Evo is coming. Are we fighting anchor Vergil wrong? Did Justin do the wrong thing?


#1

A recent match above between Wong and PR Rog. Everything was going pretty well. Popped XF1 on a happy bday (which yipes didn’t approve of cuz dark vergil), but he killed 2 people and Vergil took the incoming mix up. Everything was going good till he dropped the last part of the combo.

Needless to say he lost, but should he have snapped in that situation and force XF1 Vergil in instead? Then fight lower health Wolvie and Doom after? Was it worth it to pop the XF and give up health regen, guard cancelling and being impervious to chip?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lFGZnbBtWY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

In the set of Fanatiq vs. CJ, you can see how Fanatiq makes it a priority to snap Vergil in on the majority of the matches. Its easy for people to just say LOLXF3 Vergil, but if you’re playing against an anchor Vergil you know why he’s there and why you should force him into an XF1 situation when possible.

Obviously this issue compounds when fighting a Morri/Doom/Vergil, but are we at the point yet where snapping Vergil should be more important than the death of the point character? Should forcing in XF1 or 2 Vergil via snap be the standard like it was vs. Vanilla Phoenix?


#2

Snapping in is pointless for 85% of the cast IMO. At the start of the round, after snapping, you’ll be left with no meter and most chars can’t kill him even activating XF1. Phoenix has 375 health so anyone can kill her. Vergil is simply too strong and he’s part of the reason I can’t really take this game seriously competitive. Just look what Rog did to Justin, Rog hasn’t even been playing this game that much and he demolishes a Marvel God in mere seconds, it’s ridiculous. As far as Fanatiq goes, he plays Magnus so he can kill Vergil with ease by locking him down with Drones, I suppose Justin could do the same but it is very character specific and bottom line is, it shouldn’t have to be this way.


#3

Firstly, I’m not sure if you play the game that often if you’re supposing snapbacks leave you with no meter. You already built 2 plus meters before the snap. Meaning that after the snap you lose one meter and then hitting Vergil is effectively the same as if he was on point. Build 2 meters, kill him off. You don’t just snap on the first hit, you build all of the meter you can first and then snap. In J.Wong’s situation he landed a happy bday which doubles your meter gain per hit and then activated XF1 (XF gives you faster meter build as an extra boost) so he was up 3+ meters before a super situation. No excuse there.

Plus on top of that Vergil has no air movement options. It’s harder to put Phoenix in a mix up to begin with because she has some of the best air movement options in the game. Vergil basically has to come into the mix up, is locked out from using his assist for about 5 to 7 seconds, and can only utilize level 1 XF. That’s basically easier to deal with than Phoenix by a considerable margin.

About the Marvel God thing…Justin was a god of Marvel 2 and was still very beatable towards the later years Marvel 2. Marvel 3 is a different game and Chris G is the only thing that is close to a god in this game (and still gets beat). It’s obvious by Justin’s team that he is not concerned with being a god of this game any way. He’s mostly there to play his best with the team that fits him.


#4

Naw I think he made the right decision. I don’t necesssarily know about popping xfactor to do it but he made the right decision to keep it going. Its just one of those things in this unbalanced game. Snapping Vergil would have had him dealing with Wolverine Doom later and thats still a nightmare in its own. It may be “the least of the evils” but he got rid of 2 problem characters. He had the match just an error allowed Vergil to do what vergil does best.


#5

In general I think snapping should take priority but it depends on the situation. In Justin’s match, he just dropped the combo and that was his fault but under the same circumstances I think he’d do it again. Choosing to give up two characters for a snap is an expensive decision, even more so if your characters don’t have super strong incoming mixups after a snap due to set up time. Wolverine does however, which is why I think he was justified there with his only downfall being himself.

I think the decision is easier to make when you only hit one character, but getting a happy birthday just turns it into a very important decision. Kinda damned if you do, damned if you don’t, where if you fail he’s gonna put on swords and start doing his thing and have enough time to regain his ability to call assists, or he’ll come in with XF3 and smash your whole team. Vergil is going to be coming into the same situation anyway so I think people people prefer to fight it out with a full team if they get 2 characters at once.


#6

Yeah Wolverine/Doom is still strong, but it’s not as strong as XF3 Vergil. It can’t totally deny your supers and projectiles and teleport like XF3 Vergil can. Which even then Wolverine still has to land safely for that to happen. I personally don’t find too much sense in not getting rid of the team’s most powerful character first, regardless of what’s to come. After popping XF I would feel it would be more important to snap Vergil because XFGC (and XF in general) is one of your strongest tools vs. Dark Vergil and giving that away to kill 2 characters that aren’t as strong as Dark Vergil doesn’t really seem safe.

Snapping and killing Dark Vergil and having to fight two less than half life characters that aren’t as strong as Dark Vergil sounds like the safer bet to me.


#7

Option that nobody has considered is to, in the case of a happy birthday, snap when the assist dies but before the point character does. In the case of chrisg’s team, this would force anchor morrigan at very low health or XF2 vergil, which i think both of these situations would be better then XF3 vergil, and chrisg would only have a meter build assist for vergil so you don’t have to worry about an assist breaking any punish opportunities, nor ridiculous mixups. Just hope you can keep up with XF2 vergil. Also, XF2 doesn’t last near as long as 3, so you can rest assured it will definitely run out before he fully kills 2 characters.

no matter what, you will want to take out vergil when he is incoming. People need to invest into characters that have unblockable setups for incoming and make do with the character they chose (firebrand, viper, x23 with 3 meters, etc). Strategy prevails over tier


#8

I’ve played about half the cast in this game and trust me, most of them suck at building meter. Not all of us play point Mags/Doom or other meter building machines. Although suppose you do XF kill him, you’ll practically still facing an uphill battle if the opponent has a shell such as Morri/Doom, since they’ll have meter, XF and you’ll have neither.


#9

I don’t mind killing 2 characters but if I HAVE to burn xfactor I am waiting til the latest possible minute to pop it. In most cases I will just continue the combo without xfactor as if its just 1 character and if I don’t kill I will have gained plenty of meter and put the oppenent in a Fucked up situation. Usually chip out the 1st charcter setup the second character and either land a hit or chip (all will gain meter) and then wait for Vergil (final boss) and continue to do what I was doing or wait to xfactor cancel rapid slash or some other unsafe bs AFTER he has popped his.


#10

I dunno why Justin wasn’t snapping in Eduardo’s Vergil, especially after he was doing the same to Kazunoko’s Vergil at SEAM2013.


#11

I think the excitement from the happy bday clouded him up from remembering that he’s basically giving Dark Vergil a huge incentive to win. In most matchups getting the bday and killing them off is the best option, but against a Dark Vergil you’re making his job way too easy blowing all of your resources to have a chance against him if he lands safely.

TAC infinite = build meter and they die if they guess wrong. Plus most of the better cast can build good meter before they DHC. I see you have Wolverine in your avatar but you’d have to tell me which characters you are using that have such a problem with this. Even Spider Man can get to 2+meters at the end of his combos. Morrigan/Doom still not as good as XF3 Vergil so might as well go the fuck in. Morrigan/Doom/Vergil forces you to play a good team though so, you’ll have to account for that against Morri/Doom/Vergil.

Which really, a team like Nova/Spencer/Strange would be good enough damage wise since you can build meter with Nova, snap in Vergil, kill him with raw tag combo that builds like 2 to 3 meters and then start to go through the rest of the team. None of those characters are even top 5 (at least IMO) and they can make it work.


#12

You’re probably right overall although my teams cannot execute this strategy effectively. Hawkeye/Dorm/Doom and Doom/Morrigan/Phoenix. I used to play Wolvie, although I just like him as a comic book character, hence the profile pic. Plus, I was getting blown up with Wolvie because I’m just a few months into the fighting game genre and I simply don’t understand fighting game fundamentals well enough to play that style successfully. Berserker Slash - Plasma Beam can only take you so far, lol. I feel playing zoning teams is better for me at this point as a developing fighting game player. I get blown up by all kinds of rush down though, that’s why I play Phoenix. I think DP is still 5-5 against Vergil because I get the transformation, hence no incoming mixup. But that’s just for my teams, every player needs to analyze their own teams and determine the best strategy.


#13

snapping is considered a waste nowadays?


#14

He should have not dropped the combo.


#15

LOL. Yeah now that Phoenix has been nerfed everyone just wants to play 1, 2, 3 knockout Marvel again.


#16

Why is Doom on point? IMO this team would be better served with the standard configuration of Morrigan before Doom (missiles assist natch). Even if you burn meter for Astral, you should be able to build it back up quickly enough in it. Also, if you got touched, you would be better off with Doom with no Harmonizer assist than with Morrigan with no Missiles.


#17

I would assume it’s like a weaker Dorm/Morri/Phoenix where you just runaway with harmonizer till you get 5 bars. That’s the only scary way to play that team.


#18

It’s actually stronger overall than Dorm/Morri/Phoenix because Dorm is horrible against rush down at the start of the round, Doom is much better at dealing with this. Dorm/Morri/Phoenix works best against zoners, aka Chris G, although I’ve seen him working on those soul steal combos at Next Level, which is bad news for Champ. Champ is just playing for Phoenix, I actually try to play all the characters. Morri/Doom/Phoenix works too, although I usually like to build 3 bars and then tag her in to do the sister act. I do love that this team gives me a lot of flexibility with meter, although I’m not a big AV fan and feel it’s most definitely OP against most chars. Except Vergil of course, he crosses you up, you miss your unfly and you die, lol.

On an unrelated side note… With Morrigan, what’s the best start of round option against Hulk? Most people think it’s Shadow Blade, but I personally don’t like hovering above the Hulk and possibly even getting my fly input crossed up. I was thinking crouching jab works best, thoughts?


#19

id snap based on what character sucks the most/what my opponent is weakest with (if i know them well)

snapbacks should never be considered a waste IMO. the disruption to your opponents strategy is too valuable


#20

They’d be a lot more valuable, if the point character would slide to the second position and the second char would slide to anchor. As it stands, too many players tag in their point back and their team order is back in sync.