Empire/triforce interview


#1

http://www.ggl.com/news.php?NewsId=3388

It’s pretty interesting if you have the time check it out


#2

Good interview. Uniting gamers is hard. Most “hardcore” or “professional” gamers dont recognize the talent and skill it takes to play others. i.e. The PC gaming community trashes on console and neither have any clue the FGC exists. TFGM has a decent grip on the whole thing. I think that people are getting bored of seeing CS, halo, wc3 all the time. Fighters provide way more in entertainment aspects IMO. I say Quit with the headshots and start with the snapbacks!

on a side note TFGM kinda looks like mike epps.


#3

Triforce has always been an interesting fellow.


#4

good find:tup:


#5

Fighters can offer something that a lot of other genres can’t to a spectator, and that’s the looming possiblity of a huge comeback.

-If you’re playing a racing game, and you’re in last place in the final lap, you’re fucked.
-If you’re playing an RTS, your opponent owns most of the map, your main base was just destroyed, and you’re sitting trying to rebuild while your opponent searches for you, you’re probably fucked.
-If you’re playing an FPS, and you’re in last place on the scoreboard 3/4 of the way in, you’re fucked.

But, in a fighter, it’s much more common to see someone at .5% health with 20 seconds left on the timer come back with a huge upset win.


#6

So, Triforce is his legal name?


#7

I disagree with the racing game and FPS thing. In racing games, there’s always the possibility of the guy in the lead making a mistake or easing off too much to ensure he doesn’t make a mistake (especially as there’s no-one to ‘lead’ him). In a FPS… how are you fucked? What’s to stop a huge comeback? Especially given pick-ups such as Quad Damage. I agree with RTS but that genre has always been about slippery slope gameplay, for the most part.

Comebacks in fighting games are more spectacular because even to the casual observer, it’s far easier to understand what’s going on (except for racing games but comebacks translate to one guy going faster than the other - over-generalisation maybe but it’s true). I think a lot of that has to do with the fact there’s an easy viewpoint that makes it easy to relate to what’s happening. When the camera is flipping back and forth as I’ve seen in FPS tourney vids, it makes it hard to follow what’s going on. There’s no universal viewpoint. Fighting games don’t have that problem, obviously.

I think crowd noise helps as well. Try showing people who play games but know nothing about 3rd Strike the Daigo parry vid without crowd noise (as on the EVO DVD) and with crowd noise. You’ll get a much better response to the second vid because the people watching the video can tell from the crowd reaction that what they’ve seen is truly special. I haven’t seen any crowd really respond to anything like that in FPS vids. Whether that’s to do with the crowd themselves or the fact that FPS games don’t really have the potential for anything that glorifies skill above and beyond a headshot… well, that’s another matter entirely.

Sorry for going off-topic slightly (I still haven’t read the interview yet!) but it’s interesting to see why fighting games work so well in spectator format…


#8

I agree with you both in that fighters are best for spectators.

But the “slippery slope” gameplay of RTS’s has plenty of exciting comebacks as with any competitive games.


#9

I’ll admit, I’m fairly ignorant as to what’s possible and what’s not in competitive RTS play but what Kyokuji said sounded accurate enough… if an experienced RTS player can explain it in more depth though, that’d be cool.


#10

Are you familiar with the rts’s that get played competitevly ie warcraft3 and starcraft BW? I could prob explain a “comeback” but thered be no point if you didnt have a grasp on the things i was talking about. BUT like you said hope fully a “experienced” RTS player could explain it.

EDIT why am i still awake?


#11

I’m familiar with them and the basic gameplay mechanics behind individual RTS games but not the high-level strategies used. I haven’t personally seen any high-level RTS matches either.


#12

FYI FPS there are few combacks. The quad is NOT a comeback item since the team in control will always map lock it. I’ve played FPS at a pretty high level. The best teams work on map lock + zone defense + spawn rape. The concept is that you time every gun/item spawn to the second and nobody picks shit up by your team. Once you “lock” (as in control everything on the map) your team zones the players and rapes the fuck out of the spawns for as long as possible.

A comeback is only possible if the spawns bum rush a critical area and work the map back bit by bit. Most “comebacks” you see are between even teams where one failed to properly lock the map. A good map lock is damn hard to break even with perfect timing.

Honestly if a player with full guns, decent armor loses the quad to a fresh spawn with nothing, you should debate throwing the idiot off your team that’s just sloppy (not that I haven’t screwed that pooch before).

But I digress this isn’t the place to get into the nitty gritty of FPS tactics and gaming.

Since the topic of fighting games as a spectator sport is on the table lets hash that about. I’m really hoping/pushing for a GGL fightin game event this year (and if any of you are PC gamers you probably know how butter our events our, yes self plug). So if people have input on how the coverage should work, or other people I should be talking to let’s hear it.


#13

In team maybe, I’m talking about one vs one. I’m sure there’s a vid kicking around on YouTube where Vo0 controls the gold armour spawn versus Fatal1ty, who keeps trying to get it to launch a comeback. I was giving quad as a general example.

I have no idea how shit works in team FPS.

But I’m infinitely more interested in talking about why fighting games are more prevalent as a spectator sport than other genres (or why they don’t) rather than squabbling over comebacks.


#14

Well quad/dd isn’t used in 1v1 FPS, and if you lose the high armor to a fresh spawn well…

As for fighters, I think it depends on the game.

IMHO SF2/alpha/3s make great games because everybody loves them

It’s all about selling what you play and making it fun to watch at a level even a complete moron can grasp.

But I’m looking for tips, I might be covering some more events and getting them on video so now’s the chance for input.

EDIT

If any of you guys can hook me up with some OLD sf players, I’ll see to it that they get front page news and several pages to talk.


#15

CS has some good comebacks/aces. Also GGL events are off the chain AmeriCup2 anyone? GGL even has CPMA leagues which is ultra-hardcore.


#16

Yeah, but in your Racing game scenario, you NEED the 1st place guy to make a mistake for you to make a “comeback”. That isn’t the case in fighting games. In fighting games, your opponent can be playing EXACTLY as they should, depending on the situation. But, you still have a (decent) chance to mount a comeback and win.

In FPS, it sorta depends on a bunch of variables (map, number of players, weapon set, etc), but in general, if i have 2 kills, and the leader has 20, and it’s first to 25, then i’m pretty much sunk. Quad damage/sword/sniper rifle or not, i’m fucked.


#17

Americup3 soon :wgrin: Also digital life again this October and from what I hear we have a LOT of space for gaming events and this year might have some suprises in store.

We also have Quake World which is pretty fucking hardcore though I’d love to see a fighter in one of our events.


#18

You guys should get some fighters at digital life! Where is it ganna be?


#19

Digital life will be this October NYC the gaming area is 15,000 square feet and I’m pushing for fighters but I don’t want to get ahead of myself but there might be some suprises.

Also check your PM’s I’ve been trying to contact you.


#20

Well maybe on the side. Empire could come and do a little exhibition. Show people how exciting fighting games can be. I bet it would peak alot of ppl’s interest. Plus ppl will be there covering the event could be decent press.

on a side note about the fps comeback.
a perfect example would be lost cause winning lanwar a week ago. Pretty much all his matches against stermy were an uphill battle =) You can read about it on GGL’s main page.