Entry Fee Discussion: FGC read!


#1

There are things that can be done to make the scene better in general and there are topics on the discussion already but the point of this thread is to pinpoint on one thing in particular. Entry Fee
I named this Higher Fighting Game Community because its simple we need to step it up.
This topic is not about the games or how bad they are or good they, the different communities versus one another or anything like that, its mainly to find out what people think of the current entry fee versus a higher one for tournaments and majors. I think I know the general feedback I will get but just to see if there are a few people out there who arent afraid of change and actually want to see the community grow.

-Higher entry fee! How would you feel about a 15-$20 entry for majors on mainstream games $10 for non-mainstream.

-Standard entry for locals ($10 for mainstream $5 for non-mainstream)

If you take the Smash Brothers community they have $20-$30 entry fees for theyre tournaments. The Halo Community spends out $50-60 for theyre tournaments in which case these guys are able to have over 5K for theyre prize money, plus top 5 gets something. $50 may be pushing it but taking into account that you have players that are traveling from all around the United States going to Evo, Mid West, Texas Showdown etc. myself included. I dunno about anyone else but traveling across the country to compete for a $10 entry and lets say there are 100 people for a tournament amongst top 3 when you think about it thats not a lot of money. 2nd place gets a portion and 3rd basically gets nothing. People will more than likely say that oh basically that means more money for the top players and I would say stop whinning and Step Your Game Up Basically this is not about the numbers in a tournament but yes I think the higher entry could towards helping the community in general and not just to the players. Fixing sticks, getting boards etc. for arcades. The revenue for these tournaments could be used for things like this for example but it doesnt. Presentation… Ive never been to Super Battle Opera but from what Ive seen in videos and pictures they have it all together. Grand Stages, theyre setups are sweet. I think we can have that if we put a little more. A $5-10 difference cant possibly mean that much to people…or can it?


#2

I think (like RenoRob) you’re throwing everyone into a general stereotype of going to a tournament simply to get first and nothing more. Obviously everyone wants to win, but many people travel to EVO, TS, ECC for the environment, for the people, just for the literal feeling of being around other people who enjoy playing as much as you do.

I think I might be alone on this when I say that raising the prices could drive people away.

:stuck_out_tongue:


#3

I think a $5-10 increase for the MAJORS is a good idea. it’s only $5-10. that’s not alot of cash, considering that traveling + housing + food is already gonna cost a large chunk of change. having a $15 fee, instead of a $10 one, will increase the pot, attracting more “top” players, thus, attracting more “mid” players (everyone wants their shot at taking out a top player, even if it isn’t for the top 3 spots).

i don’t know, i’m not phrasing it very well.


#4

At least speaking for my state/region, it took a lot just to get some people to understand that every $ might not go into the pot in order to rent a venue or pay an arcade owner for his troubles. It has gotten more & more common though due to necessity. People got spoiled early on with everything going to the pot.

I’ll be the first to say that I have a limited scope as to how far I’ll travel, and a player willing to go cross-country regularly probably has a pretty different take on it. On the face it makes sense to me… for majors, at least.

It’s a fine line; nobody wants to pay what they feel is “too much”, but nobody wants to travel for “too little”. I suspect consensus would be hard to reach because everybody reconciles supporting the scene vs. money in their budget differently and individually, but it would still be interesting to see what the sweet spot is entry fee wise… if that can indeed come out of this thread.

Maybe the percentages/number of cash winners could be reconsidered as well, although any discussion attempts I’ve seen here to that end haven’t gotten far. People generally are very averse to doing that, it seems.


#5

yeah, i mean, for locals and whatever, $3-5-10 or whatever your local scene sets is cool.

but for majors, tourneys where people are travelling across the country (and in some cases, across the oceans), i’m sure that they won’t be scared off by an extra $5-10. most of the people travelling are planning on placing well (most casual gamers aren’t going to travel for last place), so having an even larger pot (or nicer venue, etc, arcade boards instead of console, whatever) would be more of incentive for them.

and if a tourney has a large number of “top” players, more casual/local people will attend. that’s just the way it is.


#6

Thats not what Im doing at all. If you read carefully I stated that higher entry is split amongst top 5 in the Smash community and I think that should apply for most tournaments. I have always believed that Top 5 deserves something and would support it. Yes people do go to tournaments for more than the tournaments itself but that is what the topic is at hand.

I throw Regionals into the same boat. If you have players traveling the pot should compensate. The thing about Regionals is that theyre never guarunteed in terms of numbers. Take the guys that went to the recent AZ tourny. I believe they said there were 16-18 people for ST. Now youy have guys like Cole, Watson, Valle and such traveling from theyre state. The numbers werrent guarunteed, dont you think that Cole and Watson deserve more than what they got for traveling. A $10 entry would have been fair. Yes it wasnt alot of people but Cole would have had some decent pocket change to account for it. Im using this only as an example btw. The higher entry wouldnt hurt.


#7

$10 is fine (would seem a minimum baseline) for any regional. But you start going too much above that and you’re limiting who can play pretty quickly. Most players I’ve met are broke as a joke… you make it $10, you get a good spread of players and a decent pot. You make it $5, maybe not worth it. You make it $20, maybe worth it, but it eliminates most of the more casual players. Arguably that might be good, but if you’re struggling to get decent turn-out as is… shrug

I always did $5 for local tourneys, $10 for regionals. If you need a cover charge for additional expenses, that’s cool, but don’t abuse it. =\


#8

I don’t know if you can compare the entry fees with other communities. Mostly becuase a lot of us that travel play in arcades, and are already spending quite a bit to play in the arcade to practice or travel elswhere. Other communities, like smash and halo, are larger, hence the common halo/smash player doesn’t have to travel very far or even travel at all to find comp.
Personally, i don’t mind spending the money. I like the whole idea of people stepping their game up for a greater reward. But i know other people who don’t wanna spend more, mostly because they don’t wanna fell like they’ve been “cheated”.


#9

i don’t see the big deal of having the fee jump from $10 to 15-20. if you’ve travelled that far just to get to the tourney, and some “top” players are there, then why wouldn’t you spend an extra $5-10?


#10
  1. Money has to be allocated between the players and the event, you can’t give 100% entry to the players AND give people a better event at the same time without having a crazy increase in cost.

  2. SF already has a $30-$50 entry fee, what your not factoring in is that usually there are 4-5 games at a tournament, SSBM players only play SSBM usually, and Halo2 players usually have Halo2 singles, team, and sometimes halo1, so i don’t believe SF events are significantly lower than the other games, it just seems that way because our players are multitalented.

  3. We already have a system for this, started a few years ago, it’s the cover fee. Instead of adding onto ‘per game’ fees, just throw on a cost for the event itself.

  4. SBO has the presentation it has because it’s not ‘just’ a tournament, it’s also a big commercial for capcom and arcadia and whoever. The players should not really be shelling out higher fees for something like that, BYOC areas and more equipment are things that are worthwhile to players and may justify a cost increase.

  5. In the end I don’t think this is as big an issue as you suggest. Your only probably going to be able to sell a $5-10 increase, which will only help if you get hundreds of people. But if you can already get hundreds of people, it should be trivial to get a few sponsors and such anyway, which means that you wouldn’t have needed to increase costs


#11

An increase of 5-10 dollars isn’t that bad, especially if people knew about it before hand.

While for those who are entering 5-6 games that could add up. But figuring most casual players would probably only enter 1 or 2 games anyway so it shouldn’t be too bad for them.


#12

Jesus FMJ, you say everything I always want to say.

Only you say it better.

Hold me.


#13

Understood FMJ but honestly I’d rather have an increase in pot with less players since those will be the more hardcore serious players anyway and the ones who will be dedicated enough to get better.
As for the “multitalented” players yes if you add up all the games you enter with the Fee increase you will be coming out a little more heavy out your pocket. However thats just falling back on the principal that your probrably coming out 20-$40 extra possibly. If this is alot of money to that person then thats that person. Not everyone is poor and not everyone would mind the 5-10 increase. Again Im mainly talking about majors. Your average Fighting gamer will attend 2-3 majors throughout the year. While your hardcore fighting gamer will attend 80% of them or all. To the average player lets say that they’ll play3-5 games per major event. Your telling me that they would bitch or complain about $15-$30 dollars:confused:
Your hardcore plyer wouldnt mind because theyre traveling once every 2-3 months anyway, plus doing locals so the traveling exspenses alone is gonna hit them regardless, Im more than certain they wouldnt mind paying the extra fee anyway…I could be wrong, but I dont see why they wouldnt really if they are that serious and that dedicated. “Step your game up” and stop whinning.
Saying people are poor is a “poor” exscuse, If you really care about something and care about the cause then support it regardless. Your casual gamer isnt serious about tournament anyway.


#14

Halo and Smash players are just like the common tournament players that travel. They do it all the time ie: Texas Showdown 5. Same thing for Halo. I think its pretty safe to say that the arcade scene is dying. There are way more console tournaments than arcade now anyway. Chinatown Fair, Family Fun Amusement, Gamezone X, The Break. The arcades arent expanding nor plan to from what I’ve seen and console is definetly taking its mark Im sad to say.
People shouldnt feel like theyre being cheated but take what theyre doing more serious or just move on. There are plenty of casual gamers and not enough hardcore thats willing to support. Gotta make a choice.


#15

i’m poor :frowning: having to pay 50-60 bucks to play 2/3 games on top of flying out there is alot to me i gotta agree with preppy on this one


#16

I know many top players who come to tourneys with nothing in their pockets but lint and holes. Yeah, they should step up their life game so they don’t need to be sponsored or don’t have to rely upon winning to get gas or bus money home…
… but who is the money really going to? If it’s just going back to the winning players… unless you need that $$$ to draw Certain People in, I don’t see it as being a win. You’re the tourney director and can do anything you want, but I have a strong preference for nurturing new players into the scene. To be clear, the only reason I’m around is because I randomly saw a sign one day in the mall about a tourney, and it was pretty cheap ($5) to enter. (I suck and still suck, but it’s cheap entertainment so I do it. Pricing people out of being able to play is sad.) Maybe if you want to set up some sort elite championship and/or need to hit a time deadline you either price people out or make it so only serious people apply, but … if that’s the case then I for one jealous that you’re in such good shape that you’re able to turn away players. We let the Old Asian Quarter Stealer (OAQS) enter our tourneys around here as long as he largely behaves… :smile:

So yeah… maybe $5 local tourneys, $10 regionals (+ $10 cover charge?), $25/50 for Elite Super Events… ? ECCX’s Elections would have been pretty interesting if there was a $500 pot on the line… but then again, how many of those peeps could front $50?
In the end, there’s definitely no one-size-fits-all solution here, so party your own way. :tup:


#17

Great post.

“step up their life game”… :rofl:


#18

personally i think here in the US it really doesn’t matter, this is due to the fact that there really are not sponsers or anything. fighters are not mainstream anymore and probrably never will be again here. japan has their arcades and a different cultuer in general. if fighters were what fps games are as far as community size then these things could be possible due to the fact that more people want to proove their worth.

i also firmly beleive that only people that have really good competition tend to go to these regionals and majors due to the fact that they are use to playing at high level and can afford to go and lose just to learn and be better for the next time. the casual fighter fan really won’t waste 500$ to go lose and then play casuals or watch the finals when he could be at home practicing against his local comp. sure everyone wants to be the best but not enough people have the drive to actually play enough and go places to practice to get to the point where you can say “ok i am a top player, now it’s time to go for the #1 spot” and with people like ricky, jwong, pyro etc etc… alot of people are kinda turned off by knowing they are going to win. yes there can be upsets but these happen rarely to a veterain player, especially one who is use to tournement pressure. alot of people do not attend all the tournys, and the people who do and are use to the pressure more will be more apt to win due to that fact.

it simply comes down to the player’s attitude twords the way they game, if someone wants to be the best and will do ALL they can to get there then they will most likley be part of the group that will attend tournys just to lose and learn, but the majority of the gamers out there simply do not have that sort of money to expend twords a hobby in order to get as good as they wish to become, not everyone has 600$ spare to spend every 4 months to attend a major tournement, and for those people any increase in cost affects them. it really is a shame that this happens but it also comes down the the fact that in the type of games that we play there really is not a massive idea of the whole “clan” thing besides the “WC vs. EC” which is really just FFA vs. empire arcadia.

the fact that most tournements for other games like FPS just get a larger crowd. this is due to the fact that more people play these types of games in the usa then fighters, they most likley out number us 20 to 1 for casual and atleast 10 to 1 for competative play. the tourny scene here in the US is just about as good as it can be considering the father companies that made the games do not support the games anymore. with out support from more communities there really isnt much we can do. SRK alone cannot carry the tournement scene here in the US, it just is not possible.

another factor we have to take into consideration is the fact that tournements are not advertised much! tournements for games like Halo and SSB can be advertised in the paper, on commercials, on the radio, not to mention the MANY communities they have for these games. us fighting game fans just have SRK, nothing more then that. fighting games as a whole are dying, and with out the intergration of other types of games like they did at evo, they will die out and you can take that to the bank.

i have said this before, if people really want the tournement scene to continue to thrive then we have to go after sponsers as well as partnering with other major events such as lan parties, FPS tournements, basically any sort of competative tournement that has to do with gaming. with out the support of other games and the ability to expose others to the competative fighting game scene, it cannot grow, plain and simple. So basically every tourny will need to be like evo, but we can’t show the disrespect to the other gamers like we did there. sure we may not like the fact that the tournement was stopped to let the finals for another game happen, but how do you think they would feel if we interupted their games to have the finals for street fighter? they most likley would not like it just like most of the fighting game communities attendants did at evo last year. i am getting sick of seeing people complain about tournements not having good turnouts or good prize money. well it really is time to wake up and snap back into reality.

WE WILL DIE WITH OUT COMBINING EVENTS WITH MORE MASSIVLY POPULAR GAMES!


#19

Quoted for truth.

Seriously, I had no idea events such as all of these tournaments went on and that there was such a competitive fanbase until I stumbled upon SRK. I’m sure it was that way for alot of people, along with other sites such as Dustloop (Formerly Gamecombos) and so forth. Deal is, we really do need to get word out. Hardly anyone knows about the FGC but the people in it, and the amount in it is not enough. If it’s size does not increase it’s sure as hell doomed, and we’d all hate to see that happen. If we do not advertise, or whatever means we have of becoming recognized, we’re fucked. It’s NOT best to stay as we are now, we need to step up. ALL of us.


#20

That’s part of Preppy’s point (I guess)… the average tourney goer is doing (or has done) about all he can do. When the inevitable “how can we save the scene?” question rolls around, it’s always these same average joes trying to propose solutions & stuff; the top players usually just roll thru on tourney day, get the $ and leave.

Even the people generally well-known for trying to do big events and keep everything going aren’t considered “top players”, they’re just dedicated to supporting. Where’s the top players feedback on this topic? They’re the ones that will ultimately benefit from this additional fee people are being made to feel like they ought to be willing to fork over for the privilege of their presence or whatever. Hell, if it means more money, they’re probably all for it…

Even the one organization of “top players” that’s supposedly doing this and that for the FGC, it’s such a huge damn secret nobody knows (or really cares anymore) what this and that is supposed to be exactly & why we should be so grateful.


I’m not saying they owe anything any more than anybody else, I’m just tired of seeing the little guy getting looked in the face like “what are you gonna do for the scene” while the upper crust sits back and calls everybody scrubs, not really offering any solutions of their own. How could they? Most of them are too good to post.

So you’re right, we need to step up. ALL OF US. Or else just let it die a peaceful death. Because if I wasn’t already cool with SF and I stumbled upon things as they stand, I don’t know if I’d want to be bothered with competing. And that’s what the new blood that will save whatever’s left to save is up against.