get blown up by 3 frame jabs after you try to spam lk. Also abuse her mp.HP target combo when you decide to jump. Delay it as much as possible to hit crouchers with the second part.


#13

I know that the crossups Elena can do off hard knockdowns are well documented, but can we talk about this one for a second?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFwAfkGwIh0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

When I recorded this setup I was unable to DP out of it. Is this because rolls are punishable at this time (I forget what frames they are strike punishable, or even if they can be, lol), or more plausibly I am just bad at wakeup DP?

And speaking of oki, for my BnB I have been using rhino/c.mp/rhino/slide as opposed to finishing with Scratch because it is easier for me to hit. What I want to know is what kind of oki can I get off this, because the recovery of slide seems to be too long to do the normal stuff.


#14

After watching this video just messing around I realized that you can do this same forward roll crossup after her bnb ending with hk scratch wheel. Thanks for the video I never knew that tech :slight_smile:


#15

Oh no problem. But what happens if they quick rise and you do that will you be whiff punished or at a safe enough distance to block?


#16

That’s a funky-looking setup, SamuelVimes. Does that the Mallet hit same-side? Also, on block, does Elena still land behind?

You couldn’t get DP out because you can’t do reversals after rolling. That was a universal system change made for version 2013 to add risk to rolling. Also, rolls are completely invulnerable to strikes, but have a vulnerability window to throws.


#17

Yeah you are far away enough to not be punished if they quick rise. They wouldn’t be in uppercut range because of the pushback of the hk scratch wheel. Btw for some reason I am finding the timing to be easier using cr. mk.


#18

I should say I was not the one to find the setup, just found it online lol. I will test those out for you when I get off work DBC. I know mallet can hit same side not just crossup, but I haven’t tested if it is as meaty as the crossup variant.


#19

Lol I had just found it online and was gonna post it on the thread when I seen you already had. Definitely gonna keep messing around with Elena and see what else I can find. Also I should point out that the crossup setup ending with the hk scratch wheel you can only do midscreen. So if you don’t want to push them all the way to the corner only do one rhino horn then end with hk scratch wheel.


#20

So I have been messing around with Elena a bit and I’m not sure if this was talked about in any of the topics but I figured I’d share, and it has to do with how I view and play Elena.

I think Elena is a relentless lockdown character who will keep you guessing every second once she gets in with a deadly high/low mixup game that also enhances with the player’s ability to read the opponent. The way she accomplishes this is with her lynx tail pressure. As you may know by know, after a blocked lynx tail, she is free to move once both hands are on the ground, canceling the rest of the attack’s animation. At the start of this, you can simply follow with a s.:lk: to continue which will give you a counter hit if your opponent hits a button and do whatever from there.

But then it gets even trickier from there, because after a blocked lynx tail, you could just go right into an overhead from the animation. Or perhaps you might even go with a mallet smash to get a nice high attack and combo after it. Or maybe you notice your opponent likes to push a button at times, so after a lynx tail… RAW LAUNCH THAT SHIT!

And then you still have options after that of course. For one, all of the lynx tail pressure I spoke of involved the :lk: version. You can actually sometimes catch people off guard with the :hk: version because they’ve been conditioned to only have the one set of kicks hit, rather than the 2 that the :hk: provides. You could also alter the timing of when you make your next move. This means you allow the handstand animation to run longer to lull your opponent into a false sense of security and lure out a button if you believe they will do that.

The best way to sum up Elena in my mind is that she plays a lot more like a Tekken character in the game, keeping up pressure while incorporating a dealy high/low aspect of it. She just achieves this with a combination of specials and normals, unlike the Tekken cast where usually that comes in the form of Tekken strings.