Footies, mental or all together? help please


#1

ive been playing ssf4 for a while now and i got the basic of things; however, there are a few things that i do not understand and seemingly, always, struggling against. if anyone can help it would be great.

first- footies and spacing.

i understand the point of footies is to get your opponent to whiff a move and then punish accordingly, and footies will eventually set up mental games later on. my problem is that i do not understand how to determine if im in the right position? how do i know if I’m in the right distance? say for example, I’m playing as ryu, i do a block string, cr. lk, cr. lk, step back then solar plexus to catch those mashing tech, but if the opponent where to throw out a random sweep, how do i defend against the sweep while taking advantage if they were to mash crouch tech?

how do i know if im playing in the right distance when playing footies?

what should i be reading at all times?

how do i know if im playing a character properly? what are the processing of identifying?

if i do a late jump in attack, whats the difference when it whiffs? does it cancel the recovery time? (like if i do a jump forward hard kick with ryu, if i do it right before he hands, then the active frames of attack goes straight into landing recovery frames right and therefore canceling the recovering frames of the attack itself.)

second, crouch teching,

i believe crouch teching allows 7 frames of throw teching if being thrown and standing allows 9 frames. but i always get thrown. am i suppose to tech after my opponent press throw or before? because i get thrown either way.

3rd how to deal with wake up uppercuts and throw mixup.

how do i deal with them? it seems that i cannot seem to apply pressure without my opponent just dping or throwing me all the time…
do i delay tech? and how do i do it?


#2

Well, for spacing… use the training stage. Those blocks in the backgrounds are good measurements. Once you have them memorized you can visualize super impose the squares over the other stage so you can “see” your space.

For the recovery question on whiffs and what not. Go into training mode and record your opponent doing something then try to jump in on him or whiff and see what changes.

For the wake up SRK, look up safe jumps to “bait” that SRK then when they whiff you can punish it.

Hope this helps.


#3

thank you. ive been trying and doing exactly what you advised as i read on the forums, but i dont know if im doing it right… let say for example, im ryu vs ken. ken keeps pressuring me with his f-mk, and i walk out of the distance and attempt to throw a fb. instead of a fb, he gets a counter hit sweep on me… i feel that i successful dodge one poke only to fall for another one.


#4

I don’t play SF4. But I feel the things you’re asking are applicable to almost any game. Also, I feel a counter poke would be better than throwing a fb. A fireball in most games have a slow startup that can get beat by a poke in range. After you walk out of range of a whiffed poke Try using a fast low attack. it should hit the other person out of their recovery frames or the startup frames of their sweep.

As for wakeup. When you’re applying pressure, when are you going for those throws? and what do you do when you don’t go for the throw? just sit there?

If you’re going for the throw at the end of your block string, your opponent can see that coming a mile away. they should be able to dp you everytime or throw you every time. Do it during different sections of your block string before you get pushed too far out. That way they don’t have time to react to what you’re doing. when you stop your block string you can either:

Go for a throw
Go for a frame trap
Delayed DP (to counter their DP)/throw tech (very risky, but messes with their head if you guess right)
sit and block/throw tech.


#5

thank you very much. im not sure on how to apply proper pressure when they are getting up…

also, what i don’t understand is this, if i anti air an opponent about 2 times in a row, why do they continue to jump?


#6

This question seems to sum up a good deal of your issues.
There are two types of people who still jump

  1. people who don’t know how to get in on their opponent without jumping.
  2. People who are smart enough to realize that you don’t expect them to jump again after two anti airs based on your habits.

The thing is those two players don’t play alike and if you can’t tell which on you are up against, you going to have problem winning.

Read the situation and react accordingly, expect adjustments from your opponent and AND DON’T EXPECT THAT THEY WILL REACT THE SAME WAY THAT YOU IN A SITUATION.


#7

You have the right idea, but stepping back and doing F+HP isn’t very effective. Your opponent has several options in this situation:

  • backdash
  • block
  • mash crouch tech
  • DP
  • mash a fast poke (i.e. sweep)
  • at least 9 other things that would seem random but would beat F+HP (i.e. mashed ultra, neutral jump, some invincible EX move, etc)

Out of all these scenarios, the action you’ve taken only beats one. On top of that, F+HP is rather slow and it’s entirely possible that your opponent may react to it.

Not to say it’s never the right idea (after all it leads to a huge payoff if it works), but with all the options widely available to your opponent, you’d have to at least read that they are the sort of person who crouch techs more often than anything else, or condition them to do so.

A DP is fast, beats out a lot of those options, but is unsafe itself if your opponent has a read on you and is expecting you to do it (or if they just have the tendency to block)

That’s really what footsies come down to. Do you know what your opponent is thinking? Does he know what you’re thinking? Is there a noticeable pattern to how he plays? Can you predict or react to his actions?


#8

It’s an art, not a science. Try this:

The first time you knock down a NEW opponent (if it’s someone you’ve played before, try to remember what they like to do), just walk up right next to them and then…block. If your opponent mashes anything, you’ll block it (okay, fine, if they actually decide to wake up throw, you’ll need to tech it or take the damage.) and you’ll either get to punish a reversal, or just be pushed back by whatever. And if they backdash, well, no harm done, and now you know they’re willing to use that option. And now you’ve learned something. If they threw a reversal last time, maybe block the next time too, until it sinks in that maybe they shouldn’t do that all the time. Or if you think it’s a player who already knows that (note: never ASSUME this about a random netplay opponent) then maybe it’s time to throw a meaty attack. Or walk up and throw.

On a “fresh” opponent, you can either start out “risky” because, hey, you’ve still got most of your health (assuming you don’t get beat down a bunch before landing a knockdown) or you can start out “safe” because who knows what they’ll do. Just run some combination of walk up and: block, throw, meaty attack.

Or you can just swing over to the Ryu forum and learn whatever your safe jump is, but I’d advise you to spend some time figuring things out before doing that, because the experience will be valuable, and you probably won’t be able to use your safejump setup every knockdown anyway.


#9

[quote=“BlackShinobi, post:6, topic:160055”]

@blackshinobi thank you for your time and input, i appreciate your effort to helping me. most of what you said really does make sense to me.

how do i train against my habits? or change them? how do even know what they are reading that tells them to jump again? i am very careful with my fireball spacing and with my timing. i do not throw fireballs recklessly…

@Sleazoid, thank you for pointing out so many different other things im overlooking. i will going into training mode and practice more options.

@airk, should i even take online seriously? at what point does it cause me to create bad habits? how do i know if I’m tournament ready? two weeks ago i was 2700 bp on pc, now im down to 2000. i cant figure out whats going on… why do i win often against people with higher points than me than lower? i do notice the people with higher points tend to be more careful on wakeup.


#10

You take online seriously until and unless you decide not to take online seriously. This will directly relate to the amount of offline competition you get. Meaning, if you can find offline matches whenever the heck you want, there’s no reason for you to take online seriously, but if you live in the sticks and have no offline competition without a six hour drive, you’re going to be taking online seriously for a VERY long time.

Frankly though, my personal opinion is that you should always take online seriously if you want to play seriously. This isn’t saying you should never go online and just screw around, but if you want to learn how to play seriously, the best way is to take all your matches seriously.

Disclaimer: Never, EVER take your BP seriously.

Online doesn’t create any bad habits that you can’t avoid by thinking about what you’re doing a little bit. The only way online really changes the environment is A) Some combos become harder to land and B) Some setups/moves become harder to block. As long as you compensate for A by practicing “offline combos” and for B by understanding that just because no one ever blocks some setup online doesn’t mean that no one will ever block it period, then there’s no danger to speak of.

You are tournament ready when you show up at a tournament, not a minute before or after. Remember. 25% of the people at any given tournament are out after two rounds. EVERY TIME. There is no shame in that.

If you are meeting with better success against relatively higher “ranked” people, the odds are that you are giving bad players too much credit. Lower level players are more likely to something (often something very unsafe) on wakeup and as a result will often beat players who expect their opponent to “play smart/safe” and not do risky things like wakeup ultra. When you start being able to notice “This guy is playing like a scrub, I bet he’s going to DP on wakeup” and then he does, you’ll be blowing those people up. When you are treating everyone the same and thinking “No one who is behind by that much life would do a wakeup DP!” and getting hit by it over and over, you are giving people too much credit for making “smart” decisions.


#11

Here is a video that shows Daigo’s footsies at their best -(From 30 seconds) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76uIZvw4igY

Even though people already helped very well I’ll say something aswell.

The ‘right distance’ is different for each character. For example , if you play Vs an Adon you’ll need to stay out of range from his main poke , his standing roundhouse , and be ready to use your Sweep or whatever move you want to punish it with. When reading the opponent you need to find all of their bad habits out in the first round , such as mash throw tech / shoryuken. Then in later rounds you must punsih these ( throw tech with a DP , DP by blocking or something like that ) , which means you are able to abuse throwing or jumping , as the opponent will think twice about mashing out their DP/Throw. There’s no correct way to play any character , for example , Dhalsim is best at zoning , however this doesn’t mean that you can’t do a rushown Dhalsim , it’s just more playing to their strengths. I guess see how top players play your character and then have a playstyle similair to that , however play what comes naturally and that is best for YOUR own strengths. I’m no good with that sort of frame data… I think it does.

You don’t know when the opponent is throwing , so mostly you’ll be teching before, predicting the throw, unless you can react to throws…

To deal with wake up DP’s learn safe jumps. Then punish them with your most damaging combo or something that puts them into the same spot over again. Then when they’ve learnt “dont mash DP” you can safely start doing mixups and resets without real fear of being DP’d. Try to lay down these thought in the opponents head in round 1 , because then even if you lose round one you’re in the opponents head , which makes games that bit easier. Applying pressure can just be constant safe jumps with safe block strings then see how they react to this pressure, there’s probably a tutorial on here somewhere.

If you have any more questions…?


#12

thank you again @airk. i deeply appreciate your input. it has help me alot already.

@ghostfacekiller, first i would like to thank you for your effort and time. i have another question, earlier you mention about whiff punishing adon’s standing roundhouse, how do i actually time to punish it? it goes by so fast? before i even think about pressing a button, the limb is on his way back. same thing with ryu’s c.mk. it states that its 12 frames of recovery and when i practice in training mode every time i attempt to sweep (its a fast sweep too), it gets block (and im standing at a distance where the c.mk just barely whiff).


#13

[quote=“FoxhoundXIII, post:9, topic:160055”]

Think of it like this, imagine a game like rock paper scissors. Is rock the right choice or is scissors; the answer depends entirely on what your opponent is thinking. Even if you are playing someone who is consistently thinks one step ahead of you you can beat them by thinking one step ahead of what would beat your natural choice.

Train to have options instead of habits. What you do shouldn’t be the thing you want to do, because you want to do it, it should be the thing that beats what you think your opponent will do. You have to be fluid. Your opponent will jump and sometimes they will stop after being anti aired twice, sometimes after one, sometimes after 5, but having a set number that you think an opponent will stop after that isn’t based on their individual habits is a bad practice.

As someone already mentioned sometimes just give a new opponent a wake up against nothing to see what their starting move will be. Just walk up to them and them block and see what they do.
Do they try a reversal?
Did they go fro a throw?
Did they back dash?
Was the move they used punishable?

When they aren’t on the ground gauge how smart they are and what their play style is. Are they aggressive, are they cautious. Are they using moves at the correct range. All of these things help you determine what they are more likely to do the next time that you knock them down.

The way that I figured out a lot of my bad habits was to watch recordings of myself play. When you see one of your matches when you aren’t preoccupied with execution and all of the constant factors of the match you will start seeing repetition that you don’t notice in the moment.


#14

hummm i guess i over think alot of things and give the less tactical players too much credit. i guess, myself, have a lot patience to develop. thank you everyone for helping me! it truly helped a lot.


#15

Well for moves like that which are very fast you need to know the range of it perfectly. Then the only way to get a consistent punish is to pickup on the opponents habits , have lightning reactions or guess really. You can react by stepping just in the range of whichever poke you want to punish, then step out , this can make either make them poke or prepare to throw tech. Whatever their response you need to prepare to counter poke. Then once they’re bored of getting counter poked you can simply walk up throw :slight_smile:

Hope this answered your question!