One major part of my game I have identified as being absolutely piss poor is my wakeup game and mixup game. As a whole, it absolutely stinks. When I play people like Higg1n5 for example, he absolutely pummels me with his, and I know there is a master thread but I would like to here from some of our more skilled Fei’s, what strategies do you guys find best? And what is your mindset when heading into a match. I know it is obviously going to vary based on opponent and character, however what is the general basis for doing what you do?
On your wake up, unless you spot that their safe jump was mis-timed or they do a slow overhead etc, just block as well as you can. Too much can go wrong if you start trying to FK or EX CW your way out. If blocking is your priority, you’re going to eat less damage. At least, do that until you can comfortably block most mixups to a reasonable standard. Work on your teching, more specifcally judging when to late tech and so on. Judging when to FK during some wake-up pressure, after the intial meaty attack, is also something that takes ages to start getting right, but is very valuable to start making them respect you more.
On their wake up, good general options are:
Meaty light attack into a tick throw
Meaty light into something like cl.MP for a frame trap
Tenshin, better to be cancelled from a normal
Meaty light attack with an OS
FK FADC, timed slightly late so that if they wake up DP theirs starts first and so their invincibility also runs out first
Do nothing, with a OS tech after the wake up so prevent a throw
Those are just some things coming to my head right now. The j.MP one can be followed by any of the ones below it, as can most really if you’re getting into a flow. It might seem like there’s too much to think about all at once, and you’ll probably get DP’d when you’re just about to do something mint, but it takes a good deal of time to work in all of those options to your game, and eventually you just start to do them without thinking, which is when you start to be able to play more against the player, instead of the character.
I think it’s nice to know all these options. However, to be able to efficiently use them at their full potential, i think any player should think foremost about reading your opponent. Does he like to crouch tech on wakeup, or reversal, backdash etc.? Even the highest level of players do fall in some kind of pattern. Once you know their tendency, you can choose the appropriate options. On the defensive side, it is the same thing. What options do your opponent tend to do, meaty? ambiguous cross? throw? command grab? safe jumps? I think one of the best features about AE is the fact you can view your online match replays, i wish they could of included that in offline mode too. You can really analyse your own strength and weakness by looking at your own matches. Then compare to people that beats you and see what was the problem.
Yea but my problem right now is something as simple as timing a jump in. I dont think I am yet at the point where I allow a players patterns dictate my options. Right now I think that, given my skill set, I have to make decisions based on the character’s skill set and the options they have, and not so much what the guy is playing like.
I just dont think I am good enough to do that on a consistent basis when I dont even know all my options, let alone how to time them and execute them consistently.
You definitely need to be able to walk before you attempt to run.
As long as you’re not kidding yourself about your progress, you’ll improve gradually. It’s happened on a couple of occasions to me where I’ve literally began to think that I was getting close to the top level, before having a wake-up call and getting bummed out over it. It’s all part of the process.
At this point Spartan I get a guy down and my head starts swimming because I have all of these options and I dont know whats what. I end up jumping too soon and clearing the guy and getting tossed, or jumping too late and getting DP’d. Or I stand there like a schmuck and get kicked in the teeth.
And I am horribly inconsistent. I will play someone who is light years better than me and I will be on point and play very well, then play someone I should annhilate and they beat me with some gimmicky crap because I get annoyed and just start flailing around.
I either play well, or I play like shit. Consistency is not my strong suit.
Basic timing for jumpins:
Forward throw - walk forward and jump for a safe jump, or walk forward slightly further to land on their head and avoid DPs
Back throw - take a tiny step back with a little pause after wards and jump (you can whiff a st.LP or something to time the pause)
After Rekkas in the corner - you can hold forwards jump after the Rekkas for a perfectly timed jump if they quick-stand
FK FADC CW - same deal as above, almost
Sweep - all depends on how close your were when you swept, so look into that in the training room
Practise those things in the training room to get your timings right consistently.
INot that I’m a high level Fei! but I used to have similar problems Noodie until I started to learn to bait opponents better. It’s probably the most efficient way to play Fei Long as we have such high Damage combo’s.
Learning to stop your chains and block (to bait the reversal) and also backdashing have improved my game quite a bit. Another bait option on some opponents is to walk up as if your going to start a block string or throw and just neutral jump. I watched Fuudo do this against Latif in the Final and he baited out quite a few throws and punished with full 300+ combos , again similar in the Poongko match he would just walk up then just back dash on wake up.
Fuudo’s actually taught me quite a bit just from watching his vids.
When you say stop your chains, do you mean just from an attacking standpoint. So in other words, you get someone on wake up and cut a combo or block string short to get them to try to reversal and then punish?
Exactly that. I find for example, j.mp , cr.lk x 2 …stop. A lot of players mash a reversal right at that point because that’s the transition point in that combo, and they know that. It can also work in your favour the other way because if you stop and they don’t mash reversal, you can walk forward a little as if going for a throw and counter hit their tech attempt. You see Mago doing this quite a bit, cr lk x 2…stop, walk forward…cr.mp (or another cr.lk into Bnb)
Also , you don’t always have to be in someone’s face on wake up. A scarier position for Fei sometimes is about a character and a half away, they are then guessing…will he over head?, Lp rekka? Do I push something here or just block? … putting doubt in their heads.
Watch Fuudo there, just always staying in that range where chun can’t doing anything, and if she whiffs he punishes hard.
[FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=#141414][FONT=Helvetica][COLOR=#141414]Personally this is my goal also, to start being a bit more unpredictable. Fei Long is very straight forward, there’s nothing magical about his pressure and there are no quality mix ups like say Akuma or Viper (outside of tenshin set ups) . Good players know this and just bait you out. [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT]
I want to understand the mindset behind this. Correct me if I am wrong, but is this done to reset the damage scaling on combos? In other words, rather than do an 8 hit, you would do a 4, stop, bait a reversal and then punish with the remaining 4, for a higher damage total?
I know this is a crude example but you know what I mean…
He means to do a true block-string where your opponent can’t perform a move during the blocking, and then intentionally stop so that if they were mashing on something they will do it and whiff. And by leaving only a small gap after the cr.LKs before carrying on, if they mashed something you will block it, and if they didn’t you can go for a walk up throw/blockstring etc.
If you’re looking to reset a good place is after landing a HK/EX CW, because it’s the obvious place to mash for opponents. If they’re looking to hit you if you miss your link after the CW they either whiff or have to burn 2 bars to make it safe. If they don’t do either though you’ve just wasted some very good damage so it depends on the opponent.
A simple but effective reset is when you do the second HP Rekka, stop and throw. From personal experience and from using it often myself, a lost of people go into auto-pilot down-back mode waiting for your Rekkas to finish, so even though you’ve stopped your Rekka and you’re something like -6, you can easily catch people with this if they’re not paying attention. It works on me like a charm because I always check the life bars or look at my laptop before I even notice they didn’t do the Rekkas.
Really noob question. What are my options after a full rekkas in the middle of the stage? ie. They fly really far away from me. I usually do 1 or 2 light rekkas to close the distance and build some meters, but I feel like there must be more options than that.
Spartan’s advice on the CW is something I’ve started doing online quite a bit. Particularly if it’s to not quite kill the opponent , but to put them at a critical stage in the match. You’d be surprised how many quality players will mash at that point. You can fully expect a EX headbutt/Tiger uppercut 80% of the time. If I have the life lead, I’ll either play it safe and go lp xxx rekka or just block and full punish, depending how my game is that day.
Your point about stopping mid -combo is still valid, this is still a legit tactic although I was referring more to your wake up question. Plus Fei Long usually gains a better advantage sticking with the combo and going to sweep combo or rekka to the corner.
Most Fei Long players will dash forward then start another chain to catch an opponents wake up. Either that or just dash forward until you close the ground.
I like this one. I never even thought of that, but I cant count how many times I get hit with DP or something after landing the HK CW because I miss the timing with the HP, for example. The idea of just blocking immediately after is simple but effective. I played a match this morning, and off my first HK CW i landed the HP into Rekkas. I was able to HK CW crlk into rekkas the next one to finish the same round. The next one, midway through rd 2, I blocked immediately after the CW and sure enough a DP came out i guess the guy mashed out of panic. I was able to Ultra for the win.
Thanks so effing much. Between you two and Higgins, you guys are awesome.
These are the stepping stones to improving. Some tricks or strategies will come and go from your playstyle as you learn different things and sometime forget a thing or two, but when you can fully utilise them all, you can start to get really hard to beat.
Yes, this is very good info. I’ve found a couple on my own (i.e., they were done to me, haha).
Okizeme tactics are definitely a must.
btw… you can Ultra 1 a fireball from a shoto and hit for full animation, but only if the first hit of Ultra 1 whiffs (Mago did it to Ryu in last year’s GG).
I pulled that off on a buddy of mine online when he tried to chip me out with a fireball on my wakeup. I mindfucked him so much that in the next round, he caught himself doing the same thing and immediately FADC’d out of the fireball, hehe.