Evo and Smash Brothers: Brawl vs Melee


#1

I’m not sure how the games are picked for Evo, but I think this needs to be said at some point, and I’m sure it’s been said many times before I am about to say it.

Melee needs to continue at Evo, and Brawl needs to be ignored.

Brawl may be the newest in the series, but after several interviews with it’s creators, it’s been established as a game that was meant to counter it’s own arrival into the competitive gaming scene.

Melee is a much faster, and much more skill is required to learn the basic techniques than can be said about Brawl.

So basically, as a top Melee player (I placed 9th in Melee at Evo World last year), a devoted Smash Brothers fan, as well as a longstanding member of the competitive Street Fighter community, I vote that we choose Melee, if any Smash Brothers, for Evo.

It’s simply a much quicker game to run a tournament for, and above all, much less boring to watch. I like all Smash Brothers, I just don’t see anything unfolding for Brawl to make it a better tournament game than Melee.

Just my thoughts. But I believe that the attitude of a large percentage of the Smash Community is similar to this. My two cents.


#2

I got 7th at Evo East, so do I count as top too? lulz

Sadly, I don’t agree with having Melee over Brawl. Melee won’t draw the larger amount of people. Melee won’t turn casual players into tournament players. Melee will only draw hardcore, elite people.

EVO just needs to fix their horrendous rules and go with that 99% of the community wants as rules.


#3

I completely agree, and I know a lot of people who would be overjoyed to travel and pay to compete in SSBM at Evo.


#4

I remember you well, man. Good times in Connecticut, dude.

But I can’t disagree with you more.

As a state, the largest tournament we have ever done in Georgia for Melee was Smash Aid 7. It was an incredible amount of people for one tournament. Ever since then we couldn’t get the number of people to come back to our state.

But since the release of Brawl, everyone has started Brawl tournaments. Something about this has made large Melee tournaments much more desirable to travel to. Thus, I give you:

This is going to be, hands down, the largest tournament ever to take place for Melee in my state. The pre reg alone, which doesn’t cover everyone, already has 150+ people on it.

Melee is growing in popularity, if anything, because the people who were die hard fans for it still remain, and those are all the people who threw out money to travel cross country to such events.

And since Evo takes place in Vegas, I’d say it’s a really good idea to cater to those who are actually going to be able to make it all the way to the middle of the desert. In actuality, the people that are actually going to be at Evo. It does draw in the elite, but at this point in Melee, if all the elite for Melee met at one tournament each year, it would be about the size of Evo, without having to be part of it.

But I love Evo so you guys should do Melee again.


#5

Youre just above the IQ of an an idiot. Can you please tell me a Brawl tourney close to the same size of the melee tournament this weekend thats not Final Round? I dont think so. Melee is coming back, Brawl is going out. Give it up.

I just read NeoBlankas post, I guess I was a little late. But you have got to be more sensible. Rather than bringing in 800 new people who won’t make it past their first competition because they are so unbelievably outclassed( Thats the kind of people Brawl brings, too bad so sad) Id rather have the 200 people striving to be the best ready to bust the chops of anyone that stands between them and their rightfully deserved number one spot.


#6

In before Wiz closes.

Even tournament-standard rules won’t save Brawl from being Brawl. It’s an abomination when it comes to competitivity, and there’s just no reason to have a paid ladder for it when we could just as well play Melee in its stead and have more accurate standings.


#7

I don’t see why he would close this thread. To me it seems as though this is the main topic of debate.

The obvious choice for Evo to anyone that doesn’t play Smash is that Brawl should be there since it’s the new one, but no one is accounting for the fact that Nintendo pretty much admitted ruining the competitive edge of the game in order appease a wider audience; in other words to make more money.

They took out all the difficult aspects to our community’s game in order to satisfy those that agreed it was much too difficult to learn. I don’t think that is the same crowd of people that meet once a year for Evo. It’s about the gaming elite coming together to battle for the number 1 title, and just about every decent to top player in Smash agrees that no one cares who is number 1 in Brawl, due to the fact that it is such a terrible terrible game.

For those that don’t believe it’s an awful game, look up ‘tripping’ and ‘sweeping’.

Case and point right there.


#8

Speaking as a 5 year melee veteran and a person that completely dropped melee to play brawl for about 3 or 4 months straight, and as a player who placed well at the last major melee tournament…

I completely agree. Brawl is brawl, and I think if anything the horrendous rule set in place for brawl at this years evo is a reflection of the horrendous game it is. I could go into greater specific detail about it, but the general consensus in the Smash community is that melee is the only game worth competing over. Granted even melee isn’t the best fighting game, but its a good one, and it at least isn’t a joke like brawl.

You’ll still be drawing in big crowds with melee… maybe brawl will be bigger this year but eventually all the brawl players will most likely scrub out and just quit, and melee will still be there.

As a person who cares a lot about the smash community, I implore you to bring melee back.


#9

Melee should deffinatly be in >Brawl.

I’m sure anybody(everybody even) in the smashboards back room would agree.

Quoted for truth.


#10

Hey guys, how about you set up your own national Brawl AND Melee tournament! How awesome would it be that you guys had nothing to do with evo. I know I’d be a happy camper, and you guys would be too!


#11

I don’t understand why so many people just straight up hate on Smash Bros. Just because it’s Nintendo characters it can’t be one of the most fun games I’ve ever played since Marvel 2?

Just because it’s geared towards kids doesn’t mean it’s just for kids, and just because Street Fighter has more martial arts style violence doesn’t make it more adult.

Knowing all games and engines improves you at every one. I know this as I’ve stretched a professional gaming career across several different competitive titles successfully. Hating on our game proves your intolerance and nothing else. It was still $5000 dollars to first place at Evo last year, just like every other game. Just because you don’t want to play it doesn’t mean I don’t want that $5000. More for those of us that can enjoy varieties of games, rather than just hating anyone out of my genre.


#12

I don’t see Pablo hating on it.

It’s Wiz’ freaking tournament, if you guys don’t want to show up then don’t bother showing up. Go hold your own nationals or whatever.

Personally I love Brawl.


#13

Let me tell you what NO ONE should want to see. It’s the smash finals, game 5 (or 7, or whatever the set decider would be). Both players on their last stock, high percent. Thousands of dollars on the line, crowd’s getting into the match, stakes are high…

Player 1 trips. Player 2 fsmashes. Game, set, and match, here’s your $X,000 check.

:lame:

Now, there are a multitude of other reasons that melee is the superior game - far greater depth of play, faster paced, FAR more entertaining to watch, to say nothing of already possessing a die-hard scene whose members have proven themselves willing to travel to big events (see the above GA tournament). But honestly, I don’t see how the issue should even get that far. The idea of including a game where the game engine itself is DELIBERATELY DESIGNED TO RANDOMLY SCREW PEOPLE in a major competitive event just seems ridiculous.

As an aside:

First of all, we do, on a pretty regular basis. But that’s neither here nor there.

I’m admittedly not on these boards that often, so maybe I’ve missed some deep affront that one side or the other has committed that has forever pissed off the other. But this attitude totally confuses me. I play melee. I also play guilty gear, would get into marvel if there was a scene where I lived, and generally enjoy checking out other good fighters. Same goes for tons of other melee players I know. I also know a fair amount of hardcore GG/marvel/3rd strike/etc players, and while most of them aren’t particularly into melee (though some are), they generally respect the game as being deep and competitive, just like we (with the exception of some uninformed minority, which is inevitable) tend to respect the above games as similarly worthy.

But theses two communites constantly bash each other, and I’ve never gotten why. We’re all doing basically the same thing within our respective communities - trying to get better at whatever game it is we play, organize tournaments, and etc. The only difference is the specific game being played.

So why the hate?


#14

That pretty much summed it up for me.

Also, I’ve been a part of both communities for years, and I love all fighting games. I really have never understood why people love to insult what they don’t understand.


#15

Don’t be so arrogant as to think that we as a smash community need evo at all to thrive. We were around hosting tournaments (with larger turnouts than evo ever got last year for melee mind you) way before Evo picked it up, and if evo drops it forever, its a shame but not a death blow. If I may clarify when I say I implore you to replace brawl with melee, I really mean it in the sense that any rational human being would implore you to replace Shaq Fu with Guilty Gear, if that ever became the case.

No one is arguing about Brawl being a good or bad game. But you’re absolutely kidding yourself if you think Brawl is anywhere near tournament worthy. If brawl is kept on, I doubt you’ll see any real competitive players at this tournament. Especially with its current ruleset. But whats terribly wrong with suggesting to take it out for melee instead? If Wiz’s sole purpose in hosting brawl is for the turnout, then I have no problem letting evo do their thing and I will respectfully wish everyone the best of luck as they combat broken gameplay, tripping, and absolutely overpowered recovery. I’m not gonna sit here and act like Brawl isnt a huge attraction, but

A: It will probably be short lived, like most other new fighters. Its the flavor of the moment. Oh well.

B: It still is bottom line a very poor game for tournaments.

So while the general consensus (Barring people with missing brain steams) is that Brawl is really a joke for competition, If that isnt the sole driving force in adding it, then what are we to do?

Bottom Line: Brawl is not a good tournament game, and if the aim of evolution is to host games which are conducive to good competition and require some unique skill, they would be wise to replace brawl with melee.

But I hear that Accent Core is not on the Evo circuit this year, and if thats true, that pretty much answers whether or not Wiz will listen to this topic or not.


#16

Can I ask you why? As a competitive fighter, it’s a proverbial genetic dead end. It has no place next to games like Street Fighter, MvC2, Guilty Gear, and even Melee.


#17

Haha, the amount of denial (and also fail) in this thread is amazingly high. I seriously haven’t had such a good laugh in awhile, thanks guys, I needed it


#18

I think there needs to be made a distinction between need and want.

The smash community as a whole does not need Evo to survive or grow. There are alot of smash tournaments being played worldwide on a regular basis.
However the smash community do want to be at Evo.

The argument that the community does not need Evo doesn’t really make any sense unless games are included into Evo out of pity for the community… oh wait, CvS2.


#19

Brawl is gigantic. And as you can see, I’m active and attend a lot of events, and I’m a top player. I know what I’m talking about with Brawl.

Edit: Chaddd, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you as a player and I love your Ganondorf. Just letting you know so there’s no hard feelings. I wish I played you with Sheik so you could have played my best, but Ganondorf dittos are too awesome.


#20

Genetic dead end?

Holy shit, relax.

It’s fun to play, end of story, seriously.

edit: WOOOOOOOOOOO GO 49th place!!!