EVO Player's veredict: Keep HDR or go back VST?


#1

OK, so here’s the deal
this thread isn’t about what version of the game is better
there’s already a big thread about this here

The purpose of this thread is to discuss what game is better for the community to keep at EVO. As you probably saw on the thread I linked above, it seems that a lot of people prefer Vanilla ST over HDR, that includes OGs and respected new school players.

I like ST better as well, but at the same time, I also think that it would be better for the community to keep HDR since its appealing to new players, and anything that contributes to the growth of the community should stay. This year HDR had more entrants than Marvel, and ST never acomplished that in past years.

Even though HDR is essentially the same as ST, the twists give people the feeling that its something new, and that helps a lot, so I dont think that using the classic mode version on HDR is an option, that and EVO finals this year were really entertaining for everybody to watch, even if they were not familiar with the game, while if you didnt know anything about it last year, it was very easy for the ST finals to look boring.

Now, this is just my opinion.
I do expect however that when it comes the time for the EVO staff to make a descision about it, the latter will be based on the majority’s opinion.
Regardless of how much I agree with NKI’s arguements for example, I don’t think his voice should sound louder than the majority’s.

Discuss…

EDIT: I forgot something, plz dont bring that stupid “HDR can stay if a patch is made” arguement.

WTF is that???, that shit just made people lazy
back in the day we had broken shit and we adapted to it instead of crying on a forum asking for a patch, so plz, dont bring that arguement here, be a fucking man
if a patch comes, fine, but dont count with it, just stay with what you have and adapt.


#2

For what it’s worth, the only console version of vanilla ST that the community considers to be acceptable anymore is that of the Dreamcast and, as of Sunday night, Evo no longer owns any DC systems.

A statement from a number of months ago, attributed to one of the Evo founders (Ink or Ponder or Wizard, can’t remember which one), went somewhere along the lines of “If HDR isn’t good enough, then SF2 is out completely.” Hopefully I’m not butchering the actual quote too much, but basically it presented the clear ultimatum that it’s going to be HDR or nothing.

Of course it’s not like they’ve never changed their minds about anything in the past, but no matter which way you slice it that statement was a very strong one.

edit: wow typos


#3

HDR…Its the reason I went to EVO for my first time and reason other people I know personally who went for their first time as well. HDR brought me back in fighting games.

I respect ST players and their opinions, but the crowd was into HDR during the finals, and I feel if its VST is chosen for future evo you will not see an interest in participation from new comers. Do not get me wrong I love ST, but HDR is the new game that has been presented to us, why give up on it.


#4

HF.

I kid, but seriously… I don’t think it matters which version we use. HDR is fine, even if it is the version I like least.

EDIT: For the HDR players, does it really matter that much if Evo unexpectedly switched to classic? Sure, the game has been tweaked immensely, but the general notion seems to be that Remix isn’t necessarily more balanced or fun than ST (it might be, we are splitting hairs here) but that it is just a different alteration of many of the same aspects found in the original arcade game.

I guess I don’t understand this uprising for or against HDR or ST. They are both almost the same game and no HDR-native player is going to feel at a disadvantage playing ST, and vice versa (NKI, Afro Legends… top players and their nitpicking aside). I prefer ST all the way, but at the end of the day, my preference comes from probable fanboyism and refusal to accept change.

Again I ask - why does it even matter at this point? HDR was a success - keep it. Let us old folgies have our side arcade tourneys. But HDR fans should really consider why they so vehemently NEED to have HDR be the standard as opposed to ST.


#5

Uh…classic mode reintroduces N.Chun and O.Sagat and has an assortment of changes reverted…it makes a massive difference if Remix of Classic mode is used.

How many Sagats did you see at EVO? Now how many do you think you would see if Classic Mode became tournament standard for EVO 2010?

This. It’s HDR from now on or no SF2. Unless EVO decides to revert back to AE on PS2 (doubtful) the closest thing to ST is HD Classic Mode.

HDR is probably the new tournament standard for EVO and will officially end ST as an official game. Regional tournaments, arcades, GGPO, and the Japanese will always have ST though. SF2 survives at EVO only with HDR Remix Mode.


#6

Like I said, this thread is not supposed to be a “what game is better” thread.
Its about what game will contribute more to the community, and if evo changed to classic mode, I can asure you that would hurt EVO’s numbers really bad.


#7

HDR all the way.

My personal preference is that i prefer HDR not only because my fave character (dictator) was buffed up a little bit and lost some of the infuriating gaps in his design because of it, but also because I genuinely think the game, as a game overall, is better for the community. Sure, some people lost out and some people gained by their character being buffed/nerfed, but I think as a whole, the remix was a more positive than negative thing, and genuinely brought the game into more balance. More characters from the roster can at least compete now, instead of the usual 4 or 5 wiping the floor with everyone, which makes it a more accessible package with more value in it, and gives us more likelyhood of varied matches at a tournament like EVO.

I?ve said it before, and am at risk of being flamed for it I?m sure, but all of the arguments that say VST is better than HDR are rooted in the ?my character got nerfed in HDR? argument. If you actually step back from your character and look at the game overall, and the affect that changes to each character had to the overall balance of the roster, HDR is not perfect by any means, but it?s a more rounded game and an improvement over VST, and has a lower entry point for a new player, which is what we need if our community is to stay strong.

On top of that, the new graphics updated a game that, much as I love it, was starting to look graphically very stale. For all these reasons and more, i think HDR, along with the new fanbase it’s brought to the community, should be the standard going forward. It looks fresher, and new faces are playing it along with the old guard of top players, which has got to be better for EVO and the community at large than sticking with a 15 year old game with it’s own established player base, that, much as i love it, is never going to bring in any new blood to the scene.


#8

Again.
this is not a what game is better thread.
This is a what game is better for the community to keep thread.

Going back to Vanilla ST is an obvious mistake and it will hurt the community regardless of what game is better


#9

Although both games are fine, HDR should remain the standard. New players will be bred through the years exactly the way they were in ST.


#10

I don’t know if you read my post pre-edit, i have a feeling you did, but i did try to keep to the “community” side of the argument.I genuinely think HDR is a better, fresher, more accessible, and more balanced game and is better for the longevity of SF2 as a whole, and should be the standard at EVO and other major championships going forward.

In my oppinion, HDR is SF2’s swansong, and it’s finest hour, and it should be the competition standard for the series going forward until SF2 has left the scene entirely.

PS- I am so tired of SRK’s rep system, and being knocked into red everytime someone disagrees with me. Come on guys, knock it off.


#11

Oh Im not trying to flame you, Im just trying to stay on subject, cause lets say someone disagrees with your opinion that Bison was buffed up and then he quotes you and then you quote and then someone steps in and then we get off subject :rofl:

anyway, Vanilla ST is a game that people have to accept that its time on EVO is done, and it will be gone for good, they should adapt to its replacement even if you consider it unfair.

I love 3s, but Im a strong supporter of the game being removed from EVO next year.


#12

HDR is probably better for the US community, even if, as others have said, it isn’t my preference. If we do go back to ST, it would probably be HDR Classic Mode, which I would be fine with, and while I think some interest would be lost, a solid portion of the new HDR players would make that transition, despite a few huge changes.


#13

I want World Warrior back.

And and MackDaddi, don’t feel bad about the rep system. Could be worse. You could be me! Booyah!


#14

I should just quote MadGrab (HDR was the reason I came to Evo as well) but I think HDR should be used going forward.

Obviously the game isn’t perfect, but it’s certainly much more balanced. In my opinion Sirlin proved that point by picking, and nearly winning with Fei and Cammy in the finals. He won a game each with Fei Long and Cammy against Choi and Graham (respectively.) That’s huge! As far as I know that’s the first time Fei or Cammy have ever won a game in the Top 8. Plus there was a Honda in the Top 8 that wasn’t Kusumondo or Shogatsu. That’s also awesome.

I think this game could be exciting for years to come. I know there are many possibilities yet to be discovered in the game, and I really hope players are given the shot to show what is possible.


#15

Don’t worry about it. If what you’re saying is worth listening to, people will take notice regardless of whether you have a red bar under your name or not. Just accept that some folks are going to throw around negative rep for very little reason (I got neg-repped for predicting Choi would use Ryu, in the Evo predictions thread, haha), and don’t sweat the bar. If your posts are gold, that will shine through no matter what the rep-slingers do.

As someone who prefers ST over HDR, I’d say your argument here is the one that I find the most reasonable for keeping HDR over ST, and falls in with why I think sticking with HDR at Evo is probably the right choice. While I know and love ST, HDR has more room to grow, while still being mostly the same game that we know to be quality.

I’m usually not the biggest fan of the “ever forward” mentality of competitive video-games. As others have mentioned in the past, I think there’s something to be said for a stable, persistent game. Much as people would scratch their heads at someone suggesting that an updated chess-based game should replace the game of chess competitively (remember 3-D chess?), I tend to not follow the logic that the “new iteration” should replace the old. However, just as there are rule-changes in sports as the game progresses, some changes clearly needed to be made to ST. While HDR is more of a completely new iteration of SF2 than the tweaked ST I (and I assume others) were hoping for, it’s pretty clear that ST’s following wasn’t as strong as HDR’s is, and without competition, you don’t have a game. So if HDR is where it’s at, bring on HDR. I hope fifteen years from now, when today’s up-and-comers are designing Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix Plus Extra Mouthful Edition to update the game again, I find myself looking at HDR as fondly as I do ST now.


#16

VirtuaFighterFour: I have to disagree. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for HDR - but you can’t possibly tell me a top player is going to do worse due to switching to either ST or HDR. They are interchangeable in terms of game mechanics. Yes, there are a lot of significant changes, but I highly doubt that is game-breaking. If any HDR gamer says they suddenly won’t play ST at a major cuz of whatever list of reasons they state HDR is better and that ST feels foreign to them, that is plain silly.

As someone who is in the thick of the ST community, I’ll admit we are anal ****s. All we need is for SRK or EVO to establish the standard. 3s has ps2, cvs2 has ps2/dc, MVC2 now has XBLA once it drops. I definitely think HDR should be the standard, due to console logistics and so forth, but I just don’t see why anyone should fire a ruckus over whichever way it ends up being.

I hope all of that is clear; I may be confusing due to my lack of sleep.

Ninja EDIT: As you said, GGPO and arcade tourneys will always have ST. It seems Evo would be endorsing HDR solely - doesn’t that in itself explain the hilarity of the dilemma?

J.D - I apologize if what I said seemed to imply I am trying to debate which version is better - rest assured, I am not. I applaud your thread and I am eager to see what people respond with, but I also think this is a very silly issue.

Super Ninja EDIT: I am going to get shot in an alley for this, but I might as well put it out there - if we are concerned with tourney turn-out (we should be, our community depends on it) why don’t we use HF? I stated as a joke before, but seriously, that was the most popular iteration for SF2 for both casual and tournament players. I may be wrong, but isn’t HF still the best selling XBLA title ever? Doesn’t that tell us something…?

Sorry I raided this thread. I’ll go lurk now.


#17

Well, I’ll stick to my original words: HDR had to prove that it would bring a player base not composed solely of OG ST heads. And since it was the 2nd biggest tournament at Evo (and the largest SF2 showing of any Evo?), it’s hard to argue that HDR shouldn’t be used again.

I still prefer ST and urge HDR-only players to try the original for an extended period of time if they haven’t already (GGPO is always full of competition), but HDR at another Evo isn’t a bad thing if it keeps bringing a lot of players.


#18

I left before finals/ What were the results?

OH, BTW- Thread answer- I’ll play what ever is in front of me. I do have my personal prefrence. But, that is irrelavent as to what is best for the community.

I just think the we need to come to a dinfintive answer, so we konw there to spend our time practicing. As far as I konw, Wiz has said its HDR (period), and that has not changed.


#19

Afrolegends stole it away.


#20

Afro Legends beat John Choi. Afro used Balrog and Choi used Ryu. Good stuff. By the way which character end up beating you? Were you using Sim?