Fei Long's Counter Ultra, a look back

fei-long

#1

So it’s been almost half a year since SSF4 was released and I was thinking about originally how I had posted that petition for them to change the counter ultra. I know some people’s opinions have changed but I was curious how everyone stands on it now that we’ve had some time with the ultra.

Do you find yourself using it much?
Does the ultra actually come through for you more often than not?
Do you feel another ultra would have still suited him better?
What would you change, or are you happy with how it is now?

I personally still don’t like it very much but I use it in a select few matchups. I still generally think the U1 does most of the work U2 can do except vs safe jumps and certain attacks but vs Akuma, Rufus, Gouken, and maybe a few others with dive kicks, I find I’m able to land it atleast with a little more regularity than other matchups. I still don’t like the fact it has an ultra flash, I think that hurts it in most matchups, and the recovery time is waaaay too long, but I suppose it has it’s place since we’re stuck with it.

I think I still would have preferred a command grab ultra though. (not the shitty ones you can jump out of like Guy’s, maybe more like Honda’s where you have to be stupid close but it’s still 1 frame atleast)


#2

My opinion of it hasn’t changed much.

It is quite match up specific, such as Rufus, Ibuki, and C.Viper, maybe even M.Bison to some degree. Even in those match ups, I don’t really activate it, as it tends to be more effective at scaring them into tossing out certain moves (assuming they are smart/adaptable), making it easier to close in, and maintain pressure. I never thought of it as a bad Ultra, but not a good one either, as you mentioned, the Ultra Flash makes it a little less viable in most match ups. If the counter window lasted the entire duration, the Ultra was able to be canceled like Abel U2, or the whiffed counter stance was just shortened, I think it would have been better.

It certainly has its purpose, though extremely limited, and is satisfying when successful, but I’d rather he had received a different Ultra 2. A 1 Frame Command Grab would probably be more viable, I’d accept a 2 Frame as well.


#3

I still don’t use it. Cross ups are the only good times to use it, but it’s still not worth it to me.


#4

my only gripe is the extra long recovery, and the only reason i have that gripe is because abel can cancel his, and rose has 2% risk for activating hers at random. thats probrablly more my problem with their ultras, and less my not liking the recovery on fei’s

it has kinda changed the way i manage meter too. i save for my super, and run U2 in every match now. most of my success landing it is from anti air. i could flame kick almost every jump in, but 400+ unscaled dmg is too good for me to pass up

also i find myself trying to catch reads on my opponents more too when i have it. like at a recent casual session vs a good bison last week. on a KD, i went for a meaty f+RH and noticed he tried to regain momentum after blocking it with a reversal scissor kick. i took note and the next time i got a similar situation i went F+RH, waited a split sec and activated U2. caught him doing scissors.

you can get easy reads when you throw out attacks that are safe and your opponent knows you wont be getting heavy advantage. like from fei’s heavy normals etc.

EDIT: feis ultra 1 is extremely bad. for me it comes down to which one will i use more often. i rarely ever use U1 when i have it. i know you can fadc into it, but fei dosent have any good hit confirms into his DP. also i rarely wake up DP so it dosent fit my play style to have it and never use it


#5

Ultra2 is very good; and it’s not used at his full potential yet. The best part of it is it changes the playstyle of your opponents. Let’s assume you play a decent opponent:

-Abel: Not so usefull, mashing it between blockstring is meh
-Adon: crossup medium kick vortex is a no-no, can be option selected on his wake-up
-Akuma: goodbye divekicks, cross up tatsu
-Balrog(Boxer): no safe jump-in
-Blanka: no random rainbow ball, heavy ultra1 punish
-C.Viper: no ambigous cross up firekick on wake up
-Cammy: obviously they don’t vortex you the same way
-Chun-li: hanzashu, command cross up
-Cody: don’t know, not so usefull I guess
-Dan: oh well
-Deejay: same as adon
-Dhalsim: not easy, but you can catch some limb here and there
-Dudley: not so usefull but can catch his overhead and some jumpin elbow
-E.Honda: buttsplash
-El Fuerte: takes away 2 options, splash and slide
-Feilong: can’t say
-Gen: so you love to cross me up?
-Gouken: takes away his dive kick, but not so usefull
-Guile: u2 is meh, assuming they don’t throw random double sweep
-Guy: takes away a lot of his mix up
-Hakan: not so usefull
-Ibuki: goodbye penguin
-Juri: not so usefull but I guess you can option select it on her wakeup
-Ken: no safe jumpin, no cross up tatsu
-M.Bison(Dictator): no safe jumpin, not headstomp follow up
-Makoto: can’t say
-Rose: u2 is meh
-Rufus: no insane dive kick pressure on your wake up, can be option selected
-Ryu: no safe jump, no crossup tatsu
-Sagat: u2 is meh
-Sakura: can’t say
-Seth: no jump happy seth
-T.Hawk: u2 is meh
-Vega(Claw): somes uses here and there, can be option selected
-Zangief: no double splash on your wake up

While option-select u2 get beat by backdash on wake up, I don’t see a lot of fei using it. I find it not so easy to do, but performed correctly it’s a really powerfull option select.
And I miss a lot of u2 uses for sure. Even I you don’t use it, the only fact of changing your opponent playstyle and pattern already makes it a good (maybe great) ultra.

oh well, maybe i’m wrong! WATCHAA


#6

I’d say that Fei long’s ultras are certainly not his strong point, and I’ve come to the decision that counter ultra is a playstyle choice. If you feel you’re good at reacting, then I think U2 is the better ultra. There’s also plenty of times where it’s free if you block the first portion of an attack, like Honda’s buttslam. If you block it on the way up, it’s free counter ultra on the way down.


#7

I keep the Counter Ultra against some very specific matchups. Cammy, Rufus, Ibuki. The recovery is nuts and I don’t know why it’s so bad. It comes out for me or I get EX Flame Kick sometimes.

I can’t really think of a better Ultra idea so if someone comes up with a great one (not a grab, Capcom would make it bad and you know it) I’ll accept it.


#8

I belong to the camp that swears by it. Aside from a few specific matchups, I go with U2 in general. I’ve successfully baited opponents into U2 after Rekka-2 too many times. It’s a fantastic feeling to learn an opponent’s habit and catch him with a U2 at just the right time.

It’s likely ill-considered, but I always thought that it wouldn’t be a bad idea for U2 to be cancellable, which makes the move a sad whiff in the worst case scenario, and may open up some attack options for Fei.


#9

I’m one of the select few (probably?!) that’s perhaps the other way round than the norm.

I swore by Ultra 2 for more than the majority of match ups (especially shoto’s, which most people again seem to disagree with). But now I find myself edging towards Ultra 1 for certain Characters to change it up.

I agree with the cancel comments, I’d also add that once you’ve landed it against an opponent, they will then try to bait you the same way you caught them the first time. It’s a mind fuck. Best left if you can actually see the move and react in that split second.

I’d have thought it would have suited a nice new special as oppose to an Ultra.


#10

In the last time I have completely abandoned Ultra 2.

I used to use it against Balrog and Bison but nowadays I’m too unpatient to wait which character my opponent in Ranked selects and just hammer on my confirm-button like a compulsive gambler (thereby always selecting Ultra I) to get into the fight.

Also having :3k: on my Saturn pad’s L-trigger is a reason why I don’t like switching between Ultras. I can’t push both dpad and L-trigger comfortably with my left hand.
So I tend to only use Ultras ending in :3p: (which is mapped to the R-trigger).


#11

the good thing about it is not the ultra itself. when opponents know you have U2 ready, they usually back off and get on defensive mode that lets you be the aggressor. but with focus attack being such a big part of the game, i just cant help it just to have U1 available when i crumble my opponent. i still consider myself a scrub with Fei (2000bp/1000pp), im not sure if ive leveled up a little but i notice im definitely getting more wins with U1. for those whos great @ crushing guard, U2 might have alot of potential if used properly.


#12

I still don’t like it but in choosing between ultra 2 or ultra 1, I’ll pick ultra 2. Seriously though, it’s like choosing between two of your children, with both being retarded and in wheel chairs. The only difference between them being one is right handed and the other is left handed.

The only reason why I prefer ultra 2 is so I can save for super. Pretty much the same reason as HNIC.

Another reason why I prefer ultra 2 is so that it opens up tenshin opportunities. Opponent tries to bait ultra 2 and wham, gets hit with tenshin > super instead.

But I guess it’s all about play style. If you enjoy offensive combos that deal as much damage in as few turns as possible then ultra 1, if you are like me and prefer to poke, punish, set-up guessing games then ultra 2.


#13

I feel it should have been a command grab as well. I just learned I can counter Blanka U1 and that just changed my entire outlook on one of my worst match ups. It helps a lot if you face a player whose game is based on crossups. With online play I noticed even when activated correctly it won?t counter. Here are my 4 examples where I used it and I still got hit.

  1. Balrog, I had about a cr.FP or more distance from Rog. He went for a random U1. That gave me enough time to throw out my U2 yet I still ate the entire U1 from Rog (I counter Sagats U1 before)

  2. Gen again good distance between us. I Chicken wing to cut the distance the Gen player throws his U1 as I land with a good amount of distance. I throw U2 thinking “oh yeah rnd over” instead I eat full U1 from Gen (Again I counter other characters U?s)

  3. Makato We are at each end of the screen I Lk Chicken wing to close ground Makato jumps back into U2 I have a great amount of space. I hit U2 thinking “he will think twice about throwing that U2” instead again I eat his U and I lose the rnd. (You know the deal)

  4. Ken this player is down in the match and he starts throwing hurricane kicks to gain ground. So I FHK to bait him into another hurricane kicks. I dash back see his EX hurricane kick from 2 character lengths away. I throw out U2 and surprise, surprise. No reversal. (Again even on EX moves I have had U2 counter it)

I use U1 mostly so after a jump in on fireball player I can get the quick hit into a U1. It sucks that Capcom hasn?t patched his U1. Flame kick EX cancel to chicken wing then U1 should be Fei?s B&D like Ryu?s DP cancel into his U1. If Abel can catch a player out of mid air with his U1 and inflict full damage, why cant Fei?


#14

like everyone else i use u2 for certain match ups mainly rushdown characters except bison and vortex people, once their on the defensive you can begin ur offense

capcom could of at least made the input like cammys so we’re still blocking


#15

I actually prefer U2 against characters that have stong cross up games, namely Viper and Zangief. At least in the Zangief match it forces Zangief to sometimes empty jump rather then always cross you up, which gets you out of trouble a few times during a match. I feel U2 alone evened up that match a bit more, but Z still clearly wins it overall.

-wes


#16

I smell a troll.

You do realize that U2 only counters non-armor breaking moves right? In the case of having countered Sagat’s U1 before, it probably happened during a portion of his ultra where the armor breaking property had already passed. I suggest you go back to the lab and test U2 again on moves that armor break, versus moves that don’t.


#17

So because I post moments where my U2 failed me I am called a troll? No wonder outsiders frown on the SF community. There always some negative statement made towards others within the community. One other thing, Fei U2 doesnt have any armor properties. So to not seem like a troll to you, I will test it tonight against every characters special and U’s and post the results.


#18

Your right in that it doesn’t have any armor capabilities but it will still lose to armor breaking moves (tatsu, tiger knee, ect.), which was part of the argument XsamuraiX made almost a year ago.

For me I agree with XsamuraiX, I use this for exclusive match-ups. But 9 times out of 10 I go with U1. It’s just hard for me to execute the motion in time for the opponents next move, which usually leaves me in a horrible whiff U2 recovery, while the opponents limb is being retracted (ie I missed the active frames of their attack)


#19

I miss that argument, I have to look it up. I still will give it a test so I can have a better idea what moves it could counter. I until yesterday didint know it could counter Blanks U1. That Ultra gave me nightmares. I keep forgetting to block low then high or whatever. Now I can apply that pressure and force him to do it on wakeup. Trial and error the only real way to find out.


#20

Recovery way too long. I dont know what developers were thinking. U1 most of the time (atleast for FA crumples).