Fighting EX Layer - Discussion


#19

Yesssss I knew it. Looks really really good, they only need to polish the animations.


#20

Looks like it’s play more like Fighting Layer than SFEX with he walled stages and sidesteps.


#21

Characters:
[list]
[] I do like the new aesthetic with Garuda and Kairi, while Hokuto is just fine with or without the bangs.
[
] Arika should have kept the SFEX Kairi’s Tatsumaki, like the many would comment in the video stream.
[*] They should present sometime Skullomania, Nanase, Geist, Blair, Allen and Rosso along with notable Fighting Layer characters sometime.
[/list]

Gameplay mechanics:

[list]
[] Arika should avoid adding custom combo/excel mechanics in the game that some other guys would suggest and recommend in the video stream.
[
] The sidestep was a nice thing but it kinda kill the purpose of projectiles and zoning because it was the common problem with alot of 3d fighters that has a character that is designed to be a 2d fighter but in a 3d plane somewhat like KOFMI, Toshiden(yes) and a lot of 3d fighter with projectile in the past(90s). I’m not against it. It is welcome to me since SF4 dev, but only if it is properly implemented as a gameplay mechanic to be explored for 2d plane fighters. A sidestep mechanic should never like act a dodge mechanic in common 3d plane fighters…

[] The sidestep should have a delay that makes you pause in a vulnerable stance/slow movement pace(very few frames) that can be punished and be also rewarding for successful reads when to sidestep or not to sidestep, something like a wise game mechanic for the right decision that is need to be perform with precision* not just simple guesses and timing without consequences.
[/list]

Stages:

[list]
[] The stages were amazing to be a remixed and inspired from SF2’s Ryu and Cammy.
[
] I like the Cammy like remixed stage that whole plane of the stage is more long rectangle and not to be an equal square or another widespace like those Tekken and DOA, this makes the gameplay of the stage to be unique, kept the zonning dynamic in the plane that every sidestep needs to be strategically work around in every area when trying to move in a different plane, because it’s not just another decision for evasion and reset of situation to another wide open space like those generic 3d fighter.
[]Stages should have a uniformed similar field like many prominent fighters unlike Smash, Injustice, MK and Powerstone. They should make every stages like the Cammy remixed that is a long rectangle field.
[
] Some of the video stream commentators suggesting to add stage transition like those in Tekken and DOA, Which I believe Arika should avoid so that their game won’t be just another wannabe.
[/list]

Arika can standout in the market today by introducing a different brand of sub genre to fighting games, if they avoid trying to be another 3d fighters or another 2d fighters by simply introducing a newer better tech and a different perspective of gameplay exclusive to brand their game, It’s like how Namco managed to reinvent Tekken franchise away from it’s usual and traditional roots of 3d fighter genre in it’s era that they were before (Tekken 1-3).


#22

People should keep in mind this is just a demo to raise interest in the project. They lack the funds to complete it on their own, so they couldn’t present more than those three characters. Hope they do a kickstarter, there’s evidently enough interest on this and they managed to make very well done models and stages, I think it would do very well if they go that way.


#23

Vesper just said that the official name of the game is Fighting EX Layer. Which means the game was purposely built around that game and essentially makes it a spiritual sequel to that game with EX characters.


#24

It really doesn’t have an official name. I was at the event yesterday and the only thing confirmed was that it won’t be SFEX4. ‘Fighting EX Layer’ was said as a joke. ‘Fighting Layer EX’ and other variations including ‘plus’ and ‘alpha’ were mentioned at different points.

Anyway, I don’t think I’ve seen a translation of this uploaded anywhere yet, so…

http://i.imgur.com/8Gk1TOr.jpg


#25

LOL well the unofficial name sounds cheesy enough for now.

It’s got the easy combination chain just like Fighting Layer also. Fighting Layer was the first game to have an auto combo and a burst mechanic. Game was beyond its time.


#26

I hope they give some attacks tracking properties so that they can beat sidesteps.


#27

Yeah ZONINGBOYZ gonna be pissed off about sidesteps if that shit is free.


#28

They have that in mind already. That’s why Kairi’s hurricane kick is the standard type, not what he (and Ryu) had in previous games. It’s for catching sidesteps.


#29

What about the fireballs doe? We must protect the fireballs.


#30

I think fireballs will be risky in this game. There are too many ways to avoid them unless point blank/in a combo. Apart from the sidestepping, the ‘EX arrow’ super jump also arcs right over them. It’s a cool move but probably needs a meter cost or something.


#31

Samurai Shodown IV did burst before with Rage Explosion and World Heroes 2 IIRC had auto combos.


#32

Our lord and saviour Lupinko, who was at the event, has stated that he has no idea where Vesper got that name.


#33

Yoooooooooo Hard Attacks? This game is more Fighting Layer than I suspected in the first place. I love that they mixed in FL stuff with SFEX to make a game that feels Arika proper rather than Arika trying to do Capcom, which is what stopped me from enjoying the EX series. I hope if this project continues in some fashion that they add more Fighting Layer stuff like the running side switch grab. It looks like they added in Fighting Layer auto combos as while running moves? That’s a weird addition but I like it more than what FL did which was just mash LP (or if you were Hong mash any kick button). I do hope it leaves the door open for while running and while backdashing attacks though, those were really cool tools in FL.

I think it’s pretty safe to say that if Arika went to Kickstarter they would get a lot of support, but I really do hope development doesn’t end here for this title. If you had told me that a new SFEX style game was in the works I probably wouldn’t care, but Arika managed to evolve the gameplay in a way that makes me way more interested in it as a title and I would support it as much as I reasonably could. Every time I see footage of this game I really want to play it, everything about it looks so good. I love that the art style looks like you anime’d up Virtua Fighter a bit, all of the fonts and camera angles look so much like VF but the gameplay is straight 2D fighter with sidesteps. The mobility looks so fast and clean, pressure looks strong, and while damage isn’t the highest it looks like you get meter really fast so you can do super combos frequently to make the damage where it should be. Also the castle stage totally reminds me of one of my favorite VF stages

[img]http://i.imgur.com/WDm5A5y.jpg


#34

Actually that’s something Mihara kinda touched upon during the Q&A. When working on the SFEX games, they were limited in how much they could deviate from the base SF formula by their deal/co-development with Capcom (understandable of course). With this potential new title, they intend to enjoy the freedom that comes with independence and will be looking to try various things out, keeping what works and dropping what doesn’t.


#35

I would, they would make a 3D Street Fighter I could care about. They clearly understand how it works more than whoever is in charge of SF now.


#36

Arika already got those nostalgic interesting game mechanics and remarkable characters design from SFEX as there branding to elevate their new IP, The problem is that the characters and game mechanics was mostly designed from the ground up/foundation that is a 2D fighter from specials and supers. That was the common problems of tons of 3D fighters in the late 90’s and early 2k that they just add up some sidestep/sideroll to compromised to the wide square 3D battlefield that has either walls, widespace or ringouts.

Mortal Kombat in the past 2 decade had been a testament to this, that it tried so hard to compromised with the fad of 3D square platform and sidestep evasion that is known by some as modern and a breakthrough in the past era, but despite some individuality and efforts to differ from other 3D games, it never finds it’s way because their characters were designed with a foundation that originate to a 2D designed fighters in a battlefield designed for 3D fighters to harness and exploit.

If Arika stay the same with other 3D fighters treatment towards sidestep and 3D platform the game would more likely fade into obscurity, that’s the fate of many 3D fighters of the past 2 decade that manage to standout only because of their individuality from gameplay mechanics, but not in terms of the playing field. They need to stand out by having a unique treatment towards the 3D plane and sidestep in a consistent way to all the game stages that would justify their brand. The Cammy like remixed stage being not a square battlefield is a nice concepts to be used as a universal standard of their latter stages. Long rectangle platform is better and more innovative than the traditional square platform.

Sidestepping:

I don’t think it’s advisable nowadays for meter gauge to be designed as a cost for those non-offensive/damaging gameplay mechanics, while life gauge depletion shouldn’t be a revisited idea as a cost for a universal gameplay mechanic for a fighting game without a horror theme.

The usual sidestep in 3D fighters is so rewarding that gives additional wide space and have a free dodge without consequences which is not a good for a game that had mostly every character is foundation is based to a 2D game. The best direction is for a sidestep mechanic is to remove it’s “instant evasion” feature. How? by adding a pause and delays (like SF4’s focus and SFEX’s guard break). So it need to be executed with proper timing to initiate successfully with the reward of free dodge and to change a plane, while having consequences of being in a vulnerable state/stance that can be punish if done without precautions and proper distance.

Auto tracking projectile in a squared platform with responsive sidestep kinda makes the game suppress the depth on zoning and subdue of effectivity chances of close range designed characters. This games below may look different and feel different because of unique gameplay mechanics and presentation but the longer you play it the more you depend on it’s characters design that is into blasting and keeping away because of utilizing the advantage of the design from the environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnvQn_AWblw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdT4UnMXuKQ


#37

Sidestepping is perfectly fine if it is punishable as are evasions like rolls, dodges or lineshifts in SNK games.


#38

Fucking finally. This is soo hype.
My only concern is that it feels like one of those arcade Japan-exclusive titles. I hope i’m wrong. This needs a worldwide release on home consoles or at least Steam.
If they can’t afford a worldwide release yet, i hope they do a kickstarter or something. I’d fully support this.