Fei Long in USF4

Updated with the changes from this list.

The crouch short being 4 frames is bad, but not being able to link it it twice into stand jab to crouch jab rekka sucks. I plan on playing him still (eventually I’ll learn gen as well) because I like characters not tiers. I played Vega for a minute and he isn’t good. I think it maybe to early to tell but I fully plan on playing him. Mago dropping him is sad but not surprising, sucks to see my favorite player dropping my favorite character.

I don’t want to say he’s toast, but with the loss of that clk pressure and some of his B&B hit confirms, it’s not looking great. Notice we haven’t seen a lot of video of his game play in USF4 while other non nerfed characters (Sagat) are getting tons of exposure. Capcom simply decided Fei being top tier for three versions of the game was enough. Sadly though it’s probably going to be a ghost town for the character now. If Mago is indeed out, that speaks volumes. I assume we’ll see Fuudo playing Ryu or someone new as well. Hopefully I’m wrong, but probably not.

I was really hoping to see cr.LK get a last minute buff to +4 HIT in return for the 4F and Non-Chain nerf. Can’t say I’m surprised or upset to not see it.

The EX Tenshin trap was the only thing really addressed about Fei Long that people took issue with. The reduction of Light Rekka-ken reach and hitstun by most accounts sounds to be negligible, it amazes me they didn’t tweak the corner carry. That struck me as more an issue to people than his reach. Further decrease in Fei Longs’ damage potential with the Tenshin scale, loss of cr.LK x2 hit confirm and pressure application due to its low pushback is going to be a bummer.

At least we got a revert on cr.MP, UC1 Juggle buff and a 2F faster EX Tenshin, eh? That’s something to look forward to.

Speaking of Sagat, I see him flattening Fei now. He won’t be the only one, but as a Sagat player too, that match up just got a whole easier.

Ultra will be dominated by good footsies. In my opinion Fei will still be top/high tier because he has some of the best. Ppl will start using cr.lk,cr.lp , cr.lp and cr.lk st.lp , cr.lp etc instead of 2x cr.lk. In my opinion they really didn’t do much to him except force him to use EX rekkas to punish some things due to the decrease in distance traveled on lp rekka. He will still be a very good character. U1 buff is awesome also.

I think the cr.mp buff is a much bigger change than people expect. Sure the cr.lk nerf makes hit-confirming harder (but not impossible), so our damage will suffer a bit, however a damage increase on such an important move like cr.mp makes up for it imo. That and the ultra hitting 3 times means Fei is a much more damaging character now.

I think he’ll be fine. Not top tier, but still viable imo. Regarding Mago dropping him, I personally got the impression that he simply grew tired of the character, he never said Fei was bad.

i don’t think the cr.lk nerf hurts his damage really. If you just confirm cr.lk, cr.lp (chain) then link cr.lp that’s the same damage as cr.lk(x2) cr.lp. cr.lk nerf is really only 4 frame startup.

Also you can plink cr.lp with cr.lk so that you get a cr.lp but still tech a throw (see xians academy) that way you can “tech” with the 3 frame normal and still confirm off of it. IMO the cr.lk nerf was irrelevant because we can adapt to other combos that do the same damage.

And yeah Duaie the cr.mp buff is awesome… frametrap cr.mp to rekka better damage! =]

So correct me if I’m wrong but some of the guys in my community are thinking/slash saying cr lk to stand jab will be a 1 frame link? I’m playing him regardless I love the character, I think I’m more bummed that mago is dropping him because he is my favorite player.

Linking st.LP from cr.LK has always been a 1F Link.

I’m not sure about Sagat “flattening” Fei Long, but he certainly will be in a better position to hold ground.

I don’t think anyone thinks the cr.LK nerf will hurt his damage output. Personally, I’m more curious about how much it will affect his up close pressure strings, since it’s his crouching normal that generates the least pushback. I find a cr.LK followed by a cr.LP to generate more pushback than I’d like to work around when applying pressure.

It hurts his damage output because it’s gonna be more difficult to convert from cr.lk. Unless you’re committing to a 1 frame link, we’ll end up doing cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.lp, far st.lk and that’s it, whereas now we can hit confirm two cr.lk and still be able to do st.lp, cr.lp -> rekka due to the lesser pushback. It’s still possible to hit-confirm with just one cr.lk, it’s just impractical.

What I’d REALLY like to see is a buff to his fwd HK. That move has been useless since vanilla SF4, and it was never buffed for whatever reason. Not that he needs it, but at least it would make the character a bit more fun to use.

if cr.lk chains into cr.lp can’t you do cr.lk xx cr.lp , (link) cr.lp? I’ve been using this combo anyway and you still confirm off of 2 crouch light attacks. Cr.lp link cr.lp is still a one frame link. This is the same difficulty as before and same damage. You could also cr.lk xx st.lk , (link) cr.lp. Confirming off of two is pretty easy.

This is me assuming cr.lk can chain into everything in AE2012 except for cr.lk in ULTRA. This is correct right?

Edit above is on crouching opponent,

On a standing opponent do cr.lk xx st.lp to confirm then link cr.lp. I’ve also been doing this anyway because it would annoy me when at certain distances cr.lk(x2) xx st.lp the cr.lp would whiff. Its only like 4 damage less.

I was also thinking. Right now in AE2012 you can do f.throw slight step jump mp and its a really ambiguous xup/nonxup on some characters. Since DWU is 11 frames and we can react we could do:

F.throw -> take that slight step > DWU = No jump mp, DWU = Yes st.lp (12 total frames) > jump mp. There is a difference of a frame here and I’m not sure how huge of a difference it will make? Might have to walk a tad less. Thoughts on this?

Nice will probably work if you walk 1 frame less before the standing lp.

I thought of something similar to replace the ambiguous crossup in the corner after forward throw when the opponent DWU:

(No DWU) Forward throw -> whiff cr.lk/lp (14 frames), jump mp
(DWU) Forward throw -> whiff throw (25 frames), jump mp

I don’t think you can react to DWU, since “technical” only shows up when the opponent is already entering the actual wakeup phase. Besides, if you could react, it would be a useless mechanic.

The setups you listed will probably still work, but it’s a guess and not a reaction.

Damn my bad, you are correct the “Technical” message shows up after Fei has recovered from the throw I thought it showed up a little earlier. :frowning:

Now this makes me seriously wish that Fei had a 11 frame move like Cammy, Ken, Sakura etc.

Isn’t st.lp 11 frames? 12-1 because the first active frame is included in the startup.

(No DWU) Foward throw(Corner) cr.lp j.mp
(DWU) Foward throw(Corner) cr.lp st.lp j.mp

(No DWU) Back throw walk back slighty st.lp j.mp
(DWU) Back throw walk back slighty st.lp st.lp j.mp

Would you have time to confirm the technical message while you are whiffing the first move?

I’ve no idea :S

At 04:03 Fei does a forward throw in the corner and the opponent does DWU. It looks like the “Technical” message shows up as soon as Fei recovers so it might be hard to react in time after a crlp/cr.lk. The backthrow variation might be easier to confirm.

Perhaps we can react during the “slight walk” phase of the set up. I agree that will have to be a fast reaction but maybe doable. Anyway I know some people who have played in the japanese arcades and they say fei is still top tier the cr.lk nerf did nothing to him =].

Also HK CW , st.hp xx EX RFA , U1 does ~510 damage 420 stun
command throw , st.hp xx EX RFA , U1 does ~412 damage not sure on the stun
command throw , st.hp xx mk fk , hk cw , U1does ??? I forget what non animation U1 does but before the U1 i have 267. I feel as though its safe to say the EX RFA combo does more.

Yeah I’m reconsidering how much I thought the cr lk nerfs effect Fei overall, since I completely overlooked the idea of chaining back into cr lk. Cr lk, cr lk, cr lp, cr lp was almost always the combo I went for. So now it just seems the order is different. For block strings I’m guessing we can work with cr lk cr lp cr lk as well.

Of course I’m just going by what I can see for now since I’m away from home for a while and can’t test anything.