Explain Grappler Characters To Me


#1

I dont like grapplers like Zangief because theyre only about the grab, which is one dimensional. Gief himself is a very boring character to me, his design being hes slow, has a ton of health so he can bulldog his way in, does a lot of damage when he is in with grabs, and hes just a big ugly dude in most games. Other grappler characters arent flashy in capcom games except El Fuerte and R Mika, and Orochi Yoshiro is so violent hes cool. Blue Mary and Clark in KOF I like though cause they have a finesse about their moves, they like to show off.

I like zonign characters more cause theres more of a mind game with them I like where its all about when and which fireball you fire at the opponent. Plus its a video game and people with fire/ect coming out of their hands is cool. Grapplers most of the time are just big heavy pro wrestlers and they act like it being boring and slow. Like one guy I talked to on here said “its all about his jab” but to me Sagat is cool because he has 6 fireballs he has access to and theyre all for different places his opponent is on screen for him to fire and be safe using, along with his normals.

I do like the zoner versus grappler matchup when Im playing against a good grappler player, but when theyre not as good as me its lame.

So tell me why you like grappler characters, or which ones you do like and why. Tell me why you liek the style of bulldoging grapplers. Go in deep on why you like bulldoging or the philosophy that goes with being a grappler player in a game with fireball characters in them.


#2

Awe come on dont flag this, I want a real discussion about this. Im sorry I find Gief boring and said that the way I did.

So, I hope the mods dont close this before a Gief player explains the fundamental reasons why he/she likes playing him and or other grapplers.


#3

The irony is that you fail to realize that people playing grapplers are playing the inverse of your strategy. For all your calculated efforts at zoning they are making calculations to overcome your zoning. Grapplers aren’t one dimensional, landing the grab is the goal; the nuance comes from outplaying the guy that has all the tools to keep you out. Try playing a grappler jumping around and churning butter and see how far you get. The same way you’re trying to time your fireballs to hit me or for me to land on them, I’m timing my advances and neutral jumps to advance on you.

You literally start the round where you want to be and try and keep that position, I start the round where I don’t want to be and try and end it where I want to be.

A lot of the reason why people hate characters like Fuerte is he throws this traditional war of attrition out the window.

I don’t play SFIV anymore but if you look at players like Snake Eyes play geif, he has some of the most amazing footsies in that game.


#4

Before I add my two-cents… is this topic for real??
Cause I’m thinking about flipping a coin as to whether I should respond with a helpful something or a joke.


#5

Play Jubei Yamada in Fatal Fury Special.

Best Grappler character in any fighting game.

He does it all.

And best of all, he’s primarily a charged based character.


#6

Also often you’re not playing to land the SPD - you’re using the threat of the SPD to force mistakes out of the opponent that you can punish.


#7

Good point, I forgot about that one. This is exactly why Gief has his ridiculous stun jumping headbutt.


#8

I don´t know, what to say, but as someone, who uses Hakan and Hawk, I feel deeply offended, when someone thinks that grapplers are only about their grabs(Certain grapplers have more than 1 grab btw[Gief,Hakan, etc]) and that they are one dimensional or whatever one dimensional means for you. You don´t have to be a fan of grapplers and you can find them boring, that´s your thing in the end, just the thing is that the grapplers also can be or have to be played in different styles, if the matchup requires it. A character like Yang requires a different strategy than Sagat for example. Zangief´s ST MP and SPD outfootsies Yang easily and Yang is the one, who has now to get in on Zangief, which is hard given the strong AAs and fast SPD of Gief.

Why I like grappler?
My favourite pro wrestler has large arms, is unintentionally funny, is so bad that he is really good ,does a lot of grab moves and loves to abuse poor menNo idea why, but I like Hakan and Hawk.


#9

Better than 96 clark?
i wouldn’t say so, granted jubei is a lot of fun to use, in fact maybe one of the most interesting characters to use in any game, i’d even say that he’s not really a grappler, i mean yeah he has loads of command throws, but does he really revolve round them like gief outside of whatever CC or v ism or 96 clark main aim is to land command throws, jubei is just like 98 daimon in some ways, yeah he has them but they are an icing on cake rather than meat and drink

Even if you ranked the by the tiers they fell into into there respective games, jubei was what? mid? lower mid, alpha 2 gief was upper mid, 96 clark was jesus, and yeah daimon was up there to.


#10

That’s the thing about Jubei, from a gameplay design standpoint, he’s not like any grappler character I’ve ever seen, especially being a charge based grappler, which was like almost unheard of at the time. He’s got alot of sick mix-up’s involving his cookie throw, cross-ups, frame traps, and unblockable setups with his dash grab, and he can punish unsafe stuff really hard if he has access to his Desperation Move. But yeah, he’s like mid tier at best… but I really like him alot, he’s a really interesting character for sure. I really wish he was used in other games.

But now you have me interested in looking up 96 Clark. I only vaguely remember some really ridiculous things in 96, not a KOF game I played often against other players. I’m really interested though. I’ll have to go check up some stuff on Youtube.

Also can’t forget good ol’ 98 Daimon. He’s a classic.

Speaking of 98, Orochi Yashiro is alot of fun. Just the mind games and hitconfirms with him, it’s delicious. Sadly I never got any good with O.Yashiro (Or 98 in general), which sucks because I love seeing high level O.Yashiro gameplay.

Another character I wanna bring up is Blue Mary in Real Bout Fatal Fury 2. She’s not your traditional grappler either, but her gameplay is pretty much all based around high/low mix-up’s and unblockables. She’s a lower tier character, but once she gets P.Power, she becomes extremely scary, with even more devastating setups, and guard cancels that lead to big damage.

Speaking of Real Bout 2, I think the closest thing to a real grappler in that game is Geese. He gets massive range with his kara, and gets solid damage output off just about any untechable knockdowns thanks to his pursuit grab. And he’s still got the usual Geese bag o’ tricks with a full screen fireball, counters, and really good normals, particularly his sweep, which leads to his pursuit grab if Feint Canceled.


#11

Native Impact got second place at Summer Jam by doing that with T Hawk, and nearly won the tournament.

But its the zoner who sets the pace of the match and the grappler has to answer to how theyre being zoned out. As I said, I like the match up of zoner vs grappler if the grappler player is good, but if the grappler player isnt good its just bleh.

Again though its all about the SPD, but in that case its a zoning tool. I mentioned Gief as boring because he just is to me compared to other grapplers out there. You play Hakan and Hawk and Im sorry you were offended by what I said, but at least Hakan is a more interesting character since he has the GG A.B.A. style. Hopefully since you play him youll show how over powered he can be with all the buffs he got.

I dont like bulldogging though you guys, I dont like having to give up so much health for position compared to other ways to get a better position. @bomberman3000 can you explain why this is a better route to go than other things other characters have to gain position?


#12

When the grappler gets in on the zoner, they now get to set the pace of the match. It works both ways.

The Native Impact thing is a semi fluke. He’s a fairly solid player overall and he was using the new tools of a lesser seen character to exploit people’s unfamiliarity. He was being a bit wreckless and that was throwing people off.

We’ve explained grapplers to you. We’ve explained why we like grapplers. You’ve just decided to go back a state your preference based on the things you like. What are you trying to accomplish here? What’s the point of trying to have a dialogue if you’re going to be so myopic. If you going to retreat into this, “you’re wrong because Zangief is boring to me” there’s no point.

You’re essentially saying “Justify your character choice to be because as far as I’m concerned grapplers shouldn’t exist”


#13

eh, the only grappler I ever liked was cerebellla from skullgirls. I also think kanji from p4a was pretty dope as well, had nice pressure with those long range lightning attacks and anti air grabs. doesnt thunder in KI incorporate grabs into his combos? I heard that was a thing. anyways, I suck ass playing normal grapplers, but I can totally understand why people play them, they are a nice change of pace and are super stronk.


#14

I guess my thing is that, why have a character who is only about grabs when you can have other characters with command grabs in the game or at least a strong grab game. And Ive mentioned how I like Blue Mary and Clark in KOF, so Im not 100% against grapplers, but Im against the boring ones, I cant phrase it better than that. Its like they have to do big damage so theyre scary. I mean with zoners their fireballs dont do much damage, but when people are next to them they still have uppercuts and their normals to fight with.

So, why should grapplers have slow movement and why should they do big damage?


#15

Read this, it might tell you something about character archetypes:

The basic idea behind this is that Zangief for example, who has strong close range tools and is the traditional grappler, has a hard time to get in, but once he is in, he should be very dangerous and should have it much easier.(damage and executionwise).
You work hard to get in, but you have it easy, if you are close(360+P). You can compare this to a divekick character like Yun, who is also very strong at close range. While he can get in very easily, he has to do much more work, if he is close and wants damage, whereas Zangief can in theory simply grab you. He is also intended to be less scarier then Zangief at close range, but this is of course only theory and in USF4, the “easy to get in” characters also tend to be more scary than the “hard to get in” characters. A failed command grab is much more punishable than a regular throw, so of course a command grab should give you some nice reward, for the risks you are taking.

To have a lot of damage is nice, but if you can´t get into the situations to land this damage consistently, then your high damage won´t help you much. Fireball based character operate rather from mid to far range, they can hit you from or set the game much further away than Gief. No idea, how else I can say it.


#16

…I don’t think you really get Street Fighter.


#17

Snip

So, why should grapplers have slow movement and why should they do big damage?
[/quote]

Are you trying to be obtuse intentionally?

Have you ever been cornered by Gief with a meaty crouching light? Do you understand the panic that happens in that situation?

Grapplers are on the hunt. They stalk their prey. They induce panic and capitalize on that panic.


#18

Instead of saying that, could you say WHY you see I dont understand SF. Explain what you know that I dont. Im trying to learn.


#19

My head hurts like hell.

I think everyone in this thread is being trolled colossally.
I hope so, at least.


#20

I don’t know whether to challenge this kid to a first to 10 or put him on ignore (we can still do that here, right?)