Execution help

makoto
#1

So I feel I have a decent technical knowledge of combos, links, etc. However, my ability to perform them is well, abysmal.

I didn’t post this in a general thread because I only play makoto so that’s really all I need help with. Anything that will help is appreciated. I know it sounds kind of dumb, but I’m just really awkward with a joystick instead of a d-pad.

Explicitly I cannot pull off links/hit confirms, supers, or the 100% stun combo. (Yes, I do know the inputs perfectly)

Also, sometimes my tsurugis/karakusas do not come out and I get a normal instead.

thanks in advance.

#2

probably not the kind of thing that you want to hear, but…

just keep playing

#3

yeah I guess asking for shortcuts is kind of dumb. I try to practice, but it’s hard not to despair when every time I try to link super I get ex fukiage.

#4

quoted for emphasis… practice practice practice, although sometimes i have a little trouble with ex tsurugi

#5

Go to training mode, turn on key display, in that way you can see what exactly you’re doing wrong and then you can work on fixing it.
If you’re getting normal moves instead of special moves you’re probably missing some inputs (again, turning on key display will help you with that).

You’re probably missing the first joystick inputs for the super.

#6

there is no key display in training mode. (maybe the dc version?)

anyhow maybe I’ll try doing hcf then qcf super to get it to come out or something.

#7

Er… which S.A. are you trying to do the Ex Fukiage instead ?? O__o.

If you’re trying to do the Hayate -> Seichusen combo, you better do it whit the drum tech at the end of Hayate. ^^U…

#8

is it a link or a cancel, i THINK it’s a link, which means you do the sa1 AFTER the jab hayate and not during it’s recovery.^^

#9

It’s a Link combo, cause you don’t Cancel the Hayate into Seichusen like you cancel Hadoken into S.A. . You must wait till Hayate ends and then do the Seichusen in the ‘recovery’ of the hit. :wink:

Edit: Remember, you only have 1 frame to connect the Seichusen after a landed hayate.

#10

1 frame? That’s it? The timing doesn’t seem that strict at all to me and I hardly ever use Seichusen. Speaking of timing, how many frames do you have to dash cancel Abare- Tosanami?

#11

can seem easy, but connect the Seichusen after a landed Hayate is hard, cause is a 1 frame combo (do it late and your foe blocks the Seichusen)

I don’t understand well your question… sorry. U_U

#12

it’s a cancel… there shouldn’t be any frames.

and i was practicing the hayate > SA1 it’s ALOT easier if you do the drumming method =D

#13

(any)Hayate > SA1 is a 1 frame link on a standing opponent. It doesn’t FEEL strict because of te lenient inputs for specials and supers. It looks like once the whole input for a super or special is completed, the game holds them as valid for at least one more frame. This would be easy to prove with a programmable stick or even if 3S training mode had input display. Until then, I guess you can put this under ‘speculation’. Add double taps and pianoing to this and it almost sounds like you should never miss it lol.

As for the dash cancel, if you’re asking how long the cancel window is then I’m afraid you proably won’t get an answer. It would take a lot of work to figure that out without a programmable stick. Also, I don’t think this is important to know unless you’re making a combo video or something.

EDITED:
the example I gave actually disproves my point

#14

yup, it’s a link. 1 frame sounds about right, sometimes the timing of the link can be pretty difficult. it’s flexible though, because you can link it off of any hayate.

any hayate xx sa1 is a 1 frame link? seems like the fierce hayate has a much easier link window. :frowning:

#15

all strength hayates have the same frame advantage properties. Even charged hayates (that don’t knock down) have the same advantage on stand and crouch hit, even though the frame advantage on block is different.

When you link off of a HP hayate it might seem easier because of the time in between QCF+HP and QCF2+P. When you link it off LP hayate there is little to no pause, it almost feels like QCF3 if you do your QCF’s slow like me.

random PS:
IMO Makoto players should use stage 2 Hayates more. It leaves you at -2 and will probably give you a bunch of free parries until your opponent figures it out. Who knows, they might even do C.MK xx super thinking you’re vulnerable. It only takes 27 frames to charge it up to stage 2. Use her scarf as a visual cue. When it’s at the bottom for the second time you can let go. Could be useful against players that don’t attack much.

#16

hopefully with makoto is to win in 27 frames no time for stage 2 >.>, either way i thought any charged hayate was parry bait am i wrong? and if that leave you at a -2 frame advantage why not do short hayate karakusa win. or something of the like. idk my point is it’s difficult to find oppourtunity for something like a charged hayate imo

#17

Well -2 on block and +7 for a short Karakusa leaves a lot of time to do something to interrupt. The natural reaction to blocking a Hayate is to punish so chances are they will press a button, at least the first few times anyway. That was part of my point however, once they start doing nothing after, LK Karakusa is the obvious attack.

27 frames sounds like a lot, but it really isn’t. You shouldn’t think too much about it in numbers (after all it isn’t combo theory), but more in actual match situations where, for example, you have discouraged ground advancement and have instilled the fear of the dash in them. Also, this is a counter-balance to the Hayate cancels some people love to do so much. If you ALLWAYS cancel a Hayate the surprise effect wears off. This also plays into what you said about it being parryable. Now, even though 11/60th of a second may be enough time to react to a HP Hayate and parry it, it is not practical. The only way someone can do this is by ONLY looking for that one thing. As a result they fall prey to a canceled Hayate into dash. If you allways release at the same tempo then parrying will become a rhythm thing and not a reaction thing. Avoiding that is another story altogether.

As for an opportunity. Take any matchup where your opponent is preemptively sticking out a move hoping to punish your dash. You can
A) wait a split second THEN dash
B) Hayate (possibly EX) into the fray hope to beat their move during rcovery or startup of their next move.
C) Jump for no reason
D) Not do anything and let them come to you
E) Use another normal to try and beat theirs
or…
F) Hold a Hayate for half a second and either beat one of their attacks or be in for a guessing game with higher payoff than where you were at before

From my experience, in a neutral situations Makoto is usually being defended against rather than being attacked.

#18

IMHO: The best use for the Hayate’ stages are when you’re trying “Meaty” at your rivals on Low to Mid range (Mp Hayate//Lp Hayate to avoid throws) and when they’re trying do a EX move… otherwise, the Hayate Stages (for me) are useless.

BTW, 27 frames = 1 sec : In one sec, Chun is in your face kicking it w her S.A. 2 at least that you wanted to trick her and you do the cancel to parry her S.A. … ^^U, but this last is very difficult and too risky (IMO)

#19

math was never my strong point… but at 60 fps 27 frames equals 27/60th of a second… exactly 0.45 seconds.

I use stage 1 hayate in combos all the time. After karakusa > s.hp. I hold and charge for a split second getting 2 more damage points. It’s free and not hard. Anyway, I’ve already said what I wanted to say about the practicality :wonder:

#20

The push back from a stage two hayate is too great for a karakusa after it.:confused:

As for its use- I do on occasion use it but I would not use it against someone unless Im sure they will block it as it can be parried on reaction and if it is your gonna get hit as hard as they can hit you.

(I will leave out all the other possibilities of what you can do and the opponent can do which are situation/character specific)

Zen you left out the fact charged hayates do more stun then their non charged counterparts which is not a whole lot but on occasion comes in handy (ie poor man’s 100% stun)

BTW 27 frames is a little under 1/2 a second iirc 3s runs a 62fps