Execution Barriers


#1

Just as the topic title presents, I’ve always thought there were some fighting games that have this incredibly high level of execution requirement. To some, there are some different games. Some are easier, while others are not. So, taking to the SRK forums, I’m posing the question: What are your top 5 highest execution fighting games? For me, from easiest to most challenging, mine would be:

  1. Super Street Fighter II Turbo
  2. Street Fighter II: 3rd Strike
  3. Vampire Savior
  4. King of Fighters XIII
  5. Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus

Of course, everyone has differences in opinion, but I’m interested in what you guys think.


#2

The character you play matters more than the actual game in most cases…


#3

That makes sense, but I just believe the overall gameplay and execution required is different for most games. In the case of Guilty Gear versus Marvel 3 for instance, I can honestly say it’s easier to learn Dante and Wesker BnBs as opposed to just learning to effectively apply Johnny’s Mist Finer cancels in his neutral. I love your Guilty Bits series, by the way. :smiley:


#4

I don’t think 3s has much stuff that is difficult execution-wise unless you are playing Yun or Urien.


#5

I guess getting used to AE and UMvC3 having input shortcuts made 3S seem much more challenging execution-wise.


#6

I’d posit that high level SSFIV is more demanding in terms of execution due to arbitrary execution barriers (arbitrary 1f links) and input shortcuts making a mess of things.


#7

Ah. The plot thickens. I like that response. It makes a lot of sense. Though, I still have a much harder time doing certain things in 3rd Strike. With AE, it seems there are things that people tend to complain about making it “noob-friendly” such as the aforementioned input shortcuts.


#8

There’s much more to it than that. MVC3 punishes you heavily for not being able to do the optimized combos because the difference is between a dead character and an alive one who can then score a hit, activate XF3 and maybe kill your whole team. While in most games, including GG, it’s not a big deal if you settle for easier, weaker combos.


#9

That’s actually a legitimate insight. I’m just pointing out that the learning curve for a game like MvC3 just seems a lot less steeper than something like GG. Granted, you are 100 percent right about the flow of those games, the learning curve for GG seems so much more steep with a higher level of execution required. Just makes me wonder why people talk so much shit about Marvel 3 if that is the case.


#10

I think Guilty Gear is a lot more pick up and play than people think. Maybe not as much as Marvel, but the initial execution at the start isn’t as bad as everyone says, especially if you play fighting games regularly. Where GG gets tough is once you start learning higher level combos, but as Tataki said earlier, it depends on who you play. My execution isn’t all that great, and I can’t do a lot of the high level combos, but I can still whittle off 1/3-1/2 of your life easy with the ones I CAN do. Whereas in Marvel if you can’t do the high execution stuff, you’re probably going to get blown up.


#11

I only see it as more difficult because of things like RCs and FRCs. I watched that Guilty Bits episode on Zappa, and just learning about how to use a character like that where most of the match is situational is a crazy concept to me. Marvel really is a lot less forgiving in that when you drop a combo, you will likely get blown up for it. However, I have a much easier time constructing optimized combos in Marvel than in GG.Though, I’m sure that when I dedicate more time to learning GG, it’ll be easier than I thought.


#12

Overall?

  1. ST
  2. KoF as a series.
  3. Vampire
  4. GGAC
  5. Jojo’s.

3S has a handful of things that are hard, but generally, nothing hard at all… Things that come to mind: Kara palms, Urien unblockable setups, Remy’s machine guns, Kuroda Cyclone, and Jiro Demon - and the Kuroda Cyclone might not even belong in this list, honestly. the charge partition stuff is much harder than it, but the KP combos and the Jiro Demon, I think are by far the hardest things to do in 3S.

EDIT: If you don’t know what Jiro Demon is, it’s a TKD + SGGK in one move… Gets you an option select that gives:

  1. TKD
  2. Throw tech
  3. Parry > Demon.

Shit’s fucking nuts.


#13

I’d probably switch out 3S for MvC2. In terms of execution, MvC2 is king.

Even though ST is known being simple, execution can be pretty brutal at times. You cannot afford to make mistakes in ST, since the damage is so high.

One little execution error and you could get ToD’d. Or let’s say you’re playing a shoto mirror and you have a sliver of health left. You get knocked down. You’re opponent’s first reaction is to chip you to death with a fireball, as you’re getting up. At this point, there is only one option for survival ― a 1-frame reversal jab DP right through the fireball.


#14

I agree with your ST stuff, especially since to actually make shit work, you have to do all those fancy renda cancels and shit. Ken’s got the easiest one that I know of though… c.lk, c.lk, qcf, qcf+lp+lk = his… But other characters are just fucking silly…

MvC2 isn’t that hard in terms of execution though. Top 10, maybe… But the hardest things to do in MvC2 are unfly / refly combos and be fast with Magneto… and by fast, I mean be Yipes fast… Then there are the impractical infinites that you can only do with program pads, like Cammy’s infinite is just fucking stupid hard, as is Hood’s… But generally, I don’t think MvC2 is as hard as people make it out to be - but then again, I don’t think anyone thinks their main game or formerly main game is THAT hard in terms of execution. It’s really a player-to-player experience.


#15

MvC2 is overrated in terms of execution

refly is hard but not really practical.

unfly is easy


#16

Whats so had about KOF? I feel that KOF execution is pretty easy for the most part outside of a few characters.


#17

Word… and unfly is actually one of the harder things to do… So yeah, not very hard.
The only reason I think unfly is hard is because you have to do fast fly and THEN unfly… e.g. Sent’s sj.lk, ffly, lk + assist, unfly, hp nonsense combos…
But nah, MvC2 isn’t that hard. I personally find ALL custom combos except Alpha 2 much more difficult. Genai Jin? No fucking thank you. KoF13 HD? Peace the fuck out. Alpha 3 shit? Fuck you. A-Groove as a staff, record label, and as a motherfucking crew? Fuck you too.


#18

*1 frame reversal not guaranteed.
fixed


#19

It’s funny that you mention that. Boxer’s c. jab x3 xx s. jab > Super in ST and Gen’ei Jin are easy as shit for me but on the other hand, I can’t ROM in MvC2 to save my life. lol


#20

qcf+attack xx hcf, b+attack, xx every fucking direction + attack = BnB combo.
I think going from links to MvC style special xx super xx super max is really confusing.