EVO console controversy: Solved


#1

I’m going to be succint, and to the point, and end ALL of this discussion about console vs arcade cab, SRK vs the players, good vs evil, blah blah blah. This post will solve the entire issue…and still manage to be long.

The Real Issue: What is EVO?

If EVO is indeed a convention-like event where the majority of players are coming to have a lot of casual games, meet other players, and hang out, then console is the obvious correct choice. It saves time, money, and provides the opportunity for a lot of casual play, filling in those awkward spaces of “having nothing to do” between tournament matches. Since the numbers attending EVO have grown, and the crowd going to EVO is ever-changing, it appears that this may be the correct assumption.

But, if EVO is indeed the biggest, best, most serious Street Fighter tournament in the United States (and in the case of MvC2, the ENTIRE WORLD), then arcade cabinets are the correct choice. The top-players of ALL Street Fighter games are accustomed to this venue, this style of control as well as these versions of the games. Having an all-arcade tournament caters to these top players…the players that pretty much created the Street Fighter community, popularized it, and turned it into what it is today. The players that were around before the era of multiple thousand-dollar first prizes and thousands of attendees.

So that’s the issue: What is EVO? Has it grown into a convention where thousands of fighting gamers can get together and have fun, and a lot of casual play? Or is EVO the biggest, best, most serious and meaningful tournament EVER?

The PROBLEM is this:

Everyone seems to think to call EVO one thing, you have to sacrifice the other. It CAN’T be a convention and a serious tournament all at the same time…this is the general consensus, it seems.

Why is this?

The Cannons have told us that…NO MATTER WHAT…Evo will be console this year. Because it’s for the best interest of EVO and the players attending.

The Cannons are right. Making EVO console will help it to grow, and give the majority of players something to do instead of standing around during tournament matches.

But let’s say that Justin Wong, undisputed MvC2 champion, loses at EVO this year, for the first time in 4 years.

Well, because EVO is console, you have just negated the accoplishment of whoever beat Justin, and the significance of the loss. Because Justin has always been accustomed to playing, and winning, on arcade cabinets…on that specific style of control and that specific version of the game. You can attempt to emulate it by sticking velcro to his joystick…you can try to slow down the speed of the game by giving him downers and getting him drunk…but the fact of the matter is, no matter WHAT you do, Justin did NOT just lose his MvC2 crown. All he lost was a tournament in a slightly different game, from the one he rules in.

What you’ve done, by going to console, is made several thousand new players happy, but made the few hundred top-players who have stuck with the SF community through thick-and-thin VERY VERY unhappy. Because you’ve just destroyed the legitimacy of ALL of their tournaments, at the event that USED to be the most meaningful tournament of all.

Why do players like Seth, Chris Li, and others come out to SUPPORT console, despite the fact that the legitimacy of tournament play is degenerated? My guess would be that the games they were top-players in…Super Turbo and such…are no longer the top-played games at tournaments anymore. YES there are significant differences in the DC and arcade versions of ST, even MORE SO than MvC2 in some cases…but these guys have played so long that it doesn’t matter. I don’t think anybody is really going to put up a stink if Cole doesn’t win ST at EVO this year, because the game is old. HELL, the SRK staff have been trying to GET RID of ST from the EVO lineup for years now. These OG players support console because, despite the fact that the game they ruled in is now old and losing interest, they want to see thousands of gamers come together and have a good time. If EVO is purely arcade-cabinet, this is not going to happen…all you’re going to have is a mass boredom and a bunch of happy top-players.

But CvS2, MvC2…these games are still HOT. They are the two major games that SF players are coming to EVO to play, the REASON that most top players are coming. To destroy the legitimacy of the tourney play in these games is basically to say that the tournaments at EVO don’t matter, and are only a side-attraction to the convention that EVO has become.

So we have the issue, and the problem. What is the solution?

It’s pretty simple actually.

The Cannons have rented out two rooms at Cal Poly this year. Twice the space, GREAT idea.

One room should be totally for casual play. Unless you’re playing in tournament, on deck to play, or have a vested interest in what’s going on during a match (your teammate is playing, etc.), then you’ll be in the casual play room. This room is strictly bring-your-own-console (and/or stick) to play casual play games, chill out, hang out, have fun and act stupid. Kill time between your tourney matches. Eat a big messy grinder over somebody’s head and spill saunce on their back, whatever. Have a vid feed into this room from the tourney room, so if anywhere before the top 16 or 8 players there is a great match (like Justin vs Soo), EVERYBODY can see the match. This way, there is no RUSH FOR THE TOURNEY ROOM when a top match takes place.

Then there is the tourney-only room. The games are on arcade cabs, for the games that need to be: CvS2, MvC2, ST, 3s. If a game like Tekken is more commonly accepted on PS2 than on arcade, then that version is used; if not, arcade is used. Nobody can complain that matches mean nothing, nobody can complain that it’s a different version of the game than that they’re accustomed to; EVERYBODY is playing the most popular, well-accepted versions of their respective games. ALL serious tournament players are happy.

And, coincidentally, ALL casual-play players are happy.

The one forseeable problem with this perfect solution?

Money, and availability of cabinets.

But guess what?

The SRK staff have dug their own graves with this one. There is nobody to blame but themselves.

In all the efforts to “evolve” the Street Fighter community, to make it larger, more widespread, more accepted, EVO has become huge. There are so many players that qualifying rounds take too long, and there is nothing to do between matches. In the old days of a few hundred players, this was not a problem; but with the possibility of 1000+ players attending EVO, this is a DEFINITE problem that will occur.

But this is the problem that comes with growth.

Do PC game tournaments have one large-scale event, with all qualifiers, finals, and casual play all held at the same time?

HELL NO. They understand the money/time/availability constraints that come into play with tournaments.

But the organizers of EVO have not had the foresight to predict the problems that were inevitable when a tournament grows to the extent that EVO has. And now, EVO is put into the situation where either one side or the other gets screwed…either the majority of casual, normal players get screwed by being bored all weekend with nothing to do, or the top-players get screwed by being forced to make compromises on controls and versions of games they’re not accustomed to. If you were a pro baseball player, and suddently you had to play with a whiffle ball bat, and the rules of the game were SLIGHTLY changed…so much so that you weren’t even sure what the difference was until you were tagged OUT and the game was over…how would you feel?

On the flipside, if you were a ballplayer, but you were only allowed to play one baseball game every 6 months, how would you feel THEN? Both situations suck.

What can be done?

The only thing that us, the common players, can do, is voice to the SRK staff that doing EITHER of these choices in unacceptable. It is absolutely unfair to demand EITHER a totally-console or totally-arcade cabinet tournament, because EVO has grown too large for either of these alternatives.

But rather than just voice our opinions, let’s help out too. It’s easy to just complain all day on the internet and do nothing constructive for the community. Instead of just whining and saying that the current state of EVO is unacceptable, let’s help out for once.

I propose that everyone that reads this, donates $1 to SRK.

This may be next to nothing in the long run, but at least we are ALL at least doing SOMETHING to try to help out SRK, and show that we are willing to help out to make EVO the best tournament EVER. And I think that EVERYONE here…even the poorest of the poor students…can afford ONE DOLLAR.

There’s nothing left to be said. To leave EVO as it is means to screw over a group of players, and that is unacceptable. So let’s all show that we’re willing to help SRK out of this slump of a problem by showing our support.

After all, we’re all gamers here. All we want to see is Street Fighter be as successful as possible, and have the best goddamned “event” that has ever been. So let’s fucking stop talking and DO IT!


#2

I like this idea a lot… this makes a lot of sense and I hope this is seriously taken into account…

Lates,

ROB_UNR


#3

the solution sounds perfect. and if everyone DOES band together to donate that $1 or more each, then it might actually help at least a lil bit.


#4

i agree with this idea… even tought its a lil impossible… … it would work if every1 banded together … but i mean we’re talking about SRK ppl here i mean these dudes are lazy enough not to take showers do u really think they’ll give up one buck?..

on a related note… i’ll donate some cash… 2 buck… 1 for me and 1 for soomighty… cuz i really want him to come and take it this year… heck man i’ll even let ya borrow my DC and MVC2 to help ya practice :o


#5

Yo, THAT’S an idea. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that nothing at all is, or is ever going to be changed. I have no proof but I am getting that vibe.

Some kind of compromise would be SOMEthing.

Apoc.


#6

just have Ink give the word, and I’ll donate 2 dollars.


#7

Sounds like a good idea … I’ll drop $50


#8

hell yeah man tat sounds like a good idea.

i have donated $10.00 before to people to help out there gamesite. so i would defniteley do that.

would it help if i become a premium member?


#9

People had their chance to donate and help EVO last year and in the end, didn’t come through. You know on the whole the SF community is notoriously cheap (although there are special cases). It’s just not a smart way to plan/pay for an event with money that’s not already ion hand. I mean come on, is it really reasonable for the Cannons to count on potiental srk user money to help them pay for an event that is having the checks writen for it as we speak. Coming by boards and cabinets is always the most difficult part of putting on this event. If they have trouble getting all this stuff together in a city the size of LA, all things point to the fact that it’s too difficult and something needs to change. Time to enter the console tournament age gentlemen. Ultimately is better for them and better for us, you know I’m right.

-wes


#10

so sad but true… well the attempt was made.

R.I.P

arcades u shall forever be missed:(


#11

Like someone stated before, the main event, the tournament, the reason that makes EVO the biggest of them all, should be held on cabinets. Hold those team tournaments, grudge matches, etc on console.

Oh, and Justin has won on console (NEC).

I think donating will help tremendously. How much is it to rent cabinets? I’m willing to donate at least $20 if it means getting more cabinets.


#12

I think what we’ve all seen from this thread, and the copy of my post in Seth’s sticky thread over in Fighting games discussion, is that

PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY MONEY IF THEY CAN PLAY ON THE CONTROLS AND VERSIONS OF THE GAME THAT ARE TOURNAMENT STANDARD.

If the Cannons would have just asked for help with EVO, this would have been discovered a long time ago.

However, they didn’t. They just decided that they would make an event-changing decision without even consulting the people that “supposedly” the event is being held for.

I don’t know if either of the Cannons, or Wizard, or any of the crucial SRK staff have read this thread, or my other replies. There have been no responses, so I have no idea. But if you want EVO to be without controversy, and TRULY the best ever:

Put on the main page of the site, that if you want both consoles AND arcade at EVO, to donate a few bucks. YOU WILL MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO DO THIS. You’ve just never asked before, only ASSUMED that nobody cares, and so you make rash decisions.


#13

Yeah I thought if SRK needed help with EVO or thought that they might have had to switch to consoles due to cost or difficulty of finding cabinets, then they should brought it before the SRK forums and asked what they wanted, if they were willing to pay more, if they would help with locating cabinets and venues.


#14

I’ll bite a little here. Donating money is good and all, but it will still be tough to solve the problems assosciated with finding enough cabinets AND boards for the tourney. I recall having trouble just finding BOARDS to use to fill the machines because, since arcades are dying, very few arcades had any boards to spare. So even if we did get the cabinets, we may not have any boards to fill them up, especially if we try to get as many boards as we can get consoles.

Back to the cabinets: don’t forget, last year at Evo there were NO STANDARD ARCADE CABINETS. They were ALL the 33 inch-ers. Those are much tougher to come by, and they are also much harder to get inot the place and transport. AND they are far more expensive than your standard cabinet. And there isn’t a huge stockpile of those thigns in the first place like there are normal cabinets. So that’s cool if the arcade near you in, say, Michigan wants to donate a 33-incher, good luck getting it here.

Also, don’t forget one MORE problem with cabinets: the US vs. Japan scenario. TONS of matches were put on hold because we only had one Japan to American cabinet setup, so we had to swap between games, holding stuff up tremendously. Things got really held back and bottlenecked because of the Japanese players needing to play on their style of cabinets. So not only would we have to get 33-inchers, we’d also have to get around 8 to 10 Japanese cabinets to match the speed of Japanese players getting to play that we can get on consoles (2 machines per arcade game so we can have US vs. Japan and Japan vs. Japan setups).

There is a lot of issues involved with obtaining the stuff, even if you do donate a bunch of money. So while the thought is really appreciated, I’m not sure if it’ll necessarily make it as easy to solve the cabinet problem as you make it seem.

  • James

#15

I don’t think it’s that simple, just like James Chen said. Donations aren’t going to solve the problem if the cabs aren’t available or are too far to transport. Inkblot also specifically said they’d run into trouble even though they were offering to rent the cabs from an arcade.

I’m not really all that familiar with the arcade situation in cali, but just knowing what we have to do to get 5 cabs for final round and how much of a bitch it’s been, getting 30-40 cabs has to be damn near impossible even if you’re waving money in peoples’ faces for the cabs. The ones we’re getting aren’t even the deluxe ones that were at Evo either. These are the typical smaller ones. I think some of the people complaining are asking what is no longer feasable considering the current state of arcades.

Anyway, not everybody is going to be happy with whatever the outcome is here, but the cannons and the SRK staff have done good stuff in the past so I’ll trust them.


#16

Well if it was explained like that in a big news post it would’ve cut back on the confusion.


#17

Well you can’t say that they aren’t tedencious.


#18

How about you give it up Phil… you said it yourself the cannons made up their minds.


#19

I guess I should give it all up. Actually caring about the community and the quality of tournaments, instead of the quantity of players, is a lost cause. Especially when the people who have the money and power to run a large-scale tourney like EVO are so closed-minded.

SRK has let themselves blow up their own heads, and egos. I guess that they think having EVO with 1000+ random people who don’t really care and 100 good players who do care and are unhappy, is a good event. In my opinion, it’s not. And I’ve been around since the days of World Warrior, and have seen every kind of tourney imaginable.

I tried to discuss things civilly with both Chris Li and Inkblot last night. Chris Li apparently got angry that I wanted to have a conversation or something, or else has never had a legitimate conversation over a chat program…because for whatever reason he got mad that I wanted to talk and reply to his points, and signed off. Inkblot decided to stuff cotton balls in his ears and say “I’ve said everything I have to say on SRK.”

These are the people we want running the largest tournament, that represents our entire SF community?

Do we want a community where the voices of the top-players…most of which have come out AGAINST the 100% console idea, except those affiliated with SRK to begin with…are totally ignored? Not even addressed? Yeah, I’m sure the 1 minute “velcro stick” video is going to assuade all my fears about the differences between DC and arcade versions of games, stolen sticks, malfunctioning sticks, and a host of other problems that nobody seems to want to talk about.

Give me a break. People said that my “DEVO” video from last year was going to divide the community. But if you REALLY want to divide the community, just ignore the opinions of the players who’s voices should matter the most. Now you have the allegiance of 1000 new players and zero top-players. Have fun with YOUR SRK community.

But don’t even try to call it Street Fighter.


#20

The only reason I left is b/c I couldn’t get a point across…once someone starts talking/typing/whatever before someone is finished communicates the message that they are

  1. no longer listening
  2. too interested in what the response will be.

I give the example at work all the time: I could walk up to some people that work with me and say “Hey I just ran into your car with my car, it’s messed up pretty bad, probably totalled”

first thing is that the person may freak out…what they dont’ hear is the second sentence:

“I’ll give you a million dollars cash for your trouble”

Granted I work with hard nosed military people where they’ll hear the first thing out of someone’s mouth and not get the whole story.

The simple reason I signed off is I don’t need to get involved in the usual DSP type-master argument. I do not post nor chat when arguments are going on and was trying to make a single point. No one enjoys being cut off or interrupted when they are trying to get something across…I try to hear your point, so you should try to hear mine, it’s common courtesy.

Phil - I am not your enemy in this, you know that as well as I do. I suggest you do not start pointing fingers my way and trying to direct your anger my way and call me out. You know me better than that.