Evo2k4 Post Mortem


#139

I don’t always agree with Apoc, but damn that guy is slick.

I really don’t understand WHY there is no A3 still, people have offered boards, people have offered cabs, and yet SRK still doesn’t want to do it? What if it was completely self contained, i.e. the players run it all, handle maintenance, bring in the equipment, etc. But you still have it under the list of evo games, would that work? Or even better, since you want turnout for A3 before resubmitting it, howabout having it as a semi official tournament(ie what I described above) until it gets to a certain body count(64 or something, I dunno what you guys would want) and if it does, THEN you could start supporting it more. It wouldn’t detract from the event, cause it wouldn’t bother the rest, but if it DID get enough people then it would qualify as a game you want to run, thus making everyone happier.


#140

Thanks for misunderstanding my post.

All I’m saying is that some people like arcade, some people like console, and some people like both. People shouldn’t be up in each others business because they think their format is better. If you don’t like a tournament format, then don’t go to those tournaments.

Console and arcade are different formats. There is a lot of overlap, but people shouldn’t expect the arcade players to jump at the chance to play on console, and vice versa.

Most of all, I’m saying that people should a) do what they enjoy doing and b) give back to the scene that they enjoy.

I should add that people should stop trying to run everyone else’s life. Hypothetical example: If you don’t like the fact that PS2 urien guardbreak happens later and you can’t hit-confirm the lowfierce for the juggle like you can on arcade, you don’t have to play in the PS2 tournament, but you shouldn’t hate on those that do decide to enter.


#141

The way the Cannons decide which games go into Evo is generally based on the size of the scene. GGXX players wanted it in Evo, so we held big ass tournaments and the Cannons noticed. 3s players wanted it in Evo, so they did likewise. The A3 scene, as far as I can tell, never really organized its ass well enough to pull that off.


#142

Yeah, A3 crowd has been consistent in not really liking any of the console ports (Saturn is best, but the hardest to find). So there haven’t been as many tournaments post-CvS1, since it’s not a hugely popular game. I’m ready to break down and hold tourneys on the DC version…this coming from a guy who plays Rose, and you can mash out of Rose’s Level 2/3 anti-air super by mashing the kick buttons on the DC/PSX version of the game (btw, Really, Capcom? REALLY? Fuck you too.)

It’s TOMA, actually. Sorry to nitpick.


#143

A3 is pretty damn dead. People complained that at Evo there was no A3 even in the BYOC room. There was an XvSF tourney, some random SNK games, but no A3. Lot’s of people say ther like A3, but nobody makes any effort at all. All the people who chime in with “me too” in threads about A3, why not bring A3 to the BYOC room and play it? Not doing yourselves any favors…


#144

No offense, Pat, but you HAD to use the word “generally” and even you knew it.

See, the US NEVER got into VF aside from the smallest possible pockets. It was never even close to A3 in popularity. If it is now, it’s ENTIRELY due to Evo’s support.

That’s my problem. All the reasons and excuses are convenient and don’t hold true across the board. It leads one to believe that SRK finds us stupid. I’m hella sick of them making decisions like they think they know better than everyone else, combined, YET they still turn around and act like they’re dumb. It’s insulting. Whatever excuse they give, the fact remains that, at least, VF had next to no popularity, and still doesn’t even with Evo. Can someone point me to one US tourney for VF that is only VF? Of course not. Would that many ppl travel for VF if not for the draw of the other games as well? Of course not. VF has been held for 2 years and it was the least popular good game in the states and always has been. Um…that’s kicking SF aside in order to force VF to become popular here.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not against VF and have held VF before, myself. However, doing it at the expense of good SF games is a slap in the face to the SFers that made Evo big. I’m not saying that SRK doesn’t get major props for organizing large gatherings but, NONE of it would’ve happened if NOT for SF players in the first place. If you’re gonna force a game into popularity again(like we did with ST), then you should respect the SF players first and foremost. That’s how the shit got so big in the first place.

It’s the same attitude as giving the Japanese preferential treatment with controls. Get a clue and take care of home first. There’ll be a lot less pissed and dissatisfied folks. But on the real, THEY DON’T CARE. Check Inkblot’s response to Ohaya1234 when asked why CvS2 wasn’t 2of3 even though it was said to have been. Inkblot told Ohaya that we turtle too much. Yo, when I couldn’t have HF, I was jumped on being told I owed Choi money cuz he paid for his trip expecting that, among other complaints. But when ppl travel expecting CvS2 to be played as the Cannons said it would, it isn’t even taken seriously. How about just saying “We fucked up and couldn’t make it happen. Basically, what we said ended up being a lie because of that.” That’s the truth. HELL, that was one of the main reasons given for having console, because it would improve CvS2 in that way. So, we were lied to twice, right there. Do they cop to it? Course not. It doesn’t gain props or make them look hot. Fuck being honest and being accountable for what you tell players. Replying jokingly to Ohayo’s post was insulting to me when seeing the nice and mature way Ohayo asked the question. He just wanted an honest answer. Instead he got brushed aside with a laugh. Yeah, SRK cares what we think? Evo is for THEM and not for the players. Otherwise, they would answer to the players. I hear them talk about how much money they put into it but, being real, that AIN’T shit compared to the ammount of money ppl paid to travel and attend the event as well as compete. The players should get props for the turn-out and a big muthafuckin’ “THANKS FOR MAKING IT POSSIBLE FOR SRK TO DO THIS.” They clearly forget that without the players’ money, this shit can’t even happen. No respect. It’s time to fess up. Shit failed in every way that players foresaw. We didn’t have to wait for Evo to see this. SRK didn’t listen to us and the shit happened. Gee, the players were right about the DCs AND the controller issues? Go figure. Who would’ve thought that SRK posters would have more accurate insight into the problems of the event BEFORE it happened? SRK didn’t. Player intelligence just isn’t regarded at all. That shit is mad arrogant. In fact, I haven’t seen one dominant player have that much arrogance in the scene. That shit is mad funny.

Is it any wonder, now, after I’ve pointed out so much, that the SF scene is in jeopardy? SRK needs to respect SF much more and players will follow suit. This “new game” mentality makes the event into the dorky sausage fest of the year instead of the best tournament of the year. If the SF game is good or its’ players highly respect it, hold it, before adding any other games. Be respectful to the players that got them there. It’s not as if they don’t have the ability to please everyone. They don’t even try because they don’t care.

Fuck the mentality that says there will be no games that have had an arcade release by 2007. That’s a recipe for mainstream dumbshit. It might as well be a Mario Party tourney.

Let’s make it clear: SFA3/ST/SF3:3s/CvS2/MvC2…hell, even HF, get so much respect from the players, SRK should honor that and those should be the frickin’ staples of the tourneys. Are they going to drop Tekken Tag if Tekken 5 sucks(I’m sure it won’t but, I’m making a point)? THAT would be dumb. Throwing out the more respected game because it’s older? W…T…F?

Keep the shit respectable. If the new games gather that much respect, then add 'em. If they don’t(like CvS1), don’t bother, no matter how many players like it “for fun” or combos. This is supposed to be a SERIOUS tourney with a serious competitive environment. To do that, you need to have games that are well respected, not games that are just new. Have 'em all if you can. If you can’t? Knock off the least respected non-SF games first until the tourney is doable.

It should be about integrity, not numbers. Quality over quantity(how long do I have to preach that shit before ppl get a clue?). Who cares if Evo gets so big it gets coverage if everyone watching knows it’s a joke?

Have some respect and take care of home, first. That means controls too. Things can be done to make everyone happy without compromising the integrity of the scene. SRK seems to think this is impossible or just doesn’t care about the scene and only care about what it can do for them.

If I’m insulting, I say stop insulting the SF scene that Evo was built upon before telling me to be less insulting.

Apoc.


#145

Firstly, because there is NO CONSOLE version…but…

Because the tourney isn’t official. XvsSF was never a respected tourney game, EVER. It’s a scrub game for fun. More ppl like XvsSF than respect it. Also, there is no console version of SFA3(not a tourney version). So, it pretty much has to be official for ppl to play. Anything less is pretty insulting.

I didn’t make any effort because, unless it’s announced officially, A3 players won’t fly.

They did try to put one up at Evo but, the controls were so horrible and HAD to be set on the table because the cords were too short. It was completely unplayable for me and I wasn’t going to take an hour, while waiting, to get used to the sticks. I love A3 and I didn’t bother playing it more than a few times. Not when jab dps come out as jumping jabs, lol. But this problem goes throughout the console issue.

Seriously, I don’t even play A3 anymore because folks follow SRK and SRK disses it. Therefore, the comp will die or be sub-par.

If A3 were announced for next year, I’d get an x-box, modded, and play on mame. Or use my pc to play on kaillera. Without a serious competition, I’m not going to waste my time with a lag-fighter.

At Evo2k2, we had already dropped A3 until it was announced for Evo. Then we dropped cvs2, lol.

Ppl want to play the games they can compete at Evo on. It’s as simple as that. If A3 isn’t at Evo and there’s no true console port, like me, players just stop playing. That’s on the blame of Evo.

I have yet to see a tourney, run by SRK, that had A3, that had a poor turn-out for it. It wouldn’t happen. Unless, of course, they announced it like a month ahead of time.

SRK can talk all the shit they want but, I’ll believe that A3 shouldn’t be there when they announce it early and they still have poor attendance. That never happened. SRK omitted A3 on their own and, therefore, contributed the MOST to the death of the A3 scene. It’s pretty obvious that A3 needs Evo as much as VF does.

Hell, I would plan the A3 tourney next year and run it with other A3 peeps if it were announced now. That way, if it were messed up or had poor attendance, then they could all laugh and say I told you so. But, that wouldn’t happen. A3 players would be grateful for the showcasing and get back into it. Those, of course, that still play fighting games and haven’t bailed yet. Hey, this way, all the heat would be on me. Of course, the idea that it would get a great turn-out and make SRK look like asses for the past 3 years is enough to deter them from the idea.

But let me make this clear, my complaints have little to do with A3 and everything to do with the mentality of SRK. Why, when I post, do ppl, SOMEHOW, think that I’m talking about A3 underneath it all? WTF? Are the real points so incredibly hard to gather? Try reading my posts without SFA3 on the brain.

Apoc.


#146

That said, let me talk about A3 some more.

For what it’s worth (not much, but), staffing will not be a problem if an A3 tourney were run at Evo. While I may not agree with the SRK staff’s descision, I do understand it.

I do think Apoc is correct. If SRK announced tommrow that CvS2 or MvC2 or whatever weren’t going to be at Evo next year, there would be fewer tournaments for those games too. You may see MWC or ECC get a few more entries, because people spend their traveling money getting there instead, but it would definitely hurt the scene.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that no A3 at Evo contributed to the scene’s death…the fact is, people could have started holding their own tournaments and start the scene by themselves, like people started to do with GGX/X, or with 3S, but because of a couple of issues (ie somewhat shady ports, and the game is just old and sometimes hard to find), people decided not to. Woulda coulda shoulda, didn’t. Would the game being at Evo helped the scene a lot, and made it much bigger than it is now? Fuck yes. And, to the best of my recollection no one has ever stated that it wouldn’t matter if A3 was at Evo, because the game wouldn’t have gained any populairty or momentum. That would be a retarded claim. But I find a statement like “if you can get 64 people for an A3 tourney, we’ll see if we can throw it into Evolution,” to flawed. It’s hard to get 64 people for Marvel anymore, depending on where you live.

Blah blah. It’s my day off from work, so I’m posting a lot. I’m just some guy who misses A3 and wants it to be at a major. I’ll probably still show at Evo next year.

N-Ken: that’s a good question. I honestly don’t know if there are enough people with A3 boards to make that proposal, however. What would be nice is to have a World Championships of A3, like FFA did with 3S. Be hard to schedule (you couldn’t have it at FFA, because if you have an A3 machine and a 3S cab in the same room, they start fighting). I will try to throw something together for Evo next year, even if it’s just 5 Dreamcasts running A3 in the BYOC room…

Edit: oh, I forgot. There’s this thing that happens where if you use two incompatible sticks, the 2p one(?) won’t register on DC A3. Sorta like in MvC2. I think they both have to be MAS sticks or something…? I dunno, I’ll look into it. You win again, gravity…


#147

I am from Seattle although I am in no way saying that I am speaking for all players from Seattle. That being said I have spoken to some Seattle players about this past Evolution and next years Evolution and all that. The players I spoke with felt that because Evolution is console there’s nothing really to look forward to anymore. We (the players in question and I) thought of Evolution 2k3 and 2k2 and even B5 as a culmination of our efforts for that year of gaming. The tournaments we played in and the practice sessions we had were, in at least some small way, thought of as practice for the major we all would be attending that year. That being said with the choice to put Evolution on console it seemed to us that the experience was cheapened. I myself hate console tournaments. I have never played in a console tournament (aside from maybe a 1 dollar for fun tournament at Cody’s house or something) and I’m certainly not going to start now. I don’t see the point in driving 1k miles to a console tournament when I won’t drive 5 miles when there’s one here.

A lot of people talk about all games will be console so why not go console now? Well that’s fine. Maybe someday all games will be console. However, Marvel and CvS 2 aren’t console. These are the two main games being played in the US (vs. series and sf respectively) That statement may not hold 100% true for all areas but for the general majority I believe that to be true. These are arcade games that are still played by a great deal of people in the arcade. These aren’t straight to console release with no arcade cabinets in existence. If a game comes out someday that I play that’s console only then I will attend console tournaments because that’s the only option. However, when you’re talking about an arcade game being played on a console at the biggest tournament of the year that’s just insulting.

I realize that perhaps there are financial limitations to cabinets to be considered. However, I haven’t personally heard this for a reason as to why the switch was made to console so if that’s the case then perhaps I could be enlightened. The only reason I have read is that it’s because all games will eventually be console and this will make the transition smoother when that happens. The scene here is fairly dead at the moment. A lot of people feel if there’s no big tournament at the end of the year then the overall drive to play isn’t there. Hopefully the next tournament will turn things around but you never know. The players I talked to thought that instead of Evolution we might as well go to ECC or something like that. If it’ll be an arcade tournament then it would make more sense to go to that then to Evolution. We want to play an arcade game on in an arcade environment, meaning a cabinet at the very least. I realize my opinion won’t matter to anyone really but I felt after reading a bit of this thread to give my input.

In closing I had a great time at B5, Evo2k2 and Evo2k3 and I really hope that there will be a reason for me to go to Evo2k4. If not, ah well. BYE BYE


#148

I was just making an aside about A3, I basically agree with most of what Apoc has said. (How much of it I read, anyway…)

I think the basic summary is this: It’s better to have a smaller number of tourneys run right.

More isn’t always better. It’s nice for the community to agree on a small number of games they care about and focus on those games.

I don’t see the point in mixing 2d and 3d games. I can’t think of many people that are genuinely great at both, and the communities don’t overlap as much as you might think. Maybe there are some good organizational reasons, but it seems like a distraction.

The Cannons’ do have a point about game moving towards consoles. Sooner or later, the fighting games worth playing probably will be on consoles only for most people. I don’t know what to do about that exactly, but standardized controls would be a step in the right direction. (No plugging and unplugging, no changing button configs, etc etc - it wastes time and standard controls = level playing field)


#149

someone was playing A3 in the BYOC room. IIRC, dr. b played a few games of Dramatic Battle. most people didn’t even know what that was.


#150

Nah, that’s cool. I think what happened was I just watched too much Azumanga Daioh and my brain warped.

I like the idea that someone mentioned earlier about 3-d games on one day and 2-d on the other. Among other reasons, this would give each tournament more room in which to run their games.


#151

This is a golden nugget of wisdom lost in the sea of discontent of the last 4 pages in this thread.

Please apply this wonderful insight to Evo. We will do everything we can to run great tournaments, but within the Evo format (console). If this displeases you, it is up to you to make a difference in your community. Simply demanding that Evo accomodate your format isn’t going to accomplish anything.

Apoc, I’m talking to you. You will post tens of thousands of words on this forum, but won’t lift a finger to help A3 community yourself. If you cared about the A3 community you would mobilize it. Get people to support what A3 scene there is at MWC. Organize local A3 tournaments. Do something.

Instead you sit on your old-school ass and demand that I do something for you. I was at MWC – were you? Go ahead… I can feel it coming; the deluge of Apoc-text about how SRK is killing everyone and we’d all be better off if I would just die. While you’re writing it, keep in mind that in 2002 3s and A3 were in the exactly the same position – both were exhibitions only. The only difference is that I personally really liked A3, but HATED 3s. Now 3s is the crowd-favorite tournament at Evo, and A3 is dead. I wonder how that happened?


#152

I don’t have time to read any of Apoc’s posts. I have no idea where he gets the time to write them. I thought I’d take some time to answer your questions, though.

Better than what? :slight_smile:

Staying small is relatively easy. Find an arcade, get in good with the manager, and you’ve got yourself a tourney. Until your local arcade closes, or doesn’t get the latest game in because the manager’s afraid to take the risk. What do you do then?

Well, you hit the nail on the head: the biggest reason is organizational. I couldn’t disagree with you more on the “seems like a distraction” point, however. Even if there were 0 overlap between the communities, pooling our resources gives us the ability to do things that we couldn’t individually.

The examples are endless. Without a certain headcount, we couldn’t afford to rent decent facilities to run the tournament. That means the multiple bigscreens, seatings for finals, WWE style introductions, BYOC room, etc. go out the window. Furthermore, external partners just aren’t interested in small time gamers. Namco, for example, may not have been intersted in showing Tekken 5 at EVO if it were only a 120 man Tekken tournament instead of a 750 man mega-tournament.

It’s sooner. Look at all the arcades that have closed across the nation in the past 2 years. How many of the ones that are still open will get GGXX #R? CFJ? Will Capcom even bother selling an arcade PCB in the states? Almost certainly not.

Consoles are a standard accessible to everyone, everywhere. It would be silly not to adopt that standard. The only reasons not to are purely nostalgic, IMHO.


#153

Yeah, I agree w/ margalis about standardized controls. But I think you guys should have setups similar to the japanese 3s setup, or that red arcade panel setup someone had built, except it should of been strapped to the table to have more stablility. Other than that and seating heights, I thought that Evo was quite a success. And Cannons, if you have problems building these things, I’m sure you could go to the Hardware section and ask the builders for help, the community is more willing to help than you think. My apologies if these topics were already brought up, there’s a fuckload of pages I didn’t want to browse through.


#154

THAT’S a golden nugget of wisdom? I understand where Rei is coming from but to use his point to say “if you don’t like it, don’t show up.” is ludicrous. You’re not saying that to anyone but the SF crowd and you probably aren’t realizing. Isn’t it better for the players to make BOTH arcade and console players happy? But…you don’t care about that.

Moving along…don’t take what I say so personally. You don’t think my words have any merit so, why then, do you post the moment you see ppl agreeing with me? Damage control. If SF was a paramount concern, you wouldn’t be hearing shit from me. I should apologize for feeling deceived all of these years, I’m sure. Hey, I backed you when NoCal players were saying you had your own agenda and it wasn’t to better SF. Now, it’s made clear that those peeps were correct and I was the dummy for not seeing it. I honestly believed that you were all about the SF scene. Still, I have nothing against you personally but, SF IS personal to me so I am passionate about what I say. However, Evo is personal to you, so, as an organizer, you take offense. I understand that. Just don’t make the mistake of confusing my bashing of your decisions as a bashing on you. It saddens me that you obviously take personal offense to my words rather than just understanding that I am only one voice. I’ve already said that you’ll obviously have throngs of Smashers showing up to take the place of SFers. Isn’t that enough? To you, that’s a success. I’m not touting the death of Evo, I’m touting the death of SF as caused by SRK. You STILL play dumb after all of these years and act as if you don’t understand that the decisions made for Evo affect the entire SF scene, here. You obsolve yourself of that responsibility but have no problem taking props for what you do. Sorry, you’re full of shit there. I don’t think, and never have believed, that you are too stupid to understand the repercussions of your decisions regarding Evo. PsiANyd laid a perfect example out for you.

Also, when you make a mistake, you won’t cop to it whereas I remember you and other NorCal folks forcing me to swallow my own shit because of how you felt. Yo, at the very LEAST, CvS2 players were lied to. You said that we’d have 2of3 matches because of console(the main point as to why it was a good idea for Evo to be completely console). You’ve shown no humility there because these tournies have made you arrogant. Yet, the whole reason to go AGAINST the GG players was because you had already stated that GGXX would be the game and a FEW would feel cheated. WT FLYING FUCK!?! It’s ok to dis the ENTIRE CvS2 crowd but not a FEW GG players? There hasn’t been so much as an apology for this. Not only are both situations completely fucked up, but the thinking doesn’t even follow suit. It’s convenient. Conveniently stupid, I mean. If someone of your intelligence is going to act as if you can’t see the parallel here then, you MUST think everyone else is stupid.

I won’t lift a finger to help the A3 community? Unfortunately, I haven’t gotten myself into a position to do that. Life gets in the way sometimes. If I had your resources, I would easily do it. It wouldn’t even be a thought. I’d hold it just as a matter of principal. I’d hold it just so that those interested in getting into the good SFs, no matter how old they are, would know that their game, since it was tite, would always have a place for competition. Some see now and wonder if they should bother getting into CvS2 cuz, it’s getting old and won’t be there in 3 years so, if it takes a year to get good without an arcade, and you only get a years’ tourney time out of it, it isn’t worth it. Like PsiANyd was saying, ppl want to know they have that culmination to look forward to. You already let A3 players know that it was over when it wasn’t announced for Evo2k2. That’s when ppl stopped playing. When ppl knew they had nothing else to look forward to. 3s picked up because it was newer and relatively underexplored seeing as how the majority thought it was a piece of crap. You wonder how what happened? Yo, take 3s out of the line up and watch it diminish to nothing. Hell, take away any close console port and watch the 3s scene struggle to stay afloat. Again, quit acting stupid. A3’s omission at Evos was the death of the A3 scene. Ppl stopped playing it in arcades and arcades started losing them cuz they weren’t making jack anymore since no one was playing for the big tourney anymore. You want to blame shit on A3 players, and myself, as if you’re incapable of understanding how this works. Like it or not, Evo decisions affect the entire community. It’s time to stop pretending like you don’t know this. It’s insulting. The more you act stupid and insult ppls’ intelligence here, the more ppl won’t “just trust you.” You’re a smart guy. There’s no way in hell that you’re as stupid as you pretend to be.

Here, let’s do a “do over.” Coo? Let’s act like it’s time for Evo2k2 again and announce A3 as official for next Evo. Then, we’ll see if there’s a huge turn-out the next year! Hey, it’s an opportunity to prove me wrong legitimately. No, pointing the finger at me and telling me to do it myself says NOTHING about the points I’ve made. It’s, simply, a poor attempt to discredit my words without actually having to deal with them. Doing this little experiment would be great for everyone. You could make me look dumb while satisfying a dying part of the SF scene! I know, I know. The SF scene doesn’t mean shit to you.

As anyone can plainly see, this has really little to do with A3 and more about how, and how badly, some decisions are made regarding the SF scene. Like it or not, a decision for Evo is a decision for the SF scene. Don’t be thick.

And no, I never ever wanted you to do something for me. I was under the impression that you respected the SF scene. I didn’t realize that you just wanted to pimp it. I guess I’m a little slow.

Also, I make no mention of you dying. Although, the conveniently stupid decisions should die. That’s what I’m talking about. If you don’t like the impression it gives of you(especially when I cite specific decisions and excuses)then realize that it’s what you DO that I’m talking about. If you don’t like how what you do sounds in text, then do something that might sound good in text. Don’t trip on me for telling it like it is. You sidestep issues while trying to say that you’re not giving the SF scene the middle finger. Sure, you don’t HAVE to explain shit or talk about it, but mindlessly acting like it isn’t there is a big fuck you to a lot of ppl. It wouldn’t be so bad if you just came out and said that you didn’t give a crap about the SF scene and that you’re doing this shit all for you. Then, all the bs is understandable.

If FFA had not had their 3s tourney, there would’ve been a much larger backlash here. FFA bailed you out quite a bit. I mean, if you don’t like reading complaints, that is. They saved you some of the hassle. SRK should be given them an award for steppin’ up to fill a need of the SF scene. Instead, you stand by as some say things like 3s at FFA was divisive.

Seriously, it all won’t matter in the end. The scene will separate itself, of course. I mean, since you don’t care and if peeps don’t like, they don’t have to show up. No one wants to feel like their voice doesn’t matter when they fork up the money to travel to Evo. Eventually, you’ll get what you give from the SF scene. But really, who cares? I mean, as long as there’s peeps filling up your tourney, it’s all good. So, why even address me. You don’t even have the courtesy to directly respond to anything I’ve said, anywhere,yet, you address me to talk shit? Hey, I understand how this shit could make anyone defensive. But after calming down, it should be obvious where I’m coming from. I’m trying to get you to realize that nothing of what you’d done wouldn’t have happened if players hadn’t trusted you and came to the tourneys. The players deserve HELLA respect EVEN if they are JUST players. Afterall, THEY are what make Evo happen. You just organize it. Get off of your high horse and pay attention to that because, it’s evident that a thought like that doesn’t occur to you.

Hey, we trusted you, and now things are big, so…I guess it’s cool to turn your back on folks now, if they don’t want to get in line and follow you. I recall politicians and mobsters going through an issue like this and it didn’t turn out pretty. Luckily, this is just a little hobby. Still, at the very least, don’t spit on it. Jeez. Have a lil reverence for what got Evo where it is. Otherwise, you’re just arrogant, aren’t you? If the players aren’t given the majority of the credit, you’re saying that you deserve it all. Other than organizing, the players are what make it happen. Without them, you have nothing but lost money and a fucking hall or two for a weekend. I guess I suck because I take credit from you and give it to those who pay the money to travel. I’m an ass. I can’t help it.

At least man-up to Ohayo’s post. I’m sure he couldn’t have been as offensive as I was. Why doesn’t he deserve a response. I must’ve missed something. I can understand why you don’t respond to shit I say. I know that. But not other members. Again, I must be slow.

Apoc.


#155

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63590

We said semi-finals would be 2 games, when in fact they were one due to unforseen technical difficulties. Damn, we’re evil.

:mad:


#156

Apoc makes points about what he sees, but they don’t nessecarily represent the ‘community’, just the part of it that he chooses to count. What i’ve come to realize is that maybe i do the same. I feel that my views better represent the people that created the need for an evolution tournament in the first place, but i would rather not exclude family members at the reunion.

I’ve been thinking a lot about this over the few days and i think we can come to some agreement on this. What is right is that we have somewhat of a seperation of the scene, what we want to fix is the idea of them becoming seperate scenes and people bashing the other side and just creating an unfriendly atmosphere, not that there shouldn’t be competition, but not over this, it should be in the games.

The FFA tourney was a good idea, a community creating an event, that accompanies another community driven (yes that is correct) event.

I think the best thing to do is to adopt the idea into evo as follows:

Day 1, or whatever day FFA would be analogous to:

Arcade/Supergun
A3
ST
HF
TBD (To be discussed)
Maybe it’s EVO + Arcade SF championships or something, if this portion has to be held offsite. Maybe wilson can come down and run the one before evo at FFA, or maybe we can get the superguns in one of the halls.

Day 2-*

EVO as normal without ST, but with AE

I think that would maximize both camps, and allow the evo tournies to fill up without worrying about other games, and people who want old school tournaments will have that too.

Thoughts?


#157

I completely agree. That is probably my main issue. Moving forward does not automatically entail leaving a portion of the scene behind. The comparison to a family reunion applies perfectly. Perhaps that’s why I feel that they just don’t care. Instead of even trying to satisfy those that made Evo what it is, they are trying to gather more mainstream recognition for themselves. I’m not against them going mainstream, but not at the expense of the foundation scene.

The fact that Evo is now separating the scene is a point that seems to be lost on them. Maybe, I’m mistaken. It is clear, however, that there is no desire to satisfy everyone. That is unfortunate.

Another issue that is glaring to me is that SRK seems to link the arcade standard of tourney set-up with the arcade industry itself. That is a HUGE mistake. Just because arcades are closing up does not mean that we should abandon a proven and well-respected standard for something less so. That’s what’s been done. Yes, there were some great matches at Evo this year but, only half of the ammount that there could’ve been because half of the players, even the ones that like console, lost because of the control issues. So, even if it was only 1 or 2 matches per player, those matches may have, just as well, not taken place since those players could not perform 100% EVERY TIME THEY PLAYED. Because of this, some results are skewed and therefore, can’t really be taken seriously. That’s too big a price to pay at a tourney that, before, was prestigious.

It doesn’t matter where arcades are at. The tourney set-up was never in question with the players. I’m all for making room for pad players but not at the expense of other players. That IS NOT A solution.

Yo, for years ppl have been practicing at home on console and yet, we always had the majors on specific controls. Hell, there was a time when folks would not travel unless perfect 360’s were clearly advertised so that the players could ensure accuracy. Now, it really doesn’t matter what sticks they are. The simple fact that things can shift, even by a millimeter, is enough to make a dp into a fireball and vice versa. SRK, being around as long as it has, should understand this. Now, it seems that they’re just saying “fuck it” and think that it’s dope that they obsolve themselves of any responsibility as far as controls since we can bring our own. That, alone, compromises the integrity of the event.

I agree, find a way to please everyone. Don’t just make drastic changes while pretending it isn’t a big deal. That’s insulting. There is no respect given to the scene when, in reality, there wouldn’t be an Evo if not for the players that have been loyal. Some loyalty to those players, first, is in order.

I don’t post complaints unless the issue is serious in regards to the scene. Instead of taking things personally, ppl need to to take things as legitimate complaints that NEED addressing. Otherwise, Evo doesn’t deserve our support anymore. SRK needs to start acting like it cares about the SF scene as a whole. It wasn’t consoles that gave the tourney clout.

In closing, only fix the shit that IS broken. Arcades closing have nothing to do with the arcade set up and standard for controls. I’m not saying that every player should adhere to these standards. By all means, bring pad players in, that’s great. But don’t kill the tourney for those that appreciated the tried and true standard. There was a great set up for the Japanese controls for 3s. There should’ve been(if we wanted things equal) an American set up with 360’s or whatever Americans voted for. Only catering to the Japanese shows a lack of respect for the players HERE. In reality, I’m only asking SRK to treat Americans with the same respect.

Sorry for repeating myself so much but, it’s hard to tell when things are getting through.

Apoc.


#158

It’s nice that you say something regarding the issue but, an explanation of what the technical difficulties were would be nice considering that a lot of ppl were duped without given a justification. Or are we too lowly to be deserving of a reason why the tourney didn’t go as promised?

You’re not evil, but it’s fucked up not to apologize or even acknowledge that something was done fucked up. Shit happens but, I recall my mistakes being shoved down my throat and I had to cop to 'em. Same with ECC4 iirc. If you make a big mistake, cop to it and give an open apology to the players who, afterall, paid to travel to a 2of3 tourney and didn’t get what they were promised. That’s just a matter of showing some respect for those that offered their patronage.

The fact that I need to tell u this when it should be obvious, at least, from past issues, is beyond me.

Seriously, any other perspective, aside from your own, just doesn’t deserve any attention. To you, this was, obviously, no big deal. To the players, it was. It’s only respectful to treat the issue with some respect,at least, with regard to the players.

Both your reply and Tom’s reply send a message I don’t think that you’re intending to send. It’d be nice to let the players know that they matter.

It wasn’t evil but, no explanation is just disrespectful.

I swear that anything that doesn’t make you all look like hot shit is tossed aside and ignored. God forbid you answer to anyone, let alone the players that make your event possible. Fucking arrogant.

I would expect a sticky apologizing for the mishap. Of course, feeling respected, the players would be understanding for the most part. Your response, however, shows a complete lack of respect. Again, that must not matter.

Apoc.