Eventhubs character rankings-Matchup discussion

gouken

#1

Super Street Fighter 4 Tiers ? Character Rankings : EventHubs.com

Gouken
4 chun
5 honda
4 bison
4 guile
4 balrog
3 cammy They definitely got this right been a tough match since vanilla
4 ryu
4 abel
4 rufus
5 sagat
5 seth
6 dhalsim
5 akuma
4 fei fei can chicken wing all day and gouken can’t do anything till he gets ultra
5 rose
4 blanka fuck blanka
5 ken, ken is a harder matchup than ryu
5 zangief
5 deejay
5 adon
4 ibuki haven’t lost to many ibuki’s, but I’ve raped many goukens using her
4 vega this matchup is pretty even
4 cody
5 viper
5 fuerte guessing game in fuertes favor imo
5 dudley, Gouken is fucking pringles for Dudley, not an easy matchup

6 t-hawk
5 juri
5 sakura
5 guy
4 gen
5 dan
6 hakan
6 makoto

what’s everyones thoughts on these matchups?


#2

I actually don’t have too many arguments about this. I think Ryu deserves a 6 and Ken deserves a 5.5 and that’s only b/c he has shitty recovery on his fireball.

I don’t put too much stock in the Tier list, but it’s almost spot on aside from the Zangief Match up.


#3

Gouken’s nerfs and lacks of decent bumps makes the tier list pretty good for the old man.


#4

I think Fuerte should be a 6, because Gouken has a weak wakeup game. And even when he isn’t knocked down, it’s hard to keep Fuerte away because of EX runs, wall jumps, etc.


#5

I don’t agree with he gief matchup either, a good gief can be trouble for gouken especially when he gets a knockdown and starts running okizeme on you, my second loss at EVO was to a gief. I would say the matchups here are way more accuarate than the vanilla matchups for gouken since console chars weren’t emphasized on back then.

I don’t think I can agree with your assessment of ryu though.

absolutely


#6

Someone explain to me the numbers please.


#7

the numbers is the probability of that character winning the matchup assuming both players are equally as good and understand the matchup. gouken wins against bison 4/10 so the match is in bisons favor 6/10. This is all theoretical.


#8

I see said the blind man


#9

So in the xample given a 3 for Cammy which has been a tough matchup since vanilla…how is her winning 3 of 10 a tough matchup?


#10

the numbers are Goukens probability for winning those matchups, theoretically gouken wins 3 out of 10 against cammy.


#11

I think they were a bit too liberal with the 4’s for match ups and the old man fares better than this list lets on. I think 4 should be a clear disadvantage like Gouken vs Balrog where you have to really work to get that win.

Gouken
4 chun - 5/5 Think this match up is even, chun has a good dash and can get past your zoning well enough but doesn’t really have much to get out on wake up. EX spinning bird can be cleanly beaten by gouken flip kick at the right distance and backdash can be punished by palm with option select.

5 honda - 5/5 I’ll agree with this one.

4 bison - 4/6 Similar to the balrog match but I feel gouken has more options to deal with his pressure. Scissorkick pressure in the corner can be a nightmare and Ultra II prevents you from carelessly zoning him out.

4 guile - I’d call this even 5/5. Neither have much advantage over each other.

4 balrog - I’ll agree with the 4/6. IMO one of goukens hardest match ups. Finding out what can be punished with c.lp, tatsu has helped the match up a bit. whiff c.lk buffer in tatsu deals with mid screen ex rush punches well. If c.lk doesn’t hit no tatsu comes out if rog comes rushing in you get a nice combo. In the end though, it feels you really have to be on point to take out a balrog player with equal skill.

3 cammy - 4/6. Goukens toughest match up for me, though i haven’t studied the matchup as indepth as i have with balrog. Seems she has an answer for anything you throw out. Hard to zone her out. Great pressure with instant divekicks. Only saving grace is crouch tech with c.mk which will stuff a lot divekick pressure.

4 ryu - I’d call this even 5/5 I don’t think Ryu has much advantage. Stronger footsies and ex fireball works wonders to start up his pressure. Wouldn’t classify as a 4/6 though.

4 abel - I don’t have much experience in this matchup so can’t comment.

4 rufus - Even match up or slightly in goukens favor until Rufus gets Ultra II. After that i’d call it 4/6 in Rufus favor.

5 sagat - Sounds about right.

5 seth - not too sure about this one.

6 dhalsim - 6-4 Goukens favor. I think gouken is the only char who can make dhalsim come to him. Zoning and smart kongos on predictable limbs, ex gouken flip on his fireballs. Overall just feels dhalsim really has to work to get the win in this match up.

5 akuma - 4/6 Akuma. Vortex is a nightmare. I thought I had a handle on this match with c.lk being able to make his hitbox lower to deal with the vortex, mainly the throw and whiff df palm. It still does to a certain extent but gouken doesn’t have much option on a meaty df palm. EX gouken flip to get out of pressure can be punished with raging demon.

4 fei long - Doesn’t feel as bad as the match up in vanilla. His focus attack hits so far away. Chicken wing can be kongo’ed at right distances. His wake up pressure isn’t as scary as cammy. A bit divided on this one could be 5/5 or 4/6.

5 rose - Don’t think i’ve fought a good enough rose yet so up for debate.

4 blanka - I don’t think the match up is as bad as vanilla. c.hp can trade with his jump in most of the time. Punishing balls with palm seems more consistent in super. His slide is punishable on most distances. His mixups are definately annoying though. Overall i think its a 5/5 match up

5 ken - Ken is definately a harder match up than ryu. He can put on the pressure much more than ryu but i still feel its a 5/5 match up.

5 zangief - Good giefs are rare but they really are a hard match up. EX greenhand on reaction is a head ache. And gouken doesn’t have much options to get out of wakeup pressure by gief. Everything is pretty risky. 4/6 gief.

5 deejay - Haven’t played any good deejays

5 adon - No good adon experience.

4 ibuki - Even match up 5/5 . Gouken deals with her vortex much better than akuma’s vortex. Her reversal isn’t the greatest so you start up your gouken flip pressure

4 vega - Even match 5/5, both can deal with each others bs.

4 cody - Even match 5/5. I think cody has a worse wake up than Gouken.

5 viper - I can see this match up being 4/6 viper but not enough experience against good vipers.

5 fuerte - Tough call, getting knocked down is a nightmare. One big guessing game. Fuerte doesn’t have much of a wake up game either so it can go either way tbh. I’ll go with 5/5.

5 dudley - Haven’t played a really good dudley yet

6 t-hawk - 6/4 Gouken. T-Hawk doesn’t have the tools to get in on gouken besides guessing.

5 juri
5 sakura
5 guy
4 gen - Not much match up experience on this char but i cant see it being 4/6 gen.
5 dan - Dan kicks can be annoying on wake up. 5/5
6 hakan
6 makoto


#12

That’s a copy red leader


#13

I still think its 6-4 in Fuerte’s favor. Fuerte does have a decent wakeup game: EX run absorbs everything that isn’t armor breaking/a throw, EX Guac has invincibility on the way up (longest invincibility I think (maybe just Vanilla SF4 because of Cody)), and EX run can be OSed into U2 to break and Demon Flip (idk the move name) shenanigans.


#14

part of the reason why ibuki is tough for gouken is that you can’t zone her effectively. Not a lot of ibuki’s know this, but a naked neckbraker>>>gohadouken, it doesn’t even have to be ex.


#15

^ yeah, but a blocked neckbreaker means back throw > ??? She just can’t be sliding all around the place. St. mp from far away is good to get people to slide b/c it looks like the fireball motion.


#16

oh no doubt, but I was referring to neckbreaker going under fireballs even if it isn’t ex, so you can’t spam fireballs against a good ibuki mid screen. Ibuki really shouldn’t be throwing random neckbreakers especially on a gouken with ultra. I still don’t find the matchup that tough, mostly because I haven’t fought too many good ibukis, kinda like how I body most cammy’s, but a competent cammy(which is hard to come by) will totally wreck my shit. Its good that she can’t really vortex Gouken like most of the cast though without getting punished hard.


#17

I’m not exactly the greatest Gouken in the world but one guy who rarely gives me problems is Guile. If they try to close in on you with a LP Sonic Boom you can easily just Kongoshin the Sonic Boom and the Guile is likely to be in hitting range.


#18

^ I feel you. Plus Kongo wrecks her Kunai shit and her target combo frame traps, and she has an open invitation to be safe jumped.

Cammy is another story!! LOL


#19

4 chun- Agreed. Although this isnt goukens hardest matchup, as he can make chun come to him or get on the offensive(not through demon flips, but simple hadouken dash forward pressure.)

5 honda- I think this might be slightly in goukens favor. Gouken can zone him just about as effectively as guile, throw some safe jumps and safe demon flip kick pressure and your pretty much good to go. Ive handled even good hondas solely on effective zoning and divekicks.

4 bison- This matchup is a bitch. Nuff said

4 guile- No. I believe this is in goukens favor honestly. Its very hard to match goukens fireballs so you can chuck them all day. Throw that in with some careful spacing and guile cant jumpin either. You can literally chuck hadokens for days and its hard for guile to deal with them unless he has ex meter, which in some cases he has to save just to wakeup safely (flashkick fadc) from goukens dive kick safe jumps. Ive given dieminion a hard time with this matchup and modinside.

4 balrog- Im finding it easier being able to deal with this matchup. regardless its still in balrogs favor. But gouken can still handle this. It would help to learn safe jump dive kick ultra option select with shin shoryu though to keep balrog afraid from waking up with something.

3 cammy- A bit exaggerated honestly. I mean its in cammys favor. But it aint so 7-3. As ive learned from raunwynn. You can option select tech with crouching forward and goukens crouching forward will sometimes beat out the cannon strike. Yes that annoying divekick. Sometimes it will counter hit. Plus gouken can actually safe jump cammys cannon spikes. Only thing about this matchup that makes it in cammys favor is that her regular spiral arrows can go under goukens fireballs.

4 ryu- I honestly believe this is in goukens favor. Gouken can handle ryu with close footsies, win the fireball war, and play a solid zoning game against him. If theres anyone gouken was built to beat. It was ryu and ken.

4 abel- A very annoying matchup. Gouken can easily lose this one for obvious reasons.

4 rufus-Maybe 5-5. 6-4 in goukens favor if were really stretching it. Rufus has a bad case of hitbox syndrome where mp hado is the hado of choice in the matchup. Jump back roundhouse, jump back medium punch, crouching forward, and crouching fierce all do a good job getting rufus off of you. Only scary thing about this matchup is the dive kick pressure, but they arent over heads, and if the rufus player realizes hes not getting counter hits off of dive kicks, hell try to throw in a grab. This usually gives you some space and you can start effectively zoning him again.
5 sagat- agreed. this can go either way.
5 seth- hmm…might be in goukens favor. Goukens damage is just toooooooo rediculous for seth to handle. Throw in some denjin and you have stuns too. By the way, if seth whiffs his second ultra, its possible for a 100% death combo with denjin.

6 dhalsim-agreed. Gouken is one of the few characters that can make dhalsim come to him.

5 akuma- agreed. Although akumas hammerfist can tear gouken apart. This might be slightly in akumas favor.

4 fei- with rekkas being a part of feilongs footsies feilong can win this one free…im sorry…FRAY. I hate this matchup with a burning passion.

5 rose-pretty much who can turtle harder. rose can catch demon flips with soul throw and win in footsies.
4 blanka- agreed. blanka can be hard. but not goukens worst by any means.

5 ken- Again. i believe gouken can also deal with ken in footsies. and can effectively zone him. i think its in goukens favor.

5 zangief-it feels like you cant lose your focus for one second or its all over. i dont think this is 5-5 at all.

5 deejay- umm…havent fought many real good deejays. but i can see this being in goukens favor. since he can zone deejay all day.

5 adon- this might be in adons favor.

4 ibuki- I dont think this is hard for gouken honestly. She doesnt have the solid reversals to deal with goukens pressure. and that silly kunai vortex doesnt work when you got the parries.

4 vega- i think this is 5-5. its pretty even. Plus once vega gets knocked down gouken can safejump

4 cody- this matchup is free for gouken(so far from what ive seen. one of the few matchups where even though zoning is the better option, gouken has little trouble rushing down when given the chance.

5 viper- yea gouken can handle this matchup. agreed. 5-5

5 fuerte ummm…idk much to say about this matchup. ive fought good fuertes with gouken. Although the matchup never gave me a problem. But the guessing game is in fuertes favor.

5 dudley-can effectively zone dudley. Dudley has a hard time against any character with fireballs. Goukens safejumps and divekicks can hurt dudley bad. I think gouken wins this one.

6 t-hawk- gouken wins this easy. t hawk has trouble getting in

5 juri- normally juris want to attack from the sky. Just have to mix up lp hados with mp and hp hados in this one. Pinwheels are juris only annoying asset and any version of them can be punished aside from her lk pinwheel.

5 sakura- I think this is goukens favor. I zone sakuras (even good ones) alllllllll day.

5 guy- Meh, i know nothing of this matchup 0.o\

4 gen- Hmm…dont know too much about this one either. in vanilla i would have said this was in gens favor. Nowadays. im not sure.

5 dan- 5-5 against dan? im shocked. a tear almost comes to my eye, again gouken wins footsies and can zone him all day

6 hakan- gouken better win this -.-
6 makoto- I wish makoto beat gouken. it would probably be her only good matchup so far.


#20

^^Do you play regularly with any Dudleys? I don’t think you can really throw fireballs unless at fullscreen. When I play as Dudley against Gouken and other fireball characters not named Guile I look for fireballs to duck under straight/upper. Dudley has ridiculous pressure strings and I feel the match is definitely in his favor, though it isn’t horrible. Low counter is very effective when waking up as it beats both overhead and cr. roundhouse, ex counter during block strings is pretty good too. I play against a good dudley who will often ‘duck’ into upper and followup with blockstrings, and mixup with duck into throw effectively punishing crouch tech in unrelenting pressure. This often means getting knocked down which leads to even more mixup, options that can even lead to eating Ultra. Maybe you can give any of your insight in the matchup, personally I think Gouken is free for Dudley.