Execution tips ? Footsies OS GH

zangief

#1

It seems vital to my Gief to learn to push the footsies into something to deal a bit of damage and stop people from constantly chalenging my close low area where st.strong whiff.
But how the hell do you OS GH off lk or lp ?
I tryed :
:f: :d: :df: :lk: ~ :mp::hp:
:f: :lk: :df: :uf: :mp::hp:
:df: :db: :lp: :df: :mp::hp:

70% result in whiffed poke + GH instead of the poke alone as it should be. Even better sometime I get like a kara GH with the startup of the lk…

Any tips or is it just that hard to handle ?


#2

That’s exactly what your getting.

lk then 2P, too close together, gets the kara cancel. You must have spaced it one frame apart.

You should go into training mode and learn to delay slightly.

F,D,DF + LK (delay for a few frames, about 3 or so), then hold 2P.

  • If you don’t make contact with their poke, nothing happens.
  • If you do make contact, there is a hit stun delay, and the slight 3 frame pause, allows for the EXGH cancel.

Or alternatively do the command in proper sequence, but extremely fast.

LK then F, D, DF + 2P

Basically you have less than 13 frames (probably less time) to complete the EXGH command, before the entire LK plays out.

-If your too slow with the EXGH input, then EXGH will always come out, cause you activated when Zangief was idle as opposed to being in LK recovery frames.

For the lp xx EGH, I go F+LP, D, DF + 2P (Hold)


#3

Yeah that’s what I was afraid of…
No secret, it’s execution heavy for my execution level. I have a hard time doing clean forward for DP motions. I get the hold thing to avoid double inputs with negative edge.
Thanks for the clarification mate :slight_smile:

how about fixing this kara cancel for 2013 update ?? :slight_smile: would be sooo cool.
Or find out why his super can cancel a hand on hit, this is very weird it works very well on idle opponent but is “for me at this point” quite impossible to do on a focusing opponent, like if the timing is strict.


#4

Super can cancel as part of the rules of the SFIV engine/system. Every or most specials can be super canceled in the initial frames. And each character has one non-rapid fire (not LK or LP) normal that can be super canceled also. Zangief’s is cr.hp. These rules are there, but for Zangief, they don’t make much sense - mostly because of the non-comboable grab super.


#5

Okay, well Capcom give Gief some super cancel stuff maybe ? thank you. ^.^


#6

Man, if he could super cancel st.RH…


#7

Wouldn’t really work, as you can’t grab them in hit stun.

Your thinking about Kara st. RH into Super.

The Super Cancel rule is dumb, since what if your character has an air super?

Edit: And even if your attack is negative on block, you won’t be able to cancel from recovery frames. Hence, your super will whiff during block stun.


#8

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of cancelling it on whiff. One of Gief’s more gimmicky setups is whiffing st.RH from far away or over an opponents head and then going into SPD. It’s a mediocre setup but sorta works sometimes because st.RH recovers faster than it looks visually and SPD catches them trying to punish.

But it’s still pretty slow and someone with decent reactions should have no problem with it. If you could super cancel st.RH though, it’d turn it into a nice 50/50 (U2 or super is probably not a choice the opponent wants to make) and actually give Gief a bit more freedom to throw it out to try and tag jumps and counter-hit long pokes. The poor range on super would, IMO, keep it from being broken and Capcom wouldn’t even have to change any frame data.


#9

It could be gimmicky or, it could be legit.

Far st.hk is good in that it steps over low pokes, like Akuma, ryu or ken’s cr.mk.

But being a HK normal, it would have huge total move frames. Thus, would only be used on prediction of cr.mk. ie you have to start it up well before they throw out the cr.mk

And then BAM, into Ultra FAB

If the Super did have LP SPD range, it would make certain scenarios so risky for the opponent, I’m looking at you, Fei Long, and your rekkas.

But it can’t exactly be used like LP SPD for the extended range, as limited by the more complexed command input

At present, compared to the Ultra, it is garbage. And has limited use AND MUCH MORE LIMITED SITUATIONAL use. Probably as a round or match closer if somehow, Zangief manages to get by his hard match-ups without the use of EXGH. Highly unlikely. EXGH is too good a tool, as it controls space and has invincibility frames.

They really should tweak the Super so, it becomes a workable option. Maybe, LP SPD range, with Startup Frames: 3+0


#10

isn’t it as useful as Akuma’s super ? point blank flash, you’re screwed.


#11

Let me explain. The Super FAB is a great STANDALONE move.

However, its true value is relative to Zangief’s tool set and match-up.

When you have Ultra 1 stocked, the super becomes obsolete. As the Ultra uses no meter, has superior range, uses no meter, has superior post positioning (via longer opponent downtime), uses no meter, does more damage (when Ultra is 60%+ full), and last but not least, USES NO METER.

As Zangief, when you have an arsenal of tools that practically “do the same thing”, the super is by far at the bottom of your list. With Ultra 1, LP SPD, EX SPD, HP SPD, and to an extent AS, more attractive options.

That is the value of the super relative to tool set.

Now, when you compare the value of the super, relative to match-up, in many match-ups, it’s value is near ZERO. Imagine closing distance, maintaining a life lead, and actually winning against Sagat or Guile while having a full SUPER bar and not expending any meter of EXGH.

Despite not knocking down, EXGH is still the best use of meter. With FADC back dash and EX SPD way behind. But ahead of the super in terms of efficient meter management.


#12

That’s pretty much my point when I say it’s like Akuma’s super.


#13

Akuma’s super is a lot more useful. He doesn’t have to blow meter much at all to control any matchup, so it’s very reasonable for him to have it stocked. The thing is, he has so much stuff to make you block and can cancel from st.RH, overhead, cr.MK etc; this makes it pretty much free damage that Akuma gets when he wants, as a tick throw or punish.

But with Gief, you’re always expecting a command grab, so there’s no reason to play any differently when he has super. And as Evans said, in most matchups Gief needs his meter dearly, so you’ll probably never have it stocked. However, it does have one very critical use. On the odd chance you get a hard KD and have super/U2 stocked, you get probably the most dangerous 50/50 in the game. Stay on the ground/press anything, eat 450. Jump/Backdash/SRK, eat 450. Very fucked up situation for the opponent…unless it’s Ryu, Ken, Akuma or Seth as they can just EX SRK to victory…


#14

That’s pretty much how noobs can define Akuma super and game style. But far from true. But I wont argue this in Gief forum.
So yeah this kind of super is used with a mind game where you have to train the opponent to block a certain pattern then go for the tick super.
One of the worse super a char can have in SSFIV. But mind game masters could say they love that kind of 0 frame tools.


#15

We can play a few matches, if you like.


#16

OK, I’ll sum it up for you dude.

Zangief’s Super FAB is superior to Akuma’s Super Demon. Agreed?

However, Akuma’s Super Demon is way more practical and valuable than Zangief’s Super FAB.
When fighting against Akuma, it’s in your best interest to block a lot. But when fighting against a grappler … well … you can answer that one!

It’s pretty bad, when your Super brings nothing to the table. And you have an Ultra that practically does the same thing but is much better.
That’s why I’ve always believe that it was an error on Capcom’s part. As I strongly think the Super should be more superior to the Ultra.

So I’m advocating LP SPD range with LP SPD startup or worst. Example: 3+0 - No invincibility.


#17

We’re not here to have a go at you Shabrout. So hope you don’t take it the wrong way.
This is my general consensus after watching numerous matches between top level players, and through my limited self experience.

Now, back to your original topic.

Some more advice about st.lk xx EXGH o/s

Make sure you let the st.lk active frames play out completely. ie. you see Zangief whiff st.lk then press and hold 2P.
This delay will allow you to avoid the kara EXGH.

And when you make contact, the pause will be longer due to hit stun. So it will become even easier.

Now on to a new motion that many Zangief’s should start to incorporate into their game. Depending on match-up, but this will be the default way I perform o/s EXGH from now on.
Based predominantly off technology from Vangief. Yes, I was experimenting in the lab for new ways to do things. And hence took me back to your original post.

I shall term it:

Multi-buffer EXGH/SPD o/s or simply Zangief’s “Multi-buffer”

Quickly Mash: F, D, B, F, D, B, F, D, F … continuously. This gives Zangief that jerky (parkinson’s) motion that you often see in Vangief’s videos.

  1. EXGH ender: Press 2P in response to a projectile. (recommended MP+HP, as you need LP for LP SPD)
  2. Option Select ender: o/s cr.lk/st.lk xx EXGH: Press lk, delay and hold 2P in response to counter poke. You will get st.lk 2/3 of the time, and cr.lk 1/3 of the time.
  3. SPD Ender: Press UB+LP when the opponent is within reach (or in prediction of their poke - a risky play)

For the SPD Ender: UB+LP is the preferred option, in case you mis-mashed the command, you don’t get LPGH, or you don’t jump forward with Jumping LP. You jump back with jumping LP which will save your Russian bacon.

If you want Zangief to stay in place: F, D, B, F, D, B, F, D, B

If you want Zangief to slightly move forward: F, D, DB, F, D, DB, F, D, DB

Can be inputted in reverse direction if your more comfortable: B, D, F, B, D, F or DB, D, F, DB, D, F

It should work even easier on pad. But I use it on stick and keyboard. Just be very very very careful when mashing, not to hit U, UF or UB by accident.

It works as the SFIV engine allows for a longer time to read inputs. And the extra B in F, D, B, F … every time you mash, is ignored for the EXGH command. But the extra B, is important for the LP SPD command. Similarly a command like F, D, B, F, D, B + 2P … when done quickly would be leniently read as the EXGH command also. Ignoring the extra D and B.

To ensure success of the command, especially if by chance you end with B. You should always be mashing the command even after you press lk or 2P. Unless you decide to commit to the SPD.

Use it well Friends.


#18

Whoohoo that’s a great tip.
Was busy trying to code a new web app for SFIV matchups so missed your replies.
I’m still trying to get used to the :f: :df: :uf: way to OS witch is the best way imho if you want a 100% st.lk and no cr.lk crap :slight_smile:
But this 3 in 1 rolling stick pattern look sick.