Finishing what SK Started - Assembling the AE 2012 Rose Matchup Thread

rose

#1

LAST UPDATED: December 11th, 2011
[LIST]
[]Added a section on “option selects” and “videos” to matchup analysis template
[
]Added notes on Juri matchup
[/LIST]
By now it’s no secret that the Rose community and the Street Fighter community as a whole has lost a valuable member. I’m no good at giving a proper eulogy nor do I intend to in this thread. I didn’t know Joshua Colon in person so i will leave that task to someone who does.

What little I do know of him from my rather limited time on this forum, though, was that he was a Rose player dedicated to leveling up the community. From what I gather from others, Joshua always went out of his way to give advice to fellow Rose players. Now that he’s gone, we are left with his memory, that spirit of empathy and community and a personal emotional void.

Then there’s the Rose matchup thread. Unfortunately it wasn’t completed for whatever reasons and now unfortunately never will be. I think we should change that. Perhaps I’m just speaking for myself but this is the only way I know how to deal with tragedy. Remember what the people that have passed away lived for and to carry on my own life with that in mind. I don’t know about everyone else but I intend on putting a new matchup thread to remember what SK did for the Rose and Street Fighter community and to continue what he did, helping people level up at a game and character that they may be frustrated with, but ultimately love. That’s how I’m going to deal with this loss.

So who’s with me?

Matchup Analysis Template

[details=Spoiler]
“Character Name” Matchup

*Matchup Figure: *

General Strategy

Picking Ultras

The Far-Range/Fireball Game

The Midrange/Footsies Game

Anti-Air

Punishing

Handling Pressure

Applying Pressure

Option Selects

Videos

Concluding Tips [/details]

Matchups that still require writeups

Spoiler

[LIST]
[]Abel
[
]Akuma
[]Blanka
[
]C. Viper
[]Cammy
[
]Chun-Li
[]Dan
[
]Dudley
[]E. Honda
[
]E. Ryu
[]El Fuerte
[
]Gen
[]Gouken
[
]Guy
[]Hakan
[
][S]Juri[/S]
[]Ibuki
[
]Ken
[]Oni
[
][S]Sagat[/S]
[]Sakura
[
]Vega
[/LIST]


#2

Rose players moving forward and moving on and getting better.

This is what Josh would have wanted, being as humble and willing as he is.

We just need some Rose MAIN - meaning no true subs, just Rose (that isn’t me) that would start up and keep the thread active.


#3

I’m hungry enough to start it up and anally-retentive enough to keep it organized. Up to everyone in the Rose community to keep the thread alive, which I am optimistic we will.


#4

indeed. I will do what I can to add stuff to should be useful


#5

I am able to add stuff and contribute when i can as well.


#6

I don’t post on the Rose forums very often, but I will be contributing to this match up thread from here on out.


#7

Meh, im ass, but i can try to help :confused:


#8

this


#9

Glad to see the support. So here’s the matchup template I proposed a while ago.

Matchup Analysis Template

[details=Spoiler]
“Character Name” Matchup

*Matchup Figure: *

General Strategy

Picking Ultras

The Far-Range/Fireball Game

The Midrange/Footsies Game

Anti-Air

Punishing

Handling Pressure

Applying Pressure

Concluding Tips [/details]

Thoughts and opinions everyone? Anything we need or don’t? Not sure what purpose a certain section serves?

Shoot.


#10

I like it.

The only thing I can think of adding may be an example video of the match being played properly with some text commentary, though that may be a bit successive.

I’ll also give my input on whatever matchups I’m able to.


#11

This is a good idea. Nothing excessive about trying to do the best possible job we can. I’ve actually already organized a bunch of the Rose match vids I’ve saved according to matchups but I’ll see how I can include them in to the written analysis as evidence of certain points. If that’s hard to execute, I’ll just list them and the viewer can make their own judgments.


#12

Wow, why did I say “successive” instead of “excessive”. I need sleep.

But yeah, I would like that. I remember a post along those lines with a Japanese Rose playing against a Ryu and it really helped me with the matchup.


#13

There are somethings i see in other write ups for Match-up threads. Maybe we can add a thing for u2 mix ups on each character like.

1.no
2.yes
3. no (Usually they tell which set up is safe to use or not.)


#14

I like that idea. Due to how many factors there are to consider for U2 mixups though (off what type of knockdown, what version of ST, what reversals beat it, etc.) , that idea might warrant a thread of its own however.

Anyone else with a console and the dedication to test viable U2 mixups against the entire cast?
We can at least start with transcribing video Una77 posted. Does anyone want to do that?


#15

I can do that this week and go to the lab. Sometime after Dec 15th… maybe the 17th i’ll be taking a break and will be coming back in late feb.

I need to see when the orbs are registered as being on the other side of the opponent for an unblockable.


#16

No need to rush any of this if it’s a burden on your personal lives. More important we do a good job than a hasty one. I’m probably not going to be able to start organizing the information until the 4th week of December or so when I’m on winter break.

So now onto the matchups that haven’t been covered at all.

Matchups that still require writeups

Spoiler

[LIST]
[]Abel
[
]Akuma
[]Blanka
[
]C. Viper
[]Cammy
[
]Chun-Li
[]Dan
[
]Dudley
[]E. Honda
[
]E. Ryu
[]El Fuerte
[
]Gen
[]Gouken
[
]Guy
[]Hakan
[
]Juri
[]Ibuki
[
]Ken
[]Oni
[
]Sagat
[]Sakura
[
]Vega
[/LIST]

So as you guys can see, there’s still a good chunk of work that needs to be done. So who wants to cover what?


#17

I can can cover Sagat,Chun-li, and Cody.


#18

Here is the sagat match up.

[details=Spoiler]I’d like a little more help with this write up for any extra tips for this match up. Thank you.

Sagat

Pros

  • Strong zoning game
  • More health/stun
  • Strong comeback potential
  • Solid okizeme
  • TU helps him deal with pressure/wake-up game
  • Great footsies
  • Very strong pressure game

Cons

  • Hitbox can be abused with orbs if you use the orbs correctly
  • Shots can be easily dealt with if used too much or stupidly

Rose

Pros

  • Decent footsies
  • Decent pressure game
  • Good answers to projectile spam
    +Quick punishes

Cons

  • Low health/stun
  • Terrible wake-up options
  • Vulnerable to good rushdown
  • Looses in footsie wars
  • Nearly hopeless when put into the corner.
  • Poor comboablitity and low damage

Long Range
At this range Sagat has a great advantage. You only have a few options to deal with sagats tiger shots. From Full screen you should almost always use lp reflect to absorb fireballs so you almost always have enough ex meter to delay his momentum and to use it to help you get in. Along with using lp reflect you need to use mp reflect so you can
be able to move forward a little at a time. What i mean about using mp reflect is to use them scarcly because if you use them too much a smart sagat player with throw out an ex tiger shot and you will get hit by it. All that will do is send you flying towards the corner where you do not want to be. Reflecting isn’t the only thing you should be doing. You should be sliding under tiger shots while being prepared to block a second tiger shot or tiger knee and focusing his fireballs for meter.
While you are in this range your main focus is to build meter and move towards sagat slowly. One more thing… Learn to use Ex reflect in this match because it will make sagat think twice before throwing out ex tiger shots.

I recommend that you play rose ball to work on your reflection reaction skills. Rose ball will help a lot vs others with fireballs.

Mid-range

(What type of normals you need to be using):At this range both Sagat and Rose can give a good fight but remember sagat has the better footsies. cr.mp loses to his cr.lp and the fake cr.mp into spiral block string can be rendered nearly useless since he can just use his st.mk to stuff your soul spiral out. The main normals that you need to be using are your st.mk and st.hk to hit him when he is using low normals.
You should be fishing for limbs to get a cr.mp into mp soul spiral or ex but don’t get to reckless with them unless you want to be sent flying by a tiger shot.

(What to be aware of):You need to be aware of cr.lpx2 into cr.mk or cr.lk into TK pressure, from there he can either throw you or TU you.
Also be aware of Sagat jumping in. Sometimes they like to jump at you to catch you off gaurd since they rarely jump in. Be ready to anti air with cr.hp.
(What punishing combo is recommended):
I recommend ex soul spiral because you will want to get as much damage as you need you should already have atleast 2 bars in this match to be able to use ex unless you’re just throwing ex fireballs without a reason.

(Other notices):
Take advantage on any and every mistake he makes.

Pressure/wake-up

(What you can do on his wake up.) If you get a knock down on Sagat you can do a tick throw, activate u2 sit and wait for the orbs to align so you can throw him, do the soul throw set up with u2 or sit and wait for him to make a mistake.

(On your wake up.): Sagat can start up tiger knee pressure, tick throw you, or push you away with ex tiger shots, which is what he want to do to push you away. You do not have many option in this situations, if you back dash you can get tiger kneed to the face, tiger uppercutted to the face or tiger shot to the face and sweeped.
I recommend that you BLOCK on your wake up unless you want to eat big damage.

Corner
(What sagat can do to you.): What i can say is that you can’t do much of anything in this situation. What he will do is start using his tiger knee pressure on you while looking to tick throw you. Your job is to BLOCK and wait for an opponening but do not throw out soul spirals all willy nilly or you can try and throw him back into the corner. Why i am telling you to sit and block is because you can’t throw many of your lows at him because his st.mk beats pretty much all of our low attacks. I suggest you throw out some st.mk’s or st.hk sparingly.

(What you can do against sagat in the corner.): When you have sagat in the corner you can start your cr.mp into spiral mix ups or u2 mix ups on him. I suggest you use cr.mp into spiral rarely too because if you are playing a smart sagat, he will use his st.mk to stuff your spiral and push you away. Now when you get u2 i recommend you activate it and wait a little bit AND WHEN EVER HE GETS HIT by and orb for trying to push you away immidiately use cr.mp into spiral or soul spark to punish him.

Overview
This match up may seem like it is in Rose’s favor at a quick glimpse but it is not. Your main focus is to start off gaining meter by absoring fireballs, followed by reflect and focus attacks to move in slowly and being very cautious during footsie battles.
If you act crazy trying to jump over tiger shots and you want to get in quickly… you will lose this match and i suggest you use another character to deal with this match.

[/details]

Next is Cody and then Chun-li


#19

I’ve already done a write-up on the Cody matchup but we can compare and contrast notes if you’re already close to finishing it.


#20

I didn’t even start on cody but we can read each others match ups for anything we both can add to each match up. I’m going to add the videos i have from playing Emblemlord. They have great examples of what you should do against sagat. I can write the match up for chun-li.