Fighting EX Layer - Discussion


#25

LOL well the unofficial name sounds cheesy enough for now.

It’s got the easy combination chain just like Fighting Layer also. Fighting Layer was the first game to have an auto combo and a burst mechanic. Game was beyond its time.


#26

I hope they give some attacks tracking properties so that they can beat sidesteps.


#27

Yeah ZONINGBOYZ gonna be pissed off about sidesteps if that shit is free.


#28

They have that in mind already. That’s why Kairi’s hurricane kick is the standard type, not what he (and Ryu) had in previous games. It’s for catching sidesteps.


#29

What about the fireballs doe? We must protect the fireballs.


#30

I think fireballs will be risky in this game. There are too many ways to avoid them unless point blank/in a combo. Apart from the sidestepping, the ‘EX arrow’ super jump also arcs right over them. It’s a cool move but probably needs a meter cost or something.


#31

Samurai Shodown IV did burst before with Rage Explosion and World Heroes 2 IIRC had auto combos.


#32

Our lord and saviour Lupinko, who was at the event, has stated that he has no idea where Vesper got that name.


#33

Yoooooooooo Hard Attacks? This game is more Fighting Layer than I suspected in the first place. I love that they mixed in FL stuff with SFEX to make a game that feels Arika proper rather than Arika trying to do Capcom, which is what stopped me from enjoying the EX series. I hope if this project continues in some fashion that they add more Fighting Layer stuff like the running side switch grab. It looks like they added in Fighting Layer auto combos as while running moves? That’s a weird addition but I like it more than what FL did which was just mash LP (or if you were Hong mash any kick button). I do hope it leaves the door open for while running and while backdashing attacks though, those were really cool tools in FL.

I think it’s pretty safe to say that if Arika went to Kickstarter they would get a lot of support, but I really do hope development doesn’t end here for this title. If you had told me that a new SFEX style game was in the works I probably wouldn’t care, but Arika managed to evolve the gameplay in a way that makes me way more interested in it as a title and I would support it as much as I reasonably could. Every time I see footage of this game I really want to play it, everything about it looks so good. I love that the art style looks like you anime’d up Virtua Fighter a bit, all of the fonts and camera angles look so much like VF but the gameplay is straight 2D fighter with sidesteps. The mobility looks so fast and clean, pressure looks strong, and while damage isn’t the highest it looks like you get meter really fast so you can do super combos frequently to make the damage where it should be. Also the castle stage totally reminds me of one of my favorite VF stages

[img]http://i.imgur.com/WDm5A5y.jpg


#34

Actually that’s something Mihara kinda touched upon during the Q&A. When working on the SFEX games, they were limited in how much they could deviate from the base SF formula by their deal/co-development with Capcom (understandable of course). With this potential new title, they intend to enjoy the freedom that comes with independence and will be looking to try various things out, keeping what works and dropping what doesn’t.


#35

I would, they would make a 3D Street Fighter I could care about. They clearly understand how it works more than whoever is in charge of SF now.


#36

Arika already got those nostalgic interesting game mechanics and remarkable characters design from SFEX as there branding to elevate their new IP, The problem is that the characters and game mechanics was mostly designed from the ground up/foundation that is a 2D fighter from specials and supers. That was the common problems of tons of 3D fighters in the late 90’s and early 2k that they just add up some sidestep/sideroll to compromised to the wide square 3D battlefield that has either walls, widespace or ringouts.

Mortal Kombat in the past 2 decade had been a testament to this, that it tried so hard to compromised with the fad of 3D square platform and sidestep evasion that is known by some as modern and a breakthrough in the past era, but despite some individuality and efforts to differ from other 3D games, it never finds it’s way because their characters were designed with a foundation that originate to a 2D designed fighters in a battlefield designed for 3D fighters to harness and exploit.

If Arika stay the same with other 3D fighters treatment towards sidestep and 3D platform the game would more likely fade into obscurity, that’s the fate of many 3D fighters of the past 2 decade that manage to standout only because of their individuality from gameplay mechanics, but not in terms of the playing field. They need to stand out by having a unique treatment towards the 3D plane and sidestep in a consistent way to all the game stages that would justify their brand. The Cammy like remixed stage being not a square battlefield is a nice concepts to be used as a universal standard of their latter stages. Long rectangle platform is better and more innovative than the traditional square platform.

Sidestepping:

I don’t think it’s advisable nowadays for meter gauge to be designed as a cost for those non-offensive/damaging gameplay mechanics, while life gauge depletion shouldn’t be a revisited idea as a cost for a universal gameplay mechanic for a fighting game without a horror theme.

The usual sidestep in 3D fighters is so rewarding that gives additional wide space and have a free dodge without consequences which is not a good for a game that had mostly every character is foundation is based to a 2D game. The best direction is for a sidestep mechanic is to remove it’s “instant evasion” feature. How? by adding a pause and delays (like SF4’s focus and SFEX’s guard break). So it need to be executed with proper timing to initiate successfully with the reward of free dodge and to change a plane, while having consequences of being in a vulnerable state/stance that can be punish if done without precautions and proper distance.

Auto tracking projectile in a squared platform with responsive sidestep kinda makes the game suppress the depth on zoning and subdue of effectivity chances of close range designed characters. This games below may look different and feel different because of unique gameplay mechanics and presentation but the longer you play it the more you depend on it’s characters design that is into blasting and keeping away because of utilizing the advantage of the design from the environment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnvQn_AWblw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdT4UnMXuKQ


#37

Sidestepping is perfectly fine if it is punishable as are evasions like rolls, dodges or lineshifts in SNK games.


#38

Fucking finally. This is soo hype.
My only concern is that it feels like one of those arcade Japan-exclusive titles. I hope i’m wrong. This needs a worldwide release on home consoles or at least Steam.
If they can’t afford a worldwide release yet, i hope they do a kickstarter or something. I’d fully support this.


#39

How I see it, fireballs might be regulated to be “un-counter pokable” pokes that could be side stepped. Consider your best, furthest ranged poke for a character. It still could be hit upon start up or during recovery; while a fireball could only really be poked on start up. Consider that some normal pokes could have about the same recovery as a fireball, so fireballs in a way could be considered an extension of poking without risking the whiff punish like other normals would have. So I think having sidestep works in the convention of 3D fighting games if fireballs are perceived as such.

Then there’s the idea that in games like VF that you can punish sidesteps during any period of their duration with throws or circular attacks. So you can bait people with fireball pokes and feints then just go for the circular or throw to punish their side step outside of poke range. So I think what sidestepping will do is dissuade full screen zoning, but not eliminate the use of fireball from mid/close range. So it’ll make casuals happy while keeping dynamics of mid to close range footsies diverse for dedicated competitors.

Also, we’re not considering that they could make particular projectiles also circular to tag side steps. If I recall in Jojo’s All Star Battle, there were projectiles that you needed to side step twice just to get around them. That concept could be applied as well. They could put in tracking projectiles if they want as well.


#40

The slow sidestep from VF is an okay mechanic for it game that is mostly into close combat and with less moves that blows an opponent away, I like its slow walking into a different side but it should be more vulnerable and less responsive(delay) rather than the usual. Arika should recreate their own sidestep rather than reusing the traditional sidestep mechanic prominent to the many 3D fighter ever known and failed.

Arika can add something inspired by Garou’s Just Defend but for sidestepping (ex: Just Sidestep) that if successfully executed the sidestep command at the very last moments(ex: like 5 frames), the player with precision is rewarded of a successful change of plane in more faster transition. So that the sidestep cannot be used without proper timing while it would also compromised and reward those players that reads successfully.

I’m not familiar with the new JoJo, yet interesting stuff to know and seems a plausible idea to bring in.

I don’t think tracking idea would be good or solve everything, It would be another one of those quick fix that other FG done in the past, Yes it solve the problem of projectile disfunctionality for some characters that utilize those, but it brings a whole new level of different problem to other characters that are designed for close range combat that is also originated from a 2D fighter character like KOFMI, FF:Wild Ambition, FF:Revenge and etc.


#41

Uh, Jojo’s ASB already has what you described. It both has traditional side step and a Just Defend side step, but I don’t know the frame advantage for it (but it’s generally better than manual side step.) You should check that game out.


#42

I mean, cool I guess, but my point was that I personally myself individually didn’t like SFEX because it felt like SF was shoehorned into 3D in a way that wasn’t fun, where as Arika doing their own stuff and having all the freedom in the world to experiment and do what they want to do is much better. I’ve always preferred Fighting Layer to SFEX because Fighting Layer feels like it was making good use of being a 3D game, where as SFEX felt like 3D was a gimmick that didn’t serve the gameplay of the game.


#43

Just reading stuff from Gamefaqs, Agree it’s better than traditional sidestep from a 3d fighter. it’s like a Just Defend that is also activated on blocking then reward you a dodge? yet it’s too rewarding for a properly timed blocking, plus it has no consequences that is no involve meter stuff because it puts you in a blocking state(comfort zone) if failed on timing? Which was different on what i was thinking(just sidestep) that involve no blocking and all about sidestep from activation to succession that is punishable if failed on anticipation, plus no meter cost other than caution and precision on usability like SF3’s parry. Yet interesting stuff to know.


#44

As a guy who never played SFEX, this new uh Fighting EX Layer/EX4/Whatever looks pretty damn cool. I like this Garuda dude. I hope Arika finds a funder because I gotta be the best Garuda NA.