EX Lariat and squasher are nearly useless against a knowledgable opponent

hugo

#1

After seeing them fail in matches, I went into training mode to do some tests.

EX lariat is ABSURDLY easy to beat with a throw. I did it 15 times in a row.

Even when standing IN THE SAME SQUARE as hugo on it’s startup, I was still able to react and throw it before it hit me.

Meat sqasher fairs a bit better, in that it’s harder to throw(though still not that hard)

HOWEVER, it trades that for another weakness: you can beat it by mashing jab.

Literally, just mashing standing jab, you will beat it 100% guaranteed. I tried it 10 times in a row, Hugo could not grab me as long as I just stood there hitting jab. the armor wears off before the throw actually begins, so any fast attack will beat it cold.

Granted, the best ways to use these moves are as a surprise, but as I said, it’s not hard to react to at all. Hugo’s massive body gives way to equally massive, easily read animations.

With practice, I could likely get the throw timing on Squasher much more consistently, making throw a universal counter to both attacks, meaning you don’t even need to guess weather to use a throw or jab mash.

Jesus fucking christ.


#2

clearly a topic worthy of its own thread

i mean its not like we have a hugo general discussion

or like 50 threads with people bitching


#3

I’d say the fact that two big chunks of Hugo’s game can be rendered totally inert by a simple universal tactic deserves it;s own thread.

This isn’t some weird, specific matchup thing. Any and all characters in the game can easily stuff two of Hugo’s best moves for free.

This is less of a bitching thread and more of a “pointing out very poor design” thread.


#4

It’s a forum Korbodon, people make threads. deal with it. Since 1994.
It’s not like 90% of the threads in a forum are worth something.
And for posts it’s even worse, look at yours.


#5

EX Lariat - you can use it as an AA, which juggles and lets you get a free BB or U2, or even lp reset -> lp clap pressure

EX Meatsquasher - Unless the opponent doesn’t know what to do, use this sparingly. it’s good to use as a mixup off of a blocked lp or lk, especially if you think they’re counter-poking. If the opponent gets hit, excellent you’re now in total control, you got 200 dmg + more if you re-stand AND you got corner pressure ( which makes the opponent a much smaller potato ). If they jumped out of your mixup, well next time you can try with a EX Lariat to switch it up, or if they had initially straight up stuffed or threw you, then it’s prob best to just not do the move again.

  • Like your thread title says though, yes, against a knowledgeable opponent both of these specials can be beat if they’re ready for it. These moves need to be used at the appropriate times, which isn’t too often unfortunately, but the reward on both of them is huge, so they need to have weaknesses.

*EDIT: adding more words


#6

So you hit training mode and found a counter for 2 of his moves and now all of a sudden he’s worse than you already thought he was?

Welcome to Street Fighter. Everything has a counter. And it’s easy to react to something when you know it’s coming.

Yo Attica, real talk, I mean this with all sincerity…

Play someone else.

I don’t think Hugo is the character you want him to be. Maybe you should take that tech you found and give it to some other match up threads so they better understand the Hugo matchup. Maybe you’ll find a character that suits you along the way.

But making separate threads about how bad Hugo is when:

A: The game has been out for less than a month
B: No one really has solid strategies against the rest of the cast with Hugo
C: People are trying to tidy up the forums

isn’t going to get you anywhere. Either you step your game up and stop complaining, step your game up and switch to another character, or pick a character that compliments your skill level.

Maybe that’s true. But we don’t have to be a part of that 90%.

In the meantime, what I’ll do is try not to engage in these Hugo is bad discussions anymore.


#7

If you are using those moves from full screen like a retard, you deserve to get punished.


#8

This has nothing to do with my opinion on Hugo as a whole. I just found it amazing that Capcom would make these moves so amazingly easy to beat.

I mean, Balrog’s rush punches can technically be grabbed too, but their speed and timing of the hit makes it much harder to do. what got me isn’t that they’re grabbable, it’s that it’s so astoundingly easy to do it. Again, I could throw Hugo out of it ON REACTION from literally the same square in training mode. that’s ridiculous.

And, while I appreciate you sneakily trying to imply I’m just not skilled enough to play Hugo well, I’m doing fine with him overall. got to about 2500 PP and I can win somewhat consistently. My complaints are being put out there specifically more out of frustration than anything else, at having to work twice as hard to win as a good chunk of the cast.

I also state all the time that I really enjoy playing Hugo, and take the bad with the good. The complaining is just a way to vent after particularly annoying things about him come to light.

If you actually managed to read my post, you might see the part were I said that I can throw EX lariat on reaction from THE SAME SQUARE in training mode. literally right in Hugo’s face, minimum range.

See yellow, hit throw. done. distance is irrelevant.

And Squasher, a heavily armored move, should not be able to be defeated by literally just mindlessly mashing jab. imagine if you could poke Rog out of his armored rush punches 100% with nothing but standing jab.

I don’t think this works with Gief’s EX running grab either.


#9

These moves are meant to be used when your opponent has lost their composure. If you use them when your opponent is ready for them it means you have lost your composure and you would have gotten countered anyway.


#10

Which is all well and good, but Rog and gief have the exact same type of moves, except they’re not so horrifically easy to counter.

As I said, I realize the most opportune time to use these moves is as a surprise tactic. But that doesn’t change the fact that being able to throw an EX lariat from point blank on reaction is just silly.

And it’s going to be hard to make a decent player lose their composure so bad that they can’t even remember to press throw.

the jab thing is especially damning, because mashing jab is EXACTLY the sort of thing people do when they’re nervous.

EX lariat is still useful as an AA option because you can juggle combo off it, and it’s at least not susceptible to the jab thing. But the fact you can literally jab your way out of a move with hyper armor is just absurd. that’s the exact sort of thing the armor is there to prevent.

You can still avoid it with either a throw, or just jumping, so I’m not sure why Capcom made it so that the armor wears off before the grab actually starts.


#11

So you’re more or less just expressing your unhappiness with these moves?


#12

Ex meat squashed is not as good as hoped for, but ex lariat is fine. I use it to visually punish jump ins on reaction, slow pokes or fireballs. Meat squasher I only use as a mixup to get them in the corner. Sure, they can be grabbed but there is often confusion initially on which u are going for, so opponents aren’t going to be able to just read and react as perfectly as u have in training mode.


#13

Basically. I just don’t know why Capcom made certain decisions.

The entire reason I found out about it was because decent players were able to consistently do it in real matches.

Since finding out about it, I’ve used it on several other Hugos, and it’s worked pretty damn well.

And they don’t need to read which one you’re using, both moves can be grabbed. squasher is just a little harder.

I’m watching

KSP Jibbo stream Hugo play atm, and I keep seeing it over and over again. people are able to consistently throw and jab them out.


#14

That sucks then. Oh well. Glad i m just a better player then.


#15

What’s your tag?

Since you’re even better than Jibbo I’m sure I must have heard of you.


#16

Sweet Baby Jesus!

I think I know what you mean, the moves may be gimmicky, and may not be a factor at high level play. If opponent’s can ALWAYS react to them.

Does meat squasher function as a back dash counter?

Can meat squasher and Lariat, or their EX versions, be used as mix-ups? Between Block or Jump?

OR ARE THEY STRICTLY FOR PUNISHMENT ONLY?

And what’s Hugo’s invincibility move, for when some one wants to chip out or Ultra chip out, his HUGE German ass? The colonel has 8 frames of pre-jump, so could be hard to jump clear many Ultra’s after the pause.


#17

Attica everything is easy to counter in training mode when you know it coming. WTF like seriously. All the new people that are starting to play as Hugo is always posting he sucks when they never gave him a solid try or practice. They just jump straight online then complain afterwards. But of course everything changes when you play a human, it all about smart play just don’t randomly throw out meat squashers and lariat. I have yet to get thrown out of any lariat I’ve done probably because I do lariat only after I input my clap combo in to c.light punch… so yeah something your doing wrong. should upload matches so we can all see instead of bitchen


#18

I think you missed the part where I say THE REASON I FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS was that people were consistently doing it to me online.

and once I knew about it, I, in turn, had no problem applying it against other Hugos.

So clearly it’s plenty viable.


#19

I watch ks jibbo video on youtube. only time I seen him get throwing out of lariat is on block or I see him get hit out of random claps as he try to use this to deflect fireballs instead of using HP or using DDMK I also see him do the wrong version of clap for a meaty clap on wake up when he face wolfkrone which is another reason he got hit out of it.

just to note everyone still getting use to hugo tho.


#20

That last part is what worries me.

If people can do this NOW, after Hugo’s only been out a couple weeks, what’s it going to be like in a few months when everyone is much more accustomed to his setups, movement speed, etc?

I know it can be worked around using the element of surprise, but it just irks me capcom gave these moves an ADDITIONAL weakness.

it’s not like they were unstopable to begin with. EX lariat is unsafe on block, and you can just jump to avoid squasher same way as gief’s running grab.

IMO it’s absurd that a strike move loses to a grab, and that a heavily armored grab loses to jabs.

And the throw thing is really painful because of some of Hugo’s hardest matches(Rose, Dhalsim, vega, etc) tend to be throw happy.