It’s apparent that you’re not absorbing me or anyone else’s posts. Take a good second and listen to what I say. Every single match in ST is completely winnable. Certain characters have obvious advantages over others, but that does not mean that the character with the disadvantage cannot win the match. That is what me and everyone else has been trying to tell you so far. Why is it so hard for you to understand such a simple concept?
Man I understand that completely. I’m not going to argue against that shit, you would have to be retarded to do so. I just feel your really out to get me and prove something against me.
Well if you understand this then why would you come out with absurd statements like “Dhalsim and Guile are no challenge for Fei Long,” when everything else points otherwise?
Ok, so you give a listing of good/fair/bad matchups. Could you analyze these? Like for instance, lets start with the good matchups. Please explain why Fei has good matchups vs Zangief and T Hawk, going into detail about key strengths/tactics/weaknesses for each character in the match up. What is Fei’s game plan for each of these match ups?What are things Fei can do to win/dominate the match? Also, since every match is winnable, what are things Fei must watch out for that the other person can do, and how does Fei counter these?
Fei vs. Hawk:
Fei can just use his general gameplan to take on Hawk. Fei’s main objective in a match is to get in close on an opponent and overwhelm him with speed. So you can wreck shop against Hawk with basic rekka ken pressure strings, cw trapping, tick throws, etc. He doesn’t have much options to stop you unless he can work out a reversal DP, or SPD.
Fei vs. Gief:
Basically the same as Hawk but he’s a bit more threatening. Just don’t become scared of his SPD.
Exarkun, nobody’s out to get you, it’s just that you need to back up your statements about matchups more. Corner Trap and I (and others, too) have explained why we feel Guile and Dhalsim are very hard matches for Fei, but you haven’t explained why you disagree other than to hand out platitudes like noting every match is winnable. It could be that a dozen years of Street Fighter players have been wrong, but in order for us to believe that, we need some reasons.
Anyway, as a Gief and Honda player, I can tell you about Fei’s matchups with them.
Fei v Honda is retarded. Honda holds down back and if Fei ever gets anywhere near him, he does headbutt or negative edge command grab. Honda just plays super turtle the entire time, and Fei doesn’t have much to counter it. Fei can try psychic dragon punch to beat headbutts, but that’s hard and not very dependable and only works a little distance away from Honda. Fei has things that annoy Honda from a distance, like standing fierce, standing jab, and dragon punch, but Honda has no reason to attack at that distance. The onus is totally on Fei to solve Honda’s defense, and that’s really hard for him.
Fei v Zangief is probably Fei’s best matchup. Fei wants to play just outside Gief’s poke range with annoying things like crouching fierce, standing fierce, rekkas for punishing whiffed moves, and the like. What Fei really wants, though, is to start up his chickenwing games, where Fei does chickenwing, standing fierce, chicken wing, something else, chickenwing, etc. Chickenwing, standing fierce, chickenwing is safe, but after that you have to guess right to keep it going, like another chickenwing if you think Gief is gonna try spd or low roundhouse if you think he’s gonna lariat, etc. This does huge chip and is really hard for Gief to get out of. So your pokes beat Gief from a distance, and your chickenwing beats him up close.
Edit: For Fei v Hawk, O Hawk’s negative edge spd and invincible dragon punch mean trying for a second chickenwing in the chickenwing trap is risky, so you should just go for chickenwing-normal move-rekkas to keep him in constant block stun.
Questions that arise:
Whats a good counter for Gief’s lariat when its initiated: close, mid screen; far away?
When Gief/Hawk jumps at you and attacks, is there anyway the flame kick will get snuffed by one of his regular jumping attacks?
Is there a way for Gief/Hawk to reversal SPD the chicken trap (mainly during/after the first hit or two of the actual chicken wing)
Similarly, can Gief/Hawk reversal SPD a meaty cl. HP
Whats Fei’s best jump in attack?
What moves/mistakes can Gief/Hawk take advantage of?
If Fei is cornered by Gief/Hawk, what are some ways to escape?
Good questions! Basically, the way to play these matches is to zone them out with pokes and antiairs.
If Gief does lariat close to you, just do crouching roundhouse or crouching fierce him. If he does it midscreen, either try the same or time chickenwing to hit him as soon as the lariat ends. If he does it far away, who cares.
Will the flame kick get stuffed by a jumping attack? Depends. If you do the flame kick too early, yeah, it can trade or get stuffed. If you do it late, it’ll usually win, but don’t do it too late or they’ll safe jump in and throw you. You can also use chickenwing, but you have to do it earlier.
Can they spd out of the chickenwing trap? Definitely not while the chickenwing is going on. Chickenwing-standing strong/fierce-chickenwing against Gief is safe from the right distance and with the right chickenwing strength (don’t know which that is, I only know this matchup from the opponent’s view), but after that, sure, if you stay on the ground and you’re within throwing distance, you can get spun. Against Hawk, it’s safer just to do chickenwing-strong-rekkas and go back to zoning.
Can they reversal spd a meaty? Yep, any noninvincible ground attack done within their range can be grabbed. This is especially dangerous for you against Hawk, who will always do negative edge spd on wakeup if you’re close, and if you’re grabbable you’ll get grabbed, and if you’re not, nothing will happen. Don’t ever do any close ground normal against Hawk or Gief, meaty or otherwise.
Whats Fei’s best jump in attack? Fei doesn’t really need to jump in, but apart from chickenwing, jumping roundhouse beats a lot, including lariat at some distances, and jumping forward can be used as a crossup into fierce into rekkas or chickenwing. You shouldn’t be jumping in unless you’re certain of your execution for fear of spd.
What can they take advantage of? Gief can lariat all over rekkas and can trade crouching roundhouse with any of your non-invincible attacks or use it to punish any whiffed attacks for great positioning. O Hawk can dragon punch through anything except a certain part of the chickenwing and can trade with part of the flame kick but has a harder time punishing normals. Both can spd through any of your ground attacks if you’re close enough, and both can safe jump in when you’re waking up and throw you.
What can Fei do when cornered? If you’re facing Hawk, not much; Hawk can just safe jump in each time you wake up, block and then spin you if you did a reversal or just spin you if you didn’t, and repeat until you’re dead, although you should still try reversals just in case the opponent messes up. Gief can’t do that, he can usually only get one and sometimes two safe jumps into spd until he lands too far away to do another, and in any case you can reversal flame kick in between his tick and spd attempt. When Gief gets thrown too far away or you reversal his spd, start up your same ol’ zoning game.
Anti-air low fierce against Hawk jump jab, then link wrekkas, or another fierce (stand/crouch). Really fun combo.
s.short is funny vs gief.
The Coner -Trap vs.Exarkun battle continues… LOL :lol:
Who will win!?!? :looney:
Response to your first question, don’t give gief anytime to move. If your going to constantly build pressure with the CW, always know two things. A flame kick can stuff some of his reversals, a crouching low kick is quicky enough to also stop the reversal. If you want to keep doing the whole pressure strings, CW with RH, standing jab,jab, cw again with a foward CW. Just in case he blocks low he will get hit with an overhead from the third kick of the cw, leaves you the opportunity to do a standing fierce rekka chain combo.
The first two hits of the CW leave fei long airborne, the third hit is where you are taking a risk of getting SPD, or getting a grand slam. After the third hit is where you want to time your reversal, under these circumstances don’t do a RH flame, or a foward flame, stick with a short flame. Short kick is used for the flame kick, other ones will render you useless and give gief time to come after fei. Although the Cw does change under it’s hit properties. The RH is all upper attacks, the foward CW leaves the third kick as an overhead, and the short CW leaves the last two kicks as overheads. Your best bet is to learn when to use this CW patterns to break there guard, just catch on to the way they are blocking.
Can gief reverse a Close fierce. In regards to the handshake Gief does not have reach. But in regards to reversaling a Standing up fierce from fei that depends on the situation. If you attempted a blocked fierce into rekka, gief can easily reversal the second REKKA hit of the chain. Example of this would be Standing Fierce, rekka, SPD. Reason being after a blocked standing fierce into rekka will push fei back far enough, and leave him in the frames of getting SPD. Your safest bet, would be to Standing Fierce, Flame kick, if you have trained them to block on a standing fierce, go in for tick throws, after they start catching on to the tick throws, then it’s time to start some CW pressure after the standing Fierce. Or if you know your gief player well enough to try and reverse a standing fierce, go for the massive invincibility frames of the rekka super. Shit works like a charm. Also, baiting the CW’s distance into a Super works. Just make them tick the throw, know your distance and bait them for a free 5hit super/7hit, depending if you want to CW after the super giving there position of the screen.
Best jump in attacks, I mainly use Jumping in jab, or jump in Roundhouse, or for overheads, jump in foward kick. Here is why with the jump in jab. The jump in jab can stop most of the characters areial normals, a jumping roundhouse, jumping fierce, will in most situatiosn get beat by fei’s jumping jab. Also if blocked on the ground you can build up a pressure string, here is how. Jump in jab, crouching jab, then the up fierce punch, from here you can cancel the fierce punch into rekka pressure or CW pressure. If you get the handshake that mean’s your to far away for the up fierce to connect. Jump in jab, into tick throw/ Jab,jab, Flame kick/ Jab, standing strong, into fierce chain. The level of creativity is limitless in these areas, just mix and match your own patterns. Roundhouse is great for getting that extra reach but also bad because fei’s hit targets are his feet and not his legs. you can pressure with a jumping RH into rekka or into fierce, samething as the jumping jab except for the jab,c.jab,Up Fierce pressure. Foward works great for overheads, or for your foe wanting to block low because of CW pressure or because of a habbit. Your main focus is to break there guard and just give them a fist full of pressure they don’t know what to do.
Gief and hawk can take advantage of a couple of things, let’s check them out. A fucked up CW presure is one mistake you will pay for, make sure you have this move down pact! If not, you will have a harder time taking victory. Remember the REACH of your Cw’s don’t keep throwing out the same ones!!! If you do you will be man handled very easily! Remember to mix up!! that’s what your key goals are! Every pressure string should require some mix up pattern… unless your playing somebody who isn’t so hot just go on autopilot. Don’t forget the spacing of rekka kens! If you are to far away to counter with a CW, and don’t want to take the risk of a whiffed handshake, give them a foward roundhouse, hell do it again just to look cool!
The Corner Situations. How does it feel to be put in the corner? It sucks. Against Zangief you want to pay close attention to what they DO!!! Make sure to block those body splash over heads and counter accordingly. The hitbox priorities are whacked when fei tries to do a Standing fierce to stop a body splash, it trades but the damage Fei takes is not worth it. a Foward flame kick will push fei up fast enough to stop the splash. The tick grabs! it’s enough watching fei die so quickly because of gief madness! pay close attention to grizzly grab ticks. Jumping in Body splash, standing short, into Grizzly grab, or SPD. As soon as you see gief throw his hands up in the air counter this attack either by throwing gief, or simply jumping up. Taking evasive action isn’t so bad, remember gief is only dangerous if he’s close. If your gief foe is using massive pressure strings look for openings, watch how he moves far back after each blocked poke, time your flame kicks accordingly, you will be surprised how flame kicks can reverse most situations!
The last part was taken from parts of my transcript. I wish I had the video set to show you some of these situations but I’m sure you can use your imagination. Most of this is information on how to pressure gief, the counter game I didn’t include.
If there is anything else you want to know about gief/thawk matches ask away, if something was unclear let me know.
I love it when theory fighters hide behind keyboards. I wonder when will they learn.
Thank god midterms are over… now back to Fei Long and ST…
Please talk about the properties/uses/misuses of a) Rekka Ken b) Flame Kick c) Chicken wing, taking each strength of the move into account
Also, since we now have some matchup data on Feis “good” matches, lets move on to his “fair” matches, beginning with Ryu and Ken. Same beginning format as before:
For each matchup, describe in detail:
key strengths/tactics/weaknesses for each character in the match up.
What is Fei’s game plan for each of these match ups?
What are things Fei can do to win/dominate the match?
What are things Fei must watch out for that the other person can do, and how does Fei counter these?
Tell you what, check my profile for my information and reach me on AIM, I’ll gladly have you spectate some of my matches/Give you my transcript for my fei long video.
Fei Long advice
I’ve been out of the active loop for a few years, but I do remember that somebody out there has a crazy Fei Long that I haven’t seen yet. The ID of RekkaKen comes to mind. Anyway, while I may know a few devastating combos with Fei, it’d be real nice to have some crazy tactics that open people up to those combos. Anybody willing to help an OG out? Lemme know!
You should really post this in the Fei Long thread
Obviously, if you want good strats, you should watch match vids on sites like Youtube. Good Japanese Fei players are Noguchi and Yuubou. In the US, Jump Suit Jesse plays Fei, and in the UK, Shin Dragon uses him. Study those and thatll help you out some. Im sure others in the Fei forum would be more than willing to accommodate you and your questions.
Rookie mistake on my part.
I just read through the thread and picked up some very interesting tactics. And yes…I remembered about Jumpsuit Jesse a few days ago. Thanks for the info.
Being a Honda player i can give you one tip vs Honda. Fei is able to cross Honda up very easily without even knocking him down. If you are in a situation where you are close and he decides to turtle a little too much, you can walk forward slightly and jump over his head and cross up with forward, for some reason Hondas J Headbutt will miss. and it sets up 5 hits of death. Jf + StF +Rekka x3. Ive had this done to me many times until i learned not to let Fei get that close.
Ok…from what I remember in practicing the links that ended up on my SSF2 Link FAQ (which tie into the combos listed on David Wright’s TZW Combo FAQ), for Fei Long to get that close to E. Honda, he would have to be well within E. Honda’s attack range. I would think that Honda’s range and Fei’s Flame Kick motion would make your suggestion very unlikely to happen in a match. Plus, if you let Fei Long land that crossup on your Honda, IIRC, he should at least be able to put a crouching jab or maybe even a close standing strong before that close standing fierce and Honda should come out of that dizzy and minus a little more than 50% life. In other words, that’s Fei’s round…and rightly deserved for Honda being asleep.
The only move I could see having a chance of getting Fei in that close would be his “Chicken Wing” kick, but if the turtle-Honda’s on his game, even a surprise one will get head-butted. I can’t see Fei Long winning this unless his short Flame Kicks are hitting Honda every time he sticks out something to keep him out.
What’s the win ratio on that matchup? Is it as lopsided as T. Hawk trying to fight Cammy?
Just play safe vs hawk and gief, no need to rushdown.
C.fierce or c.strong vs lariat since they have lots of range to beat it
yeah, i dunno but i almost never try to AA with fei’s DP against hawk or geif becuase if you miss, you lose. Just use s.short or s.roundhouse as an AA. S.short beats everything though
I know a lot of people like to use the chicken trap vs gief, but i don’t like it because if you mess up, reversal SPD.
Feis best jump in vs gief would have to be j.jab or j.roundhouse because it reaches over the lariat
missed dps, messed up chicken wings, whiffed sweep are all moves they can take advantage of and move fei into the corner