EVO Player's veredict: Keep HDR or go back VST?

I played stupid in winners finals in pool 5 to a claw. He beat me far and square. I was sent to losers, had good good set agaisnt Diago in losers finals, but lost… So, close yet so far. Fun none the less :tup:

So it was:

3. ???

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix Tournament Results

  1. Hung “Afro Legends” Nguyen (Boxer, Dee Jay)
  2. John Choi (Ryu)
  3. Damien “Damdai” Dailidenas (Ken, Zangief)
  4. Graham Wolfe (Boxer)
  5. David Sirlin (Fei Long, Cammy, Dictator)
  6. Louis “Thelo” Paquin (E. Honda)
  7. Alex “CaliPower” Valle
  8. Alex “Sin” Salguero

Keep HDR.

It was such a relief not seeing anyone not being able to run to O.Sagat in the Top 8. Hell, no one used Sagat in the top 8.

Anyone know how many Sagat players there were?

I can’t remember seeing a single one.

And not a single Sagat in top 16 SF4.

I smell a conspiracy.


lol, i was so fucking hype seeing people use characters other than ryu,balrog,sagat for a sf2 final. Sirlin playing fei and cammy was too gdlk ie “fuck the haterz my game is balanced!@!” and “watch me serve john choi some humble pie with fei” were probably the thoughts going through his head.

I was yelling at him to use t. hawk instead of bison for that last set aginst graham (he almost did too!). That way, all the people who gay up the forum and complain about their low tier characters can see that winning, even at the highest levels, IS possible.

It was so weird to see Diago go straight to losers bracket after his first HDR match. You kinda get the feeling that he was non-plussed with HDR.

Back on topic: It was incredibly refreshing to not see any O.Sagat bullshit. Even more refreshing to see a watered down HDR Rog win the event. HDR for the fucking win.

let’s be really honest, there’s no turning back.

when was the last time you saw an st tournament grab that many entrants?

i would think srk.com would want the community and evo participation to grow, and going back to st, when many of the people here don’t even have access to it anymore… you would just be alienating people who just got introduce to hdr, and street fighter for that matter (assuming hdr was their 1st sf game).

there is ggpo, and classic mode online for xbl and psn. do you see participation in those growing? do you see it growing larger than the hdr scene? i occasionally log onto classic mode online, and i’m the only 1 there.

ask yourself, what’s the main reason you want st to stay (actually, st isn’t going anywhere anyways)? it’s probably due to your own preferences for that game that have grown over the years, kinda like how some sf2 players can’t make the jump to 3s, and how some 3s players don’t even want to give pre 3s games a chance. but the difference in hdr and st isn’t even as big as those games.

do you want to keep st because the japanese aren’t playing hdr? how many of us have actually battled japanese players or plan to battle them in a tournament setting. i don’t think a large amount of you plan to compete in sbo. the players they have sent here in previous evos weren’t even st specialists, they just happen to play it and be good at it also (when daigo, nuki, tokido came, they were here mainly for cvs2, 3s, etc. japn has never sent anyone like shootingd, yuuvega, kurahashi or muteki). correction: i think gian had been here before, but besides him, who else has shown interest?

just becuase the japanese play st hardcore (?), it doesn’t dictate the scene here. for example:

vf has a huge scene in japn and asia in general, but you don’t see that game exploding in usa.

usa loves mvc2, but japn could care less about that game. it still doesn’t affect that scene at all.

it seems like some of you guys don’t want to give hdremix a chance to grow/develop. you do realize that there’s always ggpo and the comp there is better anyways right? who delute it with beginners and people who probably won’t devote the time needed to get good?

and let’s be real, isn’t it somewhat refreshing to see less o’sagats?

There’s always a possibility of turning back. Everybody thought the DC version of ST was bunk after its initial year but instead, it turned out to be the most accurate port and was used again. Still, it would be silly to turn back right now after record HDR numbers.

I think the main question ST players have is whether the majority of HDR fans prefer HDR because it has updated visuals and is easily accessible or whether they think that the new changes to game mechanics make it a better game. Whichever is the case, we owe it to Sirlin to give HDR the benefit of the doubt right now that all of its changes contributed to its popularity.

However, while it’s clear that many ST players know the HDR changes by heart (because they’re basically playing ST with HDR changes in mind), it’s less clear that HDR players have given ST a chance. Plus, I hope everyone realizes that the top 8 this year were originally all ST players.

As for JP players, Kusumondo attended Evo just last year.

Keep it, Its a breath of fresh air these days. As much as I like the original I was getting tired of looking at it.

Keep HDR. No O. Sagat is reason enough.

It’s no secret that i’m a big fan of HDR, but I really think sirlin has done a good job of justifying the point of the whole project by being able to even compete at all at top 8 level of EVO with feilong, dictator, and especially cammy. I mean come on, CAMMY in the top 8 of EVO for f*ck sakes! if that doesn’t vindicate the whole basis behind the remixing project, then nothing does.You’re either going to buy in to it on the strength of that, or you’re not gonna buy in to it at all. Sirlin has really let his fingers do the talking to his critics with that one.

A honda in the top 8 was great to see too. Well done Thelo!:tup:

To stay on point for the thread though, all of this shows that HDR is a more viable game to stick with for the future than ST, with a broader base of more balanced characters, and more options to be able to genuinely compete regardless of which character you pick, instead of the usual mains we’ve all seen in the top 8 for years. (sick of old sagat fireball barrage nonsense anyone?). This balance, combined with the graphical overhaul that HDR has got is why it should definitely be the competitive standard for SF2 from now on, otherwise we risk tying ourselves to a game that will fade, and bring no more new blood into the scene. I love ST, but Why stick with an older, less well thought out, more bugged, less attractive game, when there’s a newer, better looking, clearly more balanced, more popular and more widely playable game that has clearly been embraced by the majority of the community (old and new) instead?

I agree with this. I’m excited to see the majority of responses on this thread being pro HDR. I don’t think it’s going to spawn a completely new learning curve like, say SFIV has done, because it’s still the same ST engine at it’s core, and the majority of what’s in it has been seen in some shape from the ST players that have come before, but there are enough new tricks and shenanigans as a result of all the minor tweaks to the cast to allow a whole bunch of cool new ideas to come into the already tried and tested gameplay, and to keep it fresh and new for years to come.

Personally, even selfishly though, I am honestly so glad to see a game with the pedigree of ST literally having what could be another 5 or 10 years worth of viable competitive lifespan breathed into it by HDR. I had never played a fighting game that came close to the level of balance that ST had until i played HDR and i honestly doubt at his stage that i will ever see a fighting game that’s better. It’s the pinnacle of all fighting games, anywhere, ever, as far as i’m concerned, and i’m just so glad that it now looks like it’s going to stick around and that i’ll be able to keep honing my SF2 skills for another good few years against plenty of serious competition.


Keep HDR in please theres no bs in it.

and Guile is actually playable in HDR

I would like to see HDR continue as the single player tournament game for 2010+, because:

  1. it’s the “new hotness” on the scene: people (the masses) get excited jumping on board a new game from the start (they feel it’s “their” game)
  2. it’s widely accessible/supportive to players as a new game, a game with a sizeable active playing community, and a game that is both affordable and supported on the 360 and PS3. (ideally perhaps it would also be offered on PC and Wii… but that is just impromptu thinking)
  3. it’s gotten some impressive momentum legs following its 300+ turnout showing this year

I would like to see an official EVO ST 3-on-3 (players play in set order with set characters, single match elimination per player, [very likely] only 1 version of each character allowed) tournament at EVO 2010, because:

  1. team requirement and running parallel to HDR would reduce the number of entrants. (likely to just hardcore)
  2. single match elimination format speeds through 6 players at a time of 3-5 matches.
  3. 3-on-3 encourages wider character roster given that teams can cover characters with bad matchups
  4. finals only to be run on final day (or have full event wrap up before final day), to ensure only small time taken up by event.
  5. is a nod to the “best of” historical fighting game roots, could encourage some great players showing up/playing, gives the top players an ST option that is both fun for them and a format rich back in Japan.

Somethings to add, but DO NOT reply to them in this thread.
(start a new thread on them if you want to address them)

  1. I’d love to see rings/bracelets/chains/etc. given to 1st place winners of each EVO tourney.
    Poker has it, sports have it.
    Give the West Coast and East Coast some bling to flash.
    Give the pros something to flash at the tourneys.

  2. I think an exhibition match for a handful of Japanese ST players (in Japan) on an HDR cab set-up for them [like the ones at Comic Con] would be GREAT PR for the game.

  3. Mackdaddi, I hope you don’t worry about your rating negative hits. I don’t consider the rating relevant, and value the people in the community by their posts/participation/play/etc.

I think it’s pretty obvious that HDR beats ST as far as overall character balance. Mad props to David Sirlin for serving us Cammy and Fei Long complainers some humble pie…and, of course, to AfroLegends to winning the whole thing. He definitely earned his fight money. (rimshot)

Incidentally, how many different characters did all of the tournaments have in the top 16? In the top 8? I’m wondering if HDR had more characters than any other game.

^we all know the results for top 8, this is from the top of my head

9-cole (sim)
9-zass (chun)
9-victor (?)
9-bbh (bison)
13-kuroppi (honda)

there was real good variety for the tourney

Keeping HD Remix is the winning move.

that reeks of top 8 bias <_<

STs an awesome game, no arguments there… but lets move on. There comes a time when everyone notices their lady, after 15 years, is looking a little older and less exciting, and you move to the hot young thing with high definition.

One thing i was really impressed by, watching the results, is not so much the much lauded ‘zomgfeimadeittop8’ (which is impressive, but sirlin is a monster). it’s more that sirlin’s vision of narrowing the tiers, but not destroying them seemed to have worked. both sim and rog received next to zero love in HDR, as well as more than a few subtle nerfs. but, while a more niave designer might have just wrecked the top tier characters, and call it balance, it is no doubt apparent that both are still a pretty dominant force.

honda probably gets the ‘most improved’ trophy which is what everyone has been saying for ages.

it’s just good playing a game that feels like it has a 16 character roster, instead of 6. it’d be nice if we had 17, but that’s how things go…

I prefer to think of it as your lady getting a makeover and improving what she has and you preferring the improvements over lamenting the fact that she had the audacity to interrupt the aging process.

I’m a family man that still plays Street Fighter, I guess. :slight_smile: