Earlier today I played against a REALLY good alex player and he RAPED my gouks.
it seemed like after every knockdown he did, he had some sort of meaty or other attack/grab ready. i tried parrying the meaty’s, but then for some reason those EX meaties just kept gettin me? also, his grabs are killer. i happend to land a few f+mp overheads, but after that, he’d just stomp on me.
wtf is the strategy against ALEX???
Earlier today I played against a REALLY good alex player and he RAPED my gouks.
well definitely try to keep him down. im not always that good against alex (i blame it on lack of experience against them) but i would take to the air a lot because i dont think he has really great anti airs. he can be juggled better than most too.
air game…so just basically air hado’s…he can parry his way through that though…and figure out the patterns n stuff.
there has to be somethin else to beat this cat.
If he’s using meaty attacks on wake-up, why don’t you just… block them?
Just jump over whatever he tries to do next. Not like Alex’s command throws are very fast.
well, theoretically, anyone can parry their way through your offensive, you just need to have a solid mix up game. staying in the air is a safe way to stay out of meaty and throw range until you score a knockdown. plus he won’t have much of a choice but to parry.
dunno if jumpin that much is a good idea against alex. he can always meet you in the air with his jumping HK, which can stuff a lot of things (including gouki’s air tatsu if mistimed)…
This matchup is SERIOUSLY in your favour. Its a bit like the Makoto matchup. She can stun you if she gets that one karakusa, in her corner, with bar. Otherwise you can dance around her all day.
Same with Alex. Few hits and a grab or two = stun or death. But its hard for him to get in. He will almost always have to try to get in via the air, or EX rush. Be careful of his jump HK, other than that you should be able to land a few air hurricanes on him. Learn to red parry the second hit of ex elbow.
Wakeup - if it scares you that much, teleport away. If he always attacks, that should save you. If he waits, then you shouldnt have that many problems with blocking.
Don’t use ground HK hurricane on him as he can grab you out of it after blocking. Maybe once in the game you can use a mk hurricane, then grab him before he realises.
As he is a grappling character - abuse your anti - grab tools - demon flip grab and f+mp. Akuma can stun Alex with a good rushdown in almost the same way that Ibuki stuns Hugo. Believe it or not - I scored two double perfects in my entire 3s career and they both were against two different Alex players. One was on xbl, and the other on arcade.
thanks for the info guys
I’d add Necro in this list too. Gouki can outpriorize him pretty much everywhere, and for Necro is difficult to get out from Gouki’s rushdown if he’s not playing Magnetic Storm.
BUT, if he manage somehow to get you in the corner and apply his nasty mixup game, you’re in serious danger. Guessing wrong one time => Gouki stunned, and more likely dead.
so naz, are you saying akuma has the advantage over makoto?
Not sure what the official verdict is, but I think so. For the only reason that Akuma can rush Makoto regardless of where she is on the screen, yet Makoto gets her free win in special conditions.
Its just a personal opinion. I can play both Akuma and Makoto (not that my Makoto is anything special) and it just feels that Akuma can approach Makoto almost anyway he wants, plus the advantage of being able to link fierce srk after mk tatsu eliminates the need for that risky lk tatsu.
I think the official guide lists Makoto as Akuma’s worst matchup. I totally disagree - no one owns Akuma like Ibuki does.
Makoto has multiple ways to deal with all of Gouki’s mixups/runaway/rushdown tactics
And yes karakusa = death, but also top of that any abare = Gouki being stunned whether its from a misplaced air fireball, demon filp, lucky charm, air tatsu, blocked/parried shoryu etc
Lets not even go into if they know that the second hit of fwd and rh hurricanes aren’t red parries
Im not saying akuma can’t win this match but makoto has a very noticeable advantage whether using sa 1 or 2 (imo 6-4 ~6.5-3.5 makoto)
Although I am kind of intrested in why you believe Ibuki is gouki’s worst match up
from a personal standpoint ibuki is a tough matchup. Im not used to getting the rushdown back at me. akumas moves do have great priority against ibukis tho.
what are these multiple ways Makoto has to deal with Gouki’s rushdown?
I don’t play against Makoto often, but I use her sometimes and I feel it’s not that easy for her to get out of good rushdowns / mixups without doing something “risky”.
the matchup overall is pretty even imho, but Makoto hasn’t got that many ways to connect random abares against a good Gouki. if she has abare ready, you’re not going to throw out random air fireball, you’ll use them mainly on her wakeup to lock her down (not that she has any good wakeup moves beside sa1). about demon flip, it’s pretty uncommon for a random abare to fully connect when the opponent is in the air… I’ll fear more a random fukiage when attemping to connect Gouki’s air throw instead lucky charm is, well, another random factor to deal with, while a blocked/parried srk will make you eat the big combo only in special conditions (in which you should think twice in the first place, about throwing out a shoryken).
Ibuki doesn’t even need bar to stun Akuma in a matter of seconds. And most of her close pokes out prioritize akuma’s. She can hit him with TONS of moves while staying well out of Akumas max range moves (apart from maybe HK sweep and standing fierce). Whats more is that she is faster, has a much smaller hitbox than Akuma, and her moves do a lot of stun. Some of her pokes you can’t punish with akuma even if you parry (f+mk?)
As for Makoto - I’m sorry but I have never seen a Makoto get out of a good Akuma rushdown unless they did something psychic. She has no real anti airs against Akuma unless she manages to jump HK him out first - and imagine how screwed she would be if Akuma baited out a whiffed jumping HK?
And parrying hurricanes isn’t something a lot of players can do properly in tournament conditions. I’m sure everyone can do it in training mode, but I have rarely seen people take that risk in tournaments, so unless and until someone screws me over for it real bad, its something that I will take advantage of. And trying to parry out of a hurricane that you started blocking is very risky because if you get hit by just the last one or two hits, you’re actually set up for more juggle hits.
-rh abare is used for usually juggles airborne opponents fairly reliably
-As for random abares Makoto doesn’t really need them but I just pointed out the fact that if one was done and hits Gouki’s the round is pretty much over (and if Mak was duel stocked it is)
As for air fireballs she can only really punish ones used from a distance for zoning or done by a jumping away/towards Gouki.
As for ones thrown meaty on wakeup she can’t really do anything (like most of the cast most of the time) but block or parry. As for which one she should do is dependent on what she thinks the Gouki is likely to do in the post fireball mixup.
As for demon flip punishment i just pointed out the fact that she can abare it, fukiage/cr. rh kara’ed fukiage/ex fukiage are all more common ways of punishing/trading with demon flips depending on strength and range it was done at.
As for the special conditions for her to t.o.d (or their about) Gouki via a blocked shoryu it pretty much only requires she have a meter and she blocks a shoryu. Mak can walk/dash under if need be and karakusa and/or st fp him in his recovery
(*Although it is sometimes impractical/imposable due to a couple of different reasons ranging from if all the hits of a shoryu were landed/blocked and if it was crouching or standing blocked affect whether Mak needs to walk under or dash under)
As for getting out of Gouki’s rush down safely Mak only needs to do one of two things wait for you to go for a throw/kara throw and tech it or wait for him to cancel a poke into a demon flip and dash under.
Actually alot of players can and do, but for a lot of characters it isn’t necessary to parry it they can just reversal shoryu/super it on block so in that since it isn’t worth the risk to them.
But this is sa II Mak we are talking about and she needs to parry in order to punish with st fpxxabare
What your failing to see is that yes if makoto misses the parry Gouki gets a respectable amount of damage+knockdown. Unless she was quite low on hit points she is still has her meter and is just as capable of killing you with one combo as before, but if she didn’t miss your round is over.
So one could argue that the only really risky thing done was the Gouki cancelling into a hurricane on the block of a cancelable poke on Makotos half of the screen. All the Makoto player had to do is take a calculated risk which involved no guessing outside of whether it was a fwd or rh hurricane, which risk to reward factor was heavily in her favor and didn’t even require a red parry.