FADC combos and FADC Ultra combos


#1

Anyone worth their’ salt should know by now that tier lists are highly influenced by how easy it is for each character to land their’ ultra. For the most part, FADC combos are the easiest way to do this, and only comparatively few characters have this option.

What I want to discuss here is this:

Is this total bullshit?

FADC combos are freaking easy. Should Ryu be able to land 400 damage on you because he sneaked in a lp dp, which he would have FADC’d anyway, so the attempt is almost completely safe?

Would you prefer to see a Street Fighter where the tier list is not governed in such a way?

For the upcoming SF4 Dash, I would very much like to keep FADC combos in, but not necessarily have them synonymous with the ultra system. I think the game would be much more interesting if this happened:

-Increase hitstun. More hitstun means more options for normals based FADC combos, giving you room to create your own custom super combos, if you will.

-You can NEVER land an ultra after an FADC juggle. Certain ultras may be allowed, depending upon whether or not they are deemed balanced for the fact with the new SF4 Dash system.

Rufus’ ultra springs to mind. He sort of needs to be able to have access to this thing, though the damage may be reduced to keep his output in line with other characters. Ideally, though, I’d like to see all ultras as standalone attacks.

-Ultra properties changed to make them easy enough to land without the necessity for FADC’s. Examples include lower startup, larger hitboxes, and lower recovery times. Changes like this would make Ultras more like Super Turbo super combos.

-Damage reduction effects hauled in. With the threat of FADC ultra combos gone, there won’t be such a need for massive damage reduction effects, which allows previously mentioned FADC combos become more viable as an alternative to EX moves and super combos.

In my opinion, these would make SF4 dash a much more interesting game than SF4 is now. There would be more room for skilled combos, and no fear of eating a clumsy FADC’d DP into ultra. This would help the rushdown side of the game too.

This would also directly help lower tier characters, as FADC ultra combos were only helping the stronger characters. More balanced tiers = yay.

Discuss.


#2

Again?

Seriously?


#3

You would do so much better on GameFAQs.


#4

No thanks.


#5

How about you just have FADC options for those who can’t connect their Ultra’s? Not all (DH, FU), but those who need it (GU, Claw, Fei).

Problem solved.


#6

What do you mean by that? This is potentially a good idea but I need alittle elaboration first.


#7

Nice contradiction.

One of the only meaningful reasons the top tier characters are there is BECAUSE of their ability to combo into the ultra. But it’s not exclusively dependent on this, or else Akuma and Zangief would be tied with Vega along with Abel being up there with Chun-Li.

Less whining, wishing and fallacy - More fighting.


#8

yes.


#9

being able to combo into an ultra does not always mean that the character is going to be good.

Look at Sakura!

Gief and Akuma’s are command grabs so to even say anything about them not being able or being able to combo into theirs to try to make a point is pretty…off.

some characters need ways to combo into theirs given that they have a low damage output as it is.

Vega should be able to combo his from EX Barcelona imo. It’s not exactly damaging anyway, so why not?

/2cents


#10

I think SF4 should go the route of SF2 Turbo Alpha World Warrior 2010 Championship VS. Sesame Street HD Remix edition and not work to nerf characters (like Sagat, Ryu, Akuma) but have everybody at that level while keeping the top tier essentially the same.

For example,
Sakura could use a damage buff OR a health increase OR a compromise on both.
Dictator could use a FADC -> Ultra setup OR an anti-air OR better use for his PC.
Guile could use a third move.
Dan could have a better use for all of his taunts (like crouch taunt changes the hitbox or something like that). We already know his jump taunt and super taunt are useful (at least in some fashion).


#11

Take a look at the characters who can FADC into their’ ultras. They are often fundamentally stronger characters anyway. FADC ultra combos only helps them even more.

With the complete absence of FADC ultra combos, however, the tier lists would instantly look alot better than they do now.

Perhaps the order in which the characters are positioned would remain more or less the same, but certainly the gap between the lower ranks and the higher ranks would see a sharp reduction.


#12

Poor troll is troll.


#13

Really getting tired of stupid ass game changing nerfs. I do not have a problem with Ryu’s FADC.


#14

I played a Ryu yesterday would get a free ultra and over off random dps and like you I thought it was BS too. But then I realized it was my fault for getting hit by it and not learning to adapt my game to the options my opponent has.

So yes, Ryu should.

It’s on you to learn to block.


#15

I will say sagat doesn’t need his f/HK to set up juggles. Catching someone with an AA f/HK TWICE into ultra is really a bit much.

ryu juggling his ultra is perfectly fine because comboing into it, the entire combo does what a normal ultra does. Sagats ultra alone does i think 575 max damage.

What im really surprised about is how little complaints there are about rufus’ ultra setups. lol, that dude can combo his ultra on the ground or the air without even using meter.

If you really think characters that have good ultra setups are extra powerful, just start using one of them, then you cant say your character is disadvantaged.


#16

The only nerf Sagat needs is to not be able to use f/hk ultra off of a trade. Shit is bonkers. Other than that he really is fine.

I’m all for buffing lower mid to low tier and leaving the rest alone.

Guile doesn’t necessarily need a 3rd move…just a way to guarantee his ultra. I wish his super and his ultra were fundamentally different.


#17

I’m seeing this slowly progress into a “LOL NERF SAGAT” thread.

Can we just close this before it progresses into anything worse?

If combo’ing into ultra is what the tiers are so heavily based off of, than what is sakura doing at the bottom?

Though after Sabre’s performance I think she moved up a bit ^_~


#18

I know how to block. But either way, dp’s that are fadc’d are essentially a free ultra attempt, and unless everyone else can get free ultra attempts, I don’t see why this should apply to Ryu, seeing as how he is such a solid package (lol innuendo) to begin with.

Of course, we’re not just talking Ryu here. And we’re not just talking about FADC ultra combos. We’re talking about an ideal system for Street Fighter 4: Second Impact.


#19

This has been discussed so many times…


#20

Personally I find the FADC combos/ultras to be one of the reasons I really enjoy this game. I still find most of them very hard to do with right timing and learning them while learning to play with a stick is great fun. I do wish at times though that the execution window was slightly bigger for certain combos as I find the timing to be extremely strict at times. Guess it’s just my lack of experience, muscle-memory and skills.