Frame data - Jump up HK - what does the "-" mean


#1

What does the “-” dash mean for Jump on HK in the frame data wiki …

I noticed all the characters have a “-” when I look for frame advantage on hit or block…
for jumping moves.

Reading the wiki one of dudleys combo’s is:
Jumping HK > Standing HK > Machinegun Blow

How do i break this down by frames when I don’t know the hit advantage of Jumping HK?

thank you!


#2

Good question. The reason there is a “-” under the jumping abilities frame data and a number under the st/cr ones is simple: You cannot block or continue a string of attacks in the air. Frame data applies to all moves in the game, but since there is no way you can block a move in the air, there is no point in having a figure that represents how quickly you recover after you hit somebody.

Think about it like this: When you attack somebody on the ground, if you hit them, you have recovery frames for who has frame advantage. The same applies to blocking. This determines how quickly you are able to execute your next move before your opponent can. However, in the air, there’s only 2 things that can happen:

  1. 1 move beats another or
  2. both moves trade

You cannot execute another move in the air after you do one (unless you jump again), so it does not make sense to have frame advantage/disadvantage on jumping moves. You can’t block in the air, so there is no advantage/disadvantage.

So in short, you do not need to know the advantage that jumping HK has on hit because, if it hits, it resets the other opponent until you both land. Both players are completely even on frames upon landing.


#3

thanks for the awesome reply Poptags08.
In your finally statement you said:
**So in short, you do not need to know the advantage that jumping HK has on hit because, if it hits, it resets the other opponent until you both land. Both players are completely even on frames upon landing. **

Does this mean any combo you start off with a jump attack can never be guaranteed to continue if it hits? Since you never have a frame advantage when you go back to neutral state of just standing? thanks


#4

Ignore the nonsense above. The reason is because the advantage you get off a jumping attack is dependent on how late in the jump you did the attack. You have to land to be able to follow up on the jumpin, so the closer you are to landing when the attack hits the more advantage you will have. For example take Ryu’s jumping roundhouse. If you press it as soon as you start jumping the opponent will recover before you land and be able to hit you, but if you press it as late as possible in the jump you can combo pretty much anything you want.


#5

ahh this makes sense, I was wondering why people would want to combo starting with jumping in if you only establish a neutral state. The farther you are into the jump when you attack causes differing frame advantages… so they put the dash for the unknown…

thanks!


#6

the issue is that poptags thought you were referring to an air-air exchange.


#7

I thought he was talking about if both players jump. My bad.

:confused:


#8

The frame data still tells you how much hit stun/block stun the move does, it just doesn’t say the straight advantage because all jumping moves’ animations continue until you land so the frame advantage can’t be determined unless you know where in the jump arc you’re hitting them at.


#9

ahh well you indirectly answered one of my followup questions. thanks!