Evo Afterthoughts…


#1

I?m sure many players coming back from Evo this year would have stories and suggestions to share with the community for our future growth. This thread is intended for players to input their thoughts of why we are so behind the States and how we can improve in the future. Here?s my story:

With 10 years of tournament experience, I can say that I?m one of the more experienced players in the scene. Based on my skills and past experience, I was confident that I would do good in my first Evo. I was so confident that I didn?t study any American players or practice my bad matchups. (Even though I knew I had many potential weaknesses) Just a few weeks before Evo, casuals at my place were dedicated to marvel, smoking, or drinking. The place where once best players in the area gathered to play hardcore matches became a drug/alcohol house for ?top players? (myself included) to brag/talk shit about past achievements. It was only a week before evo when I realized my game isn?t as sharp as I wanted it to be.

@ Evo Pools

Las Vegas, a city filled with distractions. Smoking, drinking, gambling? Even though we still haven?t forgot about our goal for this Evo, we were softened by all these distractions. My pool started Friday morning at 9am. I got up after 3 hours of sleep from a whole night of gambling to the tournament. Knowing I had many top players in my pool, I still thought I?d prolly be clutch enough to qualify. Making it out of the pool? that was the only thought in my mind for the whole morning. However, my lack of sleep and poor mindset stopped me at losers finals. Sitting infront of the big screen, knowing I would either go home and or make a name for Canada by beating Wolfkrone, I wanted to win; I needed to win; losing to him would make me the 1st loser in my pool. And yet, I got raped. 4 rounds straight. I was just another scrub who got owned by Wolfkrone in the eyes of Americans. My head went blank after the first match, didn?t even try to counter or to change game plans. I stepped off the stage in great sadness. Later on in the day, I found out no one from Canada made it out of their pools. Not one person.

@ Salty Suite

Thanks to Chris Hu, Chi-rithy and myself were invited to the salty suite for the $100 tournament. We stood outside of the room for a good 30 minutes arguing whether or not we should go in. Even though their intention was just to get some pot fillers, I knew it was our last chance to prove ourselves and rep our country. I was determined to join. (Shoutouts to Teddy Bauza, who sponsored part of my entry fee to the tournament) Even though neither of us were on point at that time, our goal was to not come last place. Before the tourney started, chirithy and I sat in the corner, no one knew/cared who we were. Right after we both won our first matches, ppl came up to congratualate us, and asked about Canada. Top players of various places came up to me and asked for MMs. In the end, the skill gap stopped us from advancing in the tournament, but at least, we made Canada proud. Although this may sound a waste of $100 to many ppl; to me, it was mission accomplished.

After this tournament, I realized we are way behind the States, Japanese, and even Taiwan in terms of skills and mindset. More to come later?


#2

I’ll be the first to say everybody needs to come out more and play each other more, that just the bottom line. This was the first mission TFNS was made for. I honestly hope people take in whatever JS has to say and really try hard to play more and build their competitive spirit more … for those who are able to make it come out, more ppl means more experience for ppl to be exposed to its that simple.


#3

JS, you should try online play a bit more. It does help the matchup knowledge.


#4

About my performance in Street Fighter:
-I wasn’t really expecting a lot with this game. I didn’t practice, I haven’t played that much and I don’t go to tournaments. I just wanted to play it since i’m already in EVO. My first match, the guy pressed start on me. I hit him with Vega Ultra II and he thought he was dead so he pressed start. The funny thing is the judge asked me if I want to restart the round and he said it’s up to me. I thought about it for a second, I stood up, I shaked the guys hands and told him, sorry man but i’ll take what I can get. In my mind i’m thinking he already thought he lost so he pressed start. Little did he know that Vega’s ultra does shit damage. LOL

My 2nd match is interesting. It was against Alex Valle. LOL!! I was so shocked but also honoured at the same time. When we started our match, i told him win or lose, I would like a picture. He said cool. I won 1 round each match but could not beat him the 2nd time. He got grabby and i failed horribly in breaking them. I also got killed by d.mp, d.mp, d.hk with Ryu. Who in capcom made those links? Seriously. All in all, i had fun with SFIV and maybe just maybe i’ll play it seriously again. Now that Adon is considered top tier and everything lol.

About my performance in Tekken:
-Being in the big stage tournament like EVO is really nerve racking. I did freeze during my 2nd match on the big screen but the LAG didn’t help ease my tension. Yes there is lag in the big screen regarding Tekken. Being split in 3 monitors will cause lag. I Missed 4 combos. After that loss, i won 3 more matches until Way Gamble took me out. So i was 4th place in my pool which is not bad and i will certainly not be salty about it. Nor can people make me feel bad about it either cause being up in the big screen gives more pressure. Like so much. It’s good to know that i didn’t get trashed by Insanelee in the comments side. I shattered 6-7 dreams in EVO and i’m so happy about that. I was there to win but I was mostly there to break people’s hearts by losing to the bear. All I can say is be ready for any character.


About my EVO Experience altogether:
-Great to know that a lot of people still remember me from out of state in regards to the videos and tekken things I do. We Tekken players were lucky enough to talk to the Tekken Gods of Korea. Probably because of the Tekken Girl we have on our team. They gave us tips on how to improve and how to be capitalize on what we have. Travelling does help increase your rep regardless of winning or not. It was a great experience for me and my team and i’m certainly considering going to next years.

-This was fun, we got a lot of pictures with some big names.

NeoRussell


#5

JS a lot of people were on MIRC when you played vs WK. We were hyped when we heard you beat Chris Hu. A lot of EC players probably felt deep down you repped Canada, regardless of your loss to Wolfkrone. Maybe I am wrong since I have not been in the scene for years but T.O. doesn’t seem to have many viper players? I can’t wait to see more Canadian footage of EVO2K10. EVO is the biggest it has ever been so making it out of your pools is much harder than it has ever been.


#6

I think one of the main problems is that theres no one that really wants to be good besides JS.

Also Eric I think you got way too complacent with chopping pots with Blitzman. If you never chopped and played for the win every time:

a) better play
b) more hype for the scene
c) more money for gambling! (jk)

Seriously tho the last 2-3 months of tourneys have been some of the most boring out there, because everytime it gets to gf it becomes a snoozefest. It’s come to the point where people are gone and you might as well just play it out at your house. How would you feel if Daigo/Ricky chopped the pot and played Guile/Chun in the grand finals of EVO?

In order for the scene to get better there has to be a reason for it. Whether its sponsored prizes, or for pride, right now for me and many others, there really is no incentive to be a top player. Despite JS being a complete jackass to the majority of the scene that majority really hasnt taken it to the next level and have gone out of their way to try and beat him. And theres very little we can do about that.


#7

The Koreans we hung out with told us that we have to criticize players badly which will make them play good. All in the name of their game so nobody should be insulting somebody’s mama or something.

They also told us that money matches are the best way to improve. Nobody will care much for casual matches and players don’t play their best if nothing is on the line. The Tekken community will adapt this advice to our Tekken game and i’m sure some of us players who want to improve can battle out the Top Tier players. JS or any other top tiers, i may ask you for money matches ($5) from time to time. Sorry but $5 is what I am willing to dish out against you. You guys are just so ahead. In time, i’ll increase it to $10 though. First 2 matches is fine. Nothing crazy like ft5 for $5, that’s not even worth your time I think.

NeoRussell


#8

Question; what are the means “top players” feel are necessary to become better as a player?

Personally I don’t believe that “play more” is a concrete answer, nor a beginning for that matter. I play less than almost anyone locally while beating people both casually and in tournaments who log upwards of 5x if not more hours than me.

Is it a mental thing? If so, are Money Matches truly a motivational means to an end?

Training time thing?

Seeing varied comp?

Is travel necessary?

How much money needs to be spent?

Can you only play certain people to keep good habits? If so does someone of lesser skill get snubbed?

I’m honestly curious how people see this topic in terms of their own personal growth and the growth of others.


#9

I woke up early in the morning to support the morning players (basically almost everyone). I could feel people lost track of their mindset when they arrived at Vegas with all it’s distraction as JS mentioned. The day already went sour as Trini got 0-2 in basically 30 mins of the tourney. Chi-Rithy lost a mirror match to Shizza in his first game and it affected his mindset just because he had to deal with this bizzare matchup consisting of random focus all match long.

As the 5pm commenced I was a little sad that I had no one to support me (all the morning players went back to the hotel to rest or whatever) but I knew I could win at least my first 3 opponents. My 4th opponent got to be Vangief which I was pretty sure it would’ve been a close match at the least. After the 1st round I got shooked; he psychic lariat me 4 times in a row and I got scared to throw a limb the whole game. I felt a little bit better when Vangief defeated Arturo afterwards.

My first match in losers bracket was Damdai; great player in HDR and a decent SSF4 player. I defeated his ryu in the first set and he pulled out his viper on the second set. I got destroyed because I didn’t know how to deal with his playstyle; he basically took life lead and if i’d run away he would turtle the rest of the game. Now this really frustrated me because I knew that he wasn’t a great viper player but also because he counter picked me and played really safe. I was so close to switch character when i lost the 2nd set but my pride of playing with only dhalsim regardless of the outcome clouded my judgement. That loss hit me hard.

Regarding the Salty Suite at the last moment I refused to join in because I was too scared to face high caliber players or that I wasn’t over my last loss vs Damdai. I believe it was a bit of both. I respect JS and Chi-Rithy for going in and representing Canada. I’m sorry if you guys felt dissapointed by my decisions but I felt it wasn’t my time just yet.

After Evo I’ve been thinking alot having a 2nd character in my rooster for tourney level. I have all the time in the world to think about that now though xD.


#10

This is an interesting point you brought up, as well as has been touched on by others in this thread, and frankly I don’t think there is a right answer to this question, and everything has to sort of come in moderation. Anyone here who has played competitive sports growing up I’m sure will understand that one must take the same approach and mindset toward street fighter. That is, competition is a must, whether it be through money matches, going to tournaments (outside of your area), or just plan wanting to beat the crap out of the guy you hate.
Secondly, you need training, no doubt. How much…well, that’s hard to judge. This is a very debateable subject as one can begin to talk about negative returns and what not etc. Whatever the training regime though, you need the competition mentioned above in order to truly train successfully. Train with a purpose!
Finally, you need friendly help. Now keep in mind “friendly” can be taken in a lot of ways, but what I mean is you just need a feedback system one way or another that you can tolerate. If your feedback system ends up pissing you off all the time, then for real, it is no good. Being jackasses all the time will slow progress down. There is a time for fierce and tough competition, and there are also times were you need to just give friendly advice, without any ego attached. At least that’s what I believe and can give examples if necessary.

With this all being said though, in the end it all comes down to the individual, and how badly they want it. Some want it bad, some just play for fun, and some want it bad but don’t have the time to invest to reach that next level. I think figuring out which one you are and then playing the game accordingly will make it the best experience where one gains the most out of this whole competitive street fighter scene (where the gains of some may not necessarily be placing the highest).


#11

I agree with this. With me being so young, I have a lot of free time in the Summer. I mostly just play SF a few hours a day. I consider myself to be a decent player but all my playing doesn’t really pay off to everyone else’s years of tournament experience (compared to the two tournaments I’ve been to).

I personally think getting better requires playing in casuals and in tournaments frequently. My first tournament I went 0-2 because I had only played online and I didn’t really have a grasp of how to actually play SF. At the Super launch tourney, I think I improved the most in teams, with Jamie’s coaching. His sideline coaching honestly helped me improve more than any amount of time I had spent playing online before that.

I hope to be a top player (at least a top Canadian player) one day, but I have a lot of time for that to happen. :stuck_out_tongue:


#12

Meh, a lot of the community is held back by pettiness, arguments, and cliques. We’re not really a community, more a fragmented set of people who happen to play together.

Yeah, it hasn’t worked for 7 years, I doubt this tactic is suddenly going to magically start working now.


#13

I was actually under the impression that all of Ontario became a lot better and was able to improve tremendously thanks to Pownz, TFNS, JS’ house and whatnot. Was I wrong?


#14

I don’t think Anant was specifically referring to POWNZ and stuff. Those places definitely were a positive in the scene. The cliques and fragments, to my knowledge from what I have heard from the history of the scene, have always been there and seem to stem from like he said, pettiness, saltiness, and overall people just taking the game maybe a tad bit to personal.


#15

Guys the States does just as much as we do, if not more… and look where it has gotten them. Bring that animosity into Street Fighter and reap the benefits…


#16

Hey Anant did you went to EVO2010? I was wondering did you and Teddy went there. I wanted to come this year but I didn’t have enough money to save up. The Legend will definitely be there next year.

By time Marvel vs Capcom 3, Tatsunoko vs Capcom and King of Fighters XIII will be out. I want to play all these games and more. Watch out a Legend is coming through!! Thanks man.


#17

the way I see it, it’s all about the pool of players
the people in the states all have practice partners and push each other up, same with Japan, etc.
Basically if one person can learn the game faster than others, he’ll basically drag everyone else he knows along with him. But then again practice is still vital =P


#18

Alright, first major tourney and I must say that there were a lot of suprises. I’m not going to speak about how I did in Street Fighter, since I didn’t focus at all on it leading up to EVO. However, me and my bro went to EVO primarily for Tatsunoko vs. Capcom(a game that has no scene essentially here in the GHSF) but I think we did pretty good for what we had going in. We both ended up getting eliminated in the semi-finals of our pools to top players. I ended up losing to Kurasa in the winners bracket(who came in 5th in the end) and had I gone on I would have fought Justin Wong in the finals of my pool.

Granted that we were both in difficult pools, I think for us it came down to not being exposed to certain things we had never seen before. We both came very close, but in the end we just didn’t have the experience.

In terms of the debate going on here about our level of skill as a community, from day one I have held the strong personal belief that in the end doesn’t matter how much you play, but who you play. And I don’t mean playing top players all the time, but different players who bring different things to the table.

A personal example I like to use is when I first started getting into the scene a couple of years ago. Marvel was my game and I had played it with my buddies for years. Sure I saw the top players and tried to emulate their style more or less. As I slowly got to play more people outside my circle of friends my eyes started to open. I remember the first time I play Jiggabry and he busted out an MSP team against me( I had never played against and MSP team) and he absolutely destroyed me. I knew what I had to do, but I couldn’t do it. He showed me that blocking in Marvel is an art in itself.

The time put into a game is a personal thing, hell you had guys who play games for a living at EVO and can’t even make it Top 8. What we need as a community is more cohesion if anything.


#19

That last post of mine came off pretty douchey, but I still do stand by it. Rob is right, I think POWNZ and TFNS and even JS’s house have hugely helped the community. However I still think we have a ways to go in terms of just being open and friendlier to newcomers and hell, each other. If you’re serious about getting better, you not only have to play people better than you, but help people worse than you improve. When the competition you’re used to beating gets stronger, you have to force yourself to play better in order to beat them.

No insult was meant to anyone. It’s like someone in Arizona said, it’s just a natural effect of 99% of competitive gaming communities.


#20

Speaking from St. Kitt’s as a relative newcomer to the scene, I have to say that the Pownz crowd as well as a lot of the general GTASF area have actually been really welcoming. It’s been great slowly becoming integrated into the community, even at the bottom of the ladder. I feel like I’m learning something every time I play within the community, even if it doesn’t show much.

Honestly, a bit of patience is all that’s needed really. As far as the top players, they just need to play each other more and take each other seriously. I really don’t feel like JS owes me anything, so I’m not going to be asking him for tips when I could get the same advice on improving my game from someone closer to my own level.

We’re definitely getting there, I’ve seen improvements in our players between now and when I first started coming out. Sure, I’ve seen some plateau as well, but that happens to everyone at times.

I think what we’re really missing as a community though, is the post-game talking about the game. I know once in a while that’ll happen, but I feel like if we wrapped up casuals earlier than we normally do and went and hung out and just talked about each others’ play, we’d see a faster improvement.

Hindsight is key, I guess.