Fighting Games on DLP TVS = Delay?

I dont know if it affects other games on a DLP TV or HDTV

But I went to my friends house to play mvc2 on his new big screen DLP TV an you can notice a delay I couldnt even do a regular air combo

anyone else notices this on DLP TVs?

That’s a problem with most of the new age TVs from what I’ve been seeing. I’ve been doing a little research myself since I’m planning on purchasing a big screen soon. Check out the Tech Talk forum here, or look for my Big TV thread(both there and in GD) for a little insight since ATM there are limited options for gamers.

Wouldn’t this suck for all games though?

I know fighter are very much hurt by lag, but I can see any other precise game being hurt by this too right?

That’s right. I’m at a loss for why Sony TVs haven’t dealt with this problem considering how much stock they put into the PS2.

i think you just need special cables so there won’t be any delay

It’s a little more than that. It has to do with the natural refresh rate of your display, as well as its native resolution. Check through the threads I mentioned for more info on it.

And I believe you’re talking about a VGA box. If the display you have can’t handle PC Monitor resolutions, then you’re fucked.

i have a samsung 61’ dlp and yes i noticed the delay…its pretty bad actually…probably 4-6 frames…but i just got a xbox 360 the other day…which can go to 720p (what the tv was made for) and so far i havnt noticed the delay that i did before…atleast not as much if there still is one…i really cant tell yet because doa feels slow to me anyways lol

The easiest way to see if a TV has lag is to plug DDR (or any other music game) into it. It’ll be super obvious.

I have tried DDR on my TV and so far I have had zero lag. I’ve used PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360, Snes, Dreamcast and never had an issue with lag. Mind you this is not a DLP, but yes DLP’s have been know to lag a bit. And yes it does depend on the Mhz of the DLP. When you use HD cables (rd/blue/green) delays become a little less noticeable, but with component and composite you will notice it.

There is a stickied discussion on DLP video game lag in Tech Talk made by fubarduck. He gave the problem and a few solutions for it.

for those who do not feel like clicking, here is the gist:

1.) Many of the games you are playing are either 480i or 480p. Many HDTVs with a native resolution of 720p/1080i have to upconvert the 480i/p signal into the native resolution, causing the delay.

2.) DLP tvs happen to be the worst in terms of delay.

3.) some TVs have a “Game Mode” which bypass the upconversion

dlp tvs have a bad refresh rate so they lag

lcd/plasma tvs all have 16ms (or more) delay on a change from grey to grey causing a delay.

The only delay free tv/monitor is CRT. This is way all competitive FPS players on PC’s use CRT monitors.

There is a difference between lag and “ghosting”, which is what you’re describing. I suggest reading my FAQ before pretending to know what you’re talking about:

I’m not talking about ghosting, I’m talking about lag.

Ghosting is a completely seperate issue that is not longer a problem. However it still takes time for their screen to change which is why they have LAG.

On professional grade lcd/plasmas this is given a vlue you in ms, ranging from 2ms (at lower resolution on a few models), all the way up to 22ms, 16 being the standard.

Any TV you have, is probably 16ms or greater as they favor higher resolutions.

Then why don’t DLP’s lag when running material in the DLP’s native resolution? Does the refresh rate magically rise?

Thanks a lot, I’m looking forward to your answer since you know so much!!!

Actually, my friend has a 60’ Sony Grand Vega LCD and it has no lag.

They do lag, the technology has a delay in it. The lag caused by resolution changes is on
top of that. So you are removing some of it, a large majority yes but there still is some there.

Then your eyes aren’t able to detect it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. All LCD’s have a delay between 2-22ms… the only ones that are 12 and under are various ones used only for computer monitors and rather small. Now maybe you’re not able to detect 16-22ms lag on a TV, and there is nothing wrong with that most people can’t. The only time it’s evident is when playing very fast percision games, namely FPS games where a fraction of a second will mean you don’t hit.

There is no way to get around lag in LCD screens it takes time for the crystals to change from grey to grey, and there is your lag. Granted it means nothing if you are watching TV/movies but you can tell in certain games it’s there.

The only current displays that do not lag, are CRT’s. That doesn’t make them better.

I have an LCD TV as well, and it’s just fine for movies, and some games. However I wouldn’t put an FPS on there at all because I can sense 16ms lag, and it drives me nuts.

Think of it this way. If you play a game online at 0ms ping it’s perfect, if you play at 22ms ping the game still looks fine (no stutters sound on time) but there is a delay there that you can feel. It’s an analogy but that’s what goes on with LCD tvs/monitors.

You’re probably right in saying my eyes don’t catch it, but I haven’t had any problems playing fighting games on them. I parry in 3s and in CvS2 on the LCD just as well as on a CRT. CvS2 has more critical timing with its parry and its RC’s, and I can do both fine.

I guess what I am saying is that the lag is so minimal that it doesn’t affect gameplay. Maybe it affects FPS games, but I couldn’t comment on that since I don’t play them, nor can I stomach them (I get motion sickness).

Well the thing is FPS games are more lag sensitive then any other game out there.

In a high speed FPS (ie quake or UT) that 2-22ms is long enough that you can have your crosshair on the other guy, fire off an instant hit weapon, and still have it deal no damage because he actually is a tad off from where it is.

I can play fighters just fine on an LCD as well, things happen slower and there aren’t situations which require that level of hand eye coordination and pinpoint accuracy. But coming from being a competitive quake player from close to 10 years, I can easily feel the lag, even though my crosshair was dead on the guy when I railed him.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that it’s blatantly obvious in an FPS when you fire dead on the guy, or you take damage before the shot fires. Granted even 22ms is very fast, but it’s long enough to trigger “what the fuck was that” moments.

Er, I don’t. Though I do use a very low 2ms lcd montior from viewsonic. I’ve made that jump awhile ago and haven’t looked back. My CSS / UT2004 / COD2 game hasn’t skipped a beat.:tup: