Footsies+pressure: Post hunting hawk

ogre

#1

Hey all, so I’ve been playing ogre pretty much nonstop since launch. And after playing 3 other ogre’s online, I’m sick of hunting hawk and don’t think its that great (although its a fantastic noob destroyer).

It can be ducked, dodged, and abused, especially by faster smaller characters. But what else does ogre have for footsies? I was having a very difficult time trying to play intelligently (ie not spamming jump and hawk). His footsies post hawk seemed to be pretty mediocre before- :hk:/:hp: are super slow, and his c.:mk: isnt anything special.

Except standing jab.

After a lot of lab time, I’m having huge success with his :lp::lp::mp: + :lp::mp::mp: string. the 2x:lp: string is insanely fast and catches almost everyone, and the 2x:mp: ender can be cadc-ed into close range pressure. Once people are trained to react to the two, you can then start catching whiffs with hawk, owl hunt, or his command grab (I had a hard time landing this before). I can finally walk forward without having to spam hawk, something I was having a hard time with before.

Curious if you guys have as much success with this as I am having.

edit: :lp::mp::mp: can also be canceled into ex indigo punch for pretty big damage; a move I had no use for before.


#2

I was watching the option select stream yesterday and Flash metroid plays a really good ogre. I think it should be archived so that might be worth checking out for some footsie / blockstring and pressure tips.

i noticed to get in he was cancelling his c.mk into special dashing alot.

Here is the link to the stream video.

Flash starts playing around 51:00


#3

Remember that c:mk: doesn’t give frame advantage after cadc- once people start recognizing it, not as effective. (though still strong)


#4

ahh yea true. but i guess if you mix it up and just canceling into qcf+lp that leaves you at a frame advantage yea?


#5

Is crouch hk 2 hits cadc forward + frames?

I NEVER use hunting hawk outside of Combos… unsafe stuff.


#6

I’ve been playing Ogre for about three days, and although it’s not a lot of time, I don’t see Ogre’s pressure as anything good, honestly. His two chained jabs are his strongest tool obviously, but that jab pressure doesn’t do much, since Ogre doesn’t have any overhead normals besides cr.hp (super slow) and one of the kicks in the infinite kick combo string. Owl Hunt hits overhead, but again, it’s easy to block on reaction.

You can basically just hold down back and survive Ogre’s pressure unless he is directly in your face, which adds throw as a mixup. Dash cancelling cr.mk may seem decent, but once people become aware that he’s unsafe after doing it (if the cr. mk was blocked), it probably won’t be used too much anymore. Ogre just doesn’t have any buttons or options that create any fear, so his pressure’s pretty weak.

His true strength is clearly in his defensive capabilities. If you get the life lead with Ogre and start playing lame, you can easily frustrate your opponent and then catch them with some of his tools (air to air MP, hunting hawk more likely to hit impatient standing opponents). His special moves also all allow great spacing manipulation with the emphasis on putting opponents far away from you.


#7

It’s unsafe on block, and yeah, hunting hawk is risky, but against people who are constantly standing or bigger characters, the second hit is relatively safe (only -3).


#8

Jumping medium punch is terrible. It has 2 active frames and loses cononstantly. Use lk air to air which is 5 active frames. Mk is ok too. And Ogres pressure game is easily his best attribute unless you have a life lead. His longrange game is asssss unless they’re forced to come to you. To make his rush as effective as it is you have to do everything…chain two lps on block first ALWAYS since its +7. If you hitconfirm do low kick chain into combo. After they block the jab chain go for jab mp mp chain sometimes since its -1 but looks very punishable. the third hit might frametrap them and you can combo into uofirward lk. If they block the third hit, do ancient power h. In the corner combo into low mk, owl hunt after ancient power. Once they stop pressing buttons after the 3rd hit in lp mp mp, press another jabjab chain or do stand lk. Other options after jabjab are low mk cancelled into owl hunt, cadc pressure or infinite kicks. Infinite kicks is amazing if they’re not expecting it. another option is close HP into special after the jabjab which fraketraps. Throws and such too obviously

I have an 80 percent win ratio with ogre on xbl and I do rushdown with him so it can’t be that bad haha


#9

[INDENT=1]His pressure game has holes. If the opponent blocks the string you just said (simply by holding down back), the pressure is over since ogre is now out of range to do anything. “Looks very punishable” and “might frame trap” are things that won’t work forever. Infinite kick combo isn’t hard to block and has a sound/visual cue.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1] [/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]I just think Ogre is a defensive character. Can’t really jump against him, can’t throw slow-recovering fireballs (especially when he has meter for ex owl hunt), and moves like Indigo Punch blasting opponents full screen away lead me to believe he’s defensive by design.[/INDENT]


#10

??? You’re in perfect range to jabjab again after they block the third hit of lpmpmp. If they try to press something youl probably trade. But youl still have the upperhand and can continue to walkforward jab and short pressure Or…bqckdash, do owl hunt to counter hit them, or ex grab to absorb their jab/short. The only bad that can come out of doing lp mp mp is if they counterhit the second mp inbetween the two mps. Which is why you have to mix it up and sometimes end it after the first mp.
Indigo punch is designed to push the opponent to the corner because his corner pressure and damage are incredible

Defensive characters have…good normals from defensive ranges/abtiair normals/fireballs/…something
He’s potentially a runaway character after you have a significant lifelead though


#11

Oo apparently jwong learned ogre and will be using him. You will all soon see the power of Ogres mixup :slight_smile:


#12

I think he’s defensive as well.
HP ancient power on all jumps, and HK Hawk to escape corner is amazing.

He lacks a bit in the footsie part for sure, but if you want to play footises, you should be using another char probably.


#13

I use him very defensively as well, using pokes like st.mp and st.hp to hinder forward movement. AAs is pretty obvious at this point. Although his charge dash cancel is super unsafe, it’s not something you should stray away from as it does catch people off guard, especially if you train someone to block. Up close he’s not that bad as you guys make him sound. Jab-jab is an awesome pressure tool. It’s fast and it leaves you at frame advantage. Cr.mk if you see them standing and charge dash cancel foward/back. Also works as a frame trap (4-frame gap) after a blocked jab-jab. Learn the push back of your normals or just spacing so you know when QCB+P will connect as a command grab (this is kinda getting overlooked but it’s also very situational anyways).

Ogre is actually a pretty simple character. The problem I’m having is having team synergy, as he just hogs all the juggle points.


#14

But tagging resets the juggle.

I’m using Ogre as point and Hugo as Anchos.

Right now i’m comboing whatever (cr.LK, or s.HP xx Owl’s Hunt, etc…) into 2 hits Hunting Hawk, s.HK dash cancel, s.HK xx HP Ancient Power, tags Hugo in c.LP xx Palm, s.LK xx Backbreaker (medium backbreaker in middle screen, weak one in the corner)
Awesome damage for only 1 bar.


#15

Oh. Well, iunno how team synergy is supposed to work. I guess what I’m basically trying to say is he doesn’t have any “cool” tag in combos with other characters. =p

I don’t like how popular Hugo is so I’m going to stray away from him for now.


#16

Dash canceling combos in juggles are pretty cool for me, no to mention the damage that it does :stuck_out_tongue:


#17

I’ve tested a few characters with Ogre and I’ve found his potential to be insane. AA h.ancients power tag into Ryu for c.hp xx shoryu or c.mpx2 xx tatsu for corner push, Bison s.mp s.hp xx hp.psycho crusher, Hugo/King/Marduk need no explanation. Literally every single one of his special moves other than qcb+p tag cancels into biiiiig damage with any character. Get a hunting hawk into normal of your choice xx owls hunt tag cancel is a 400+ damage combo for 1 bar. If you’re looking for team synergy with Ogre just go to the character select screen and press random, you really can’t go wrong.

edit: oh and don’t forget meaty blazing kick tag cancel into either block to punish their punish or combo X that shit works wonders.


#18

This! LP LP is +9 on hit and +7 on block. That alone is ridiculous!

Once people learn Infinite Kicks (2nd hit is an overhead, 3rd is a low), it becomes a GOOD thing for Ogre. When up close, the biggest problem is making people stand up so that his command grab connects. You can then create a mixup of F+HK,HK or F+HK~commandgrab. If you do the latter, they stand to block the overhead hit and you get the command grab. If they gamble and stay ducking, you finish the kicks. It’s a nice little mixup I’ve been running.


#19

The LP, MP, MP combo string is not safe. The last MP may be -1 on block, but the two MP do not combo, and the second MP has 11 frames startup. I’ve played Ogre all out offensive since I’ve started on him, and I’ve gotta say, it has not been successful. I really love his easy 400+combos and juggle opportunities, but so far, he is completely free compared to my anchor Hugo(I’ve almost resorted to making Hugo my lead).


#20

Everyone knows l m m can be punished between mediums and doesn’t combo. That’s the entire point of using it in mixups