Fireball spacing and speed


#1

I was wondering if someone can please explain (or point me in the direction of a guide) what distances are okay to throw fireballs and why you might pick one speed over another. I feel like a lot of depth is going over my head. Or maybe over thinking it? I’m using Ryu. Thank you!


#2

I believe there is a thread addressing this on the character specific Ryu forum, you should check it out :smiley:


#3

Thank you, I saw that but i have no idea what any of it means and, despite its stickyness, it wasn’t very well recieved. I was hoping someone could tell me in more newbie friendly terms.


#4

I’m not exactly sure either ^^; the PRI graphs make the most sense to me.

I think the rule of thumb is to just not spam them… Some of it is reaction-based methinks to stuff moves the dash in but don’t dodge projectiles, and I think its much better used with cr. mk … Throw a light fireball if you’re not sure he’ll be able to jump in… I find the light fb gives ample time to reaction DP a jump in. And know your match up and don’t throw them when your opponent has an ultra that can punish it on reaction…

Don’t take my word for it though, I’m still a scrub.


#5

from one noob to another, I’ve picked up that there is a danger zone, where in if you throw a fireball they can react and get a jump attack in while you’re in recovery frames still. But that will be very character dependant regarding jump speeds etc. Like you guys I can’t make head nor tail of the sticky on the Ryu forums =/


#6

If anything vary the speeds to confuse them a bit. Screws up their rhythms of neutral jumping/forward jumping. Throwing a light fireball on a hard knockdown will actually hit them unless they block on wake up (medium and heavy will whiff before they get up).

I’ve had occasions where I’ve hit opponents jumping in with a fireball (while they were outside of DP range). Though that’s probably not something you’d want to rely on…


#7

Another major factor is how good the opponent precieves you to be. If they think you are a noob or scrubby theywill show you no respect. Fireball spacing is a great tool, but basic zoning and punishing must be used. Also dont make it predictable or you will get punished bad.


#8

up close fast fireballs are harder to react to farther away slower fireballs require a later jump than fast fireballs so you can AA/move easier.

Most importantly condition you opponent. when you are in the “Danger zone” as the above poster says its hard to throw safe fireballs but with enough wiffed empty crouches-fireball motions, whiffed st lk/st lp/cr lp, you will make your opponent hesitate to twitch jump on your fireball motions if and only if you can show them you can anti air.

It takes practice. Dont try to copy pros as they not only condition their opponents but have opponents that respect their anti airs and ability to fake fireballs. They have experience vs their opponensts + years of experience

you need to read your opponent and this is why copy-the-pro-players have problems vs “random players”

In short, throw safe fireballs [far enought to AA] and fake alot of fireballs [in the danger zone]. When you think you have respect from you opponent then open up with more fireballs [in the danger zone]. The tone it back as the may start jumping once you throw them more in the “danger zone”…

and then the mindgames begin.

Edit: and in terms of what range. It depends on the char and their meter as well as their ability to react: you just gotta practice.


#9

Fire ball spacing, ryu, ok

First, randomizing fireballs
You can’t react to a fireball and jump in, you will get dp. You have to react to the prefireball stuff like the crouch or the sudden movement at certain distances. This is why you have to do some thing other than a fire ball at those times, to bait the jump in. You can crouch and wait for the jump, you can crouch and go back to neutral to fake pumping a fireball, you can fireball with light kick and you can tatsu motion with a light or medium punch. All these will either force a reaction or your opponent is not scared of your fireballs and you should be putting them down his throat.

Important rule, the only safe from jump ins vs second fire balls are, after a meaty fireball on wake up or after a fireball that pushes your opponent out of jump in distance. Unless its an ex, your opponent can always just hold up forward on hit or block and punish a second fireball.

If they can’t jump in and hit you, slow fire ball lets you move toward them a little and if they jump towards you, there is a good chance you can dp them. Fast fireball is for fireball wars. If someone is going to win, on the fireball the winner would normally hit; it is his choice to either change the speed (medium to catch a jump and slow to walk forward) or keep the same speed to hit an unyielding opponent.

In the next situation, you must make sure you are not firing predictable fireballs.
When they can jump in on your recovery and hit you, but the fire ball must have some distance to travel there are two situations to consider. 1. If they focus your fireballs, shoot a slow one so that they get stuck in focus waiting for the fire ball and you can recover in time to punish a dash forward. 2. If they jump your fire balls you have to fire fast ones so that you give them less time to decide to jump. You get one of two bonuses, you get to either hit them on the way up or any indecision on their part forces them to block.

If they are out of reach of your normals, but when you throw a fireball it doesn’t travel it immediately hits you have to mix up whether you are throwing a fake out, ex or regular fireball. Fakes bait jump ins, EX breaks focus (and armor attacks) and regular fire balls beat the ground game…

Fireball wars

Rule of thumb: Fastest fireball pretty much always

Goal: reach an advantageous position (usually cornering your opponent), do some damage, stall for lame victory, force opponent to waste meter, force opponent to come in on you and or stopping opponent from building meter faster than you.

As fireballs get closer to opponent, you can fire an ex for damage if you know they are committed. There will be a fireball that your opponent cannot match if they are losing the fireball battle, that is the fire ball you mix up with, but not with ex. If you are losing a fireball war, you can use an ex to reset the collision distance or two to attempt damage (wasting meter is bad, you may want to opt to go in instead). If you have to neutral jump a fire ball, you need to recognize or predict the speed of the fireball and jump early so that you can land and put out a fireball while the opponent cannot because they still have one on the screen. Fireball hit boxes are very slim so you can essentially land in the fireball unharmed, you’ll have to go to training mode to see what I mean…

Using medium fireball
Anytime you are not using a certain speed of a fire ball for a specific purpose, use medium. Reasons to just fireball, if your opponent neutral or back jumps. If your opponent is building meter far away. If your opponent jumps towards you but won’t reach you. Randomly for the hell of it.

Fireball mixups
You generally don’t want to mix up by going from fast to slow or vice versa (there are some instances like though). You just want to randomly change the designated speed to medium to keep your opponent no his toes.

Good luck, those are the basics of fireballing…


#10

The best fireball game is a great anti-air game. The moment your opponent is afraid to jump then the fireball becomes a powerful tool. You need to strike that fear into them. So basically what I do is only do safe fireballs and try to get a feel for their jump habits. If they jump a lot then I’ll throw less fireballs or only safe ones. Anti-air someone 2-4 times in a row and they tend to get the point then I go for the more risky fireballs that are only punishable if 100% guessed as I know they aren’t going to want to jump except on reaction at that point. If i recognize the person isn’t jump happy i’ll do a lot more of the guess only ones.

Another key thing about having a good game is NOT fireballing. If you have a good lead and they have ultra or enough meter to blow you up with a guess … just don’t do it. There is no reason to do any type of risky fireball in those situations. Don’t give them free damage. Do a lot of fakes instead and try to bait stuff. Try to make when you fireball a bit unpredictable and check to make sure you aren’t doing some type of pattern that they can read.

There are quite a few character specifics but that’s fireballing 101 in my mind.