EX Dash Upper vs EX Dash Straight on Wakeup

balrog

#1

Hey guys. For a long time I’ve been using EX Dash Upper after I’ve been knocked down to get out of some situations. It’s usually fairly safe, but if my opponent does expect it he just crouches and punishes sometimes. I saw gootecks wake up with an EX dash straight and for whatever reason I have never done this. Is this as good of an option (or even better) than EX upper since they cant just crouch under the straight. I’m gonna go look at the frame data now, but I wanted to put this on here and ask for people’s opinions and how they feel about it. Also, how safe is using EX OH as a wakeup option (obviously its punishable, but is it still a good choice at times). Thanks


#2

I don’t use EX ANYTHING on wakeup against 90% of the cast who isn’t trying to cross me up on Wakeup - There’s only a few exceptions to that beit desperation or character specific but I really don’t bother using specials to escape anything other than awkward crossups I’m not comfortable with or trying to avoid. If I see an opponent knock me down and just stand infront of me while I’m waking up, EX Upper is the last thing on my mind and I don’t see why anyone would do it.

I use EX DS as both an AA vs lopsided jumpins, when I want to blow through fake blockstrings or dropped strings or when I want to push my way out of the corner from pressure (think Bison SK blockstrings and the likes) otherwise I will block, backdash or focus backdash - If I did have to resort to an EX move just to try be safe then yes, I’d probably use DS Straight over Upper when the opponent is grounded.

In terms of EX Upper I use that to absorb jumpins low to the ground so I can RU Loop (If done right you will hit them in landing recovery after the absorb), use it to AA backjumpers or even neutral jumpers (Distance dependant) (especially jump-fireball happy Akuma’s as an EX RU in the air at a certain distance can allow you to Ultra) and general low-crossup escapes (If it’s high enough you can rely on a regular Light RU and not waste meter.

In short I use EX DS for pushback or just general defense/offense vs grounded opponents when I’m mostly just looking to make space at less risk. Any RU can be ducked by anyone which can lead to a 50/50 if the opponent has any remotely decent reaction time so it’s not always worth it if the opponent is grounded/on your wake up despite having combo ability and seemingly faster recovery.

Just my mediocre mid-level 2cents.


#3

I personally used EX HEADBUTT, works most of the time on some ultras and supers


#4

Thanks for the input, I realize its not the best option to always ex moves on wakeup, I use it right now though because I’m not comfortable blocking some crossups and pressure situations so to get out of pressure and I didn’t know if either one of these would serve better than the other. I feel like the EX headbutt is a joke making fun of me ;(


#5

EX Headbutt itself has uses against SOME moves or escapes but as a wakeup option overall it’s one of if not the worst as even Light or EX Headbutt are extremely punishable and Headbutt is ridiculously easy to safejump.

The only people who are going to try and ULTRA you on your wakeup are Scrubs or people who feel the risk/reward is worth it but yes, in that scenario an EX Headbutt will stuff or avoid the Ultra of 95% of the cast (Bare in mind I don’t know about SUPER, I’m still playing Vanilla but I presume it’s the same). Some Ultras are avoided even if you Headbutted before the Ultra Flash but in most cases it won’t work, but after the Ultra flash, yes, EX Headbutt is fine.

TL;DR - The OP is wondering about EX DS vs EX RU as a wakeup/defensive option - The liklihood of an Ultra on your wakeup is next to none so that point is irrelevant and EX Headbutt is one very very risky and low risk/reward option considering a EX HB Ultra (If successful) scales poorly and the damage/stun from a combo you could eat as a result of a whiffed or blocked headbutt is pretty intense in comparison.


#6

Ex Dash straight on wakeup is useful if your opponent is crouching and going for a meaty non-armorbreaking move or if they’re using a quick recovering meaty normal (ex: gen’s close mp. EX ru wont punish, but DS will). Obviously being predictable on your wakeup will get you blown up, but they both have their uses. The only time I would go for ex overhead on wake up is if I had trained my opponent not to ever expect it and was going for shenanigans.

EX HB on wakeup is a pretty bad idea. Unless you’re playing like Geif or Abel and you want them to respect your wakeup.

oh yea. But if people are safejumping you on wakeup just block.


#7

EX Dash Straight is way better as a wake up option than EX Upper. The fact that it doesn’t even hit crouching opponents is enough in it’s self to not use it. It does escape some safe jumps but I personally just block. Although my main use of the EX Dash Straight is to punish unsafe block strings.


#8

I know it is very risky, I was just saying that it works for me you see a high % of players online use either RYU or KEN, I would say that in 40 online fights 20 of them will used them, another 10 will used akuma. now there are times when I fight great ryu or ken players and the headbutt won’t work, in which case I won’t used it for the rest of the match only after cr.lp.lk.hb,ultra


#9

Oh I won’t disagree with you there, BUT I still feel it’s never good to recommend things like EX Headbutt wakeups in general because yes, it’ll probably work against scrubs and the typical truck load of everyday Shoto’s we’ll always face but when it comes down to it, we’re trying to lend advice and steer people towards a better game in general so it’s never good to advertise things that (yes, can work against scrubs and newcomers but) is generally a very very bad habit.

I fought a Balrog mirror last night against an up and coming player who apparantly picked up Rog after seeing my movies about me using a Keyboard so he was keen to fight me and was trying to learn the ropes - Straight away his bad habits where apparant to me - In the Balrog Mirror it’s easy to abuse Balrogs wakeup (It’s all about who gets a UTK first) and on 75% of my jumpins on his wakeup he’d attempt to Headbutt out of desperation or assuming it’d AA me and give him an Ultra punish (Light, Strong, Fierce, EX, Doesn’t matter which, it will not work if you’ve jumped correctly / not too late) and it led to him eating a Throw or BnB punish at the very very least or a big stun/dizzy/ultra setup at worst.

Ironically a good answer to Rog’s who are jumping in 100% on your Wakeup is infact EX DS, which he only used once, as per our discussion about which EX Special to use as a defense mechanism on wakeup.

Point being, if he came to this thread looking to improve, the LAST thing I’d say (no matter how much it’ll work against your everyday player) is that Headbutting on wakeup is an option - It’s the worst special you could possibly use on Wakeup - Heck even TAP on wakeup has far greater versatility and useable scenarios, and thats one of the most easy to notice/punish of the PunchSpecials in Rog’s arsenal outside of Overhead.


#10

I guess you’re right, my best advice would be, ask him what his worst match up is or the character he has the most trouble with, also when it comes to the best WAKEUP, it has to do with what character he is up against, and the tendencies the other player does, after 1 round or even during the first round someone’s moves will become apparent, then you can come up with the best wakeup.