Frame Data Questions

I could probably figure this out for myself but I’m hoping someone more knowledgable can tell me right away: How exactly do counterhits work in Street Fighter 4? I know that its supposed to be when you interrupt your opponent’s move on their start up. But what does this look like in terms of frame data. How many frames do you have to get this counterhit. Also how could you use frame data to figure out frame traps to fish for counterhits.

Also, as far as I know moves listed in the SF4 wiki show frame adv (+/-) on block and on hit but not on whiff. why is that?

on whiff you don’t get frame advantage, you’re just stuck in recovery.

counterhits happen when you hit someone during their startup, active, or recovery frames in a move. As a general rule, they add damage, stun, and a couple frames hitstun. for example, seth cannot link two’s together on a normal hit. however, if the first hits as a counter hit, he can >>

I don’t know for sure about SF4, but hitting someone in recovery frames is usually not the same as a normal counterhit.

Pretty sure that you can only counter-hit during an attack’s start-up/active frames.

well, if your active frames start while they are in startup frames then it counts as a counter-hit. So I’ll use ken as an example. Say I just ended a mk.tatsu. Thats +0 frame advantage, so if I hit c.lp as soon as possible and my opponent does say a thats 5 frames, I’ll get a counter-hit.
A frame trap is basically where you give your opponent a chance to attack, and then stuff his move with your own. If I spam c.lp in a block string, my opponent has no chance to attack back because he will always be in block stun. If I use a in my block string, my opponent will come out of block stun and have a chance to attack back, but if he throws out anything it will get stuffed (or trade at best) unless it has invuln frames and whatnot. This is because c.lp on block = +2 advantage, = 5 frame startup, so theres essentially 3 frames my opponent has to attack back, and theres not much that any character has that will fit in that window.

Oh, and a whiff is a whiff, you just count all the frames together and thats essentially your frame disadvantage I guess.

You don’t get a counterhit for hitting someone during their active or recovery frames. You have to catch them in the start-up frames of an attack.

@OP: It’s usually impossible to score counter-hits against most attacks on reaction, if that’s what you were thinking. For example, if both you and your opponent have a 3 frame jab, you’d need to press your jab button one or two frames before he presses his in order to counter-hit his jab. You obviously can’t do this on reaction unless you’re psychic. :stuck_out_tongue:

You can however, “fish” for a counterhit by using frame-trapped block strings, or by predicting or baiting out your opponent’s poke and using an appropriate counterpoke.

Counter hit rewards you with +3 extra frames of hit stun and +25% damage.

when a move whiffs how can you determine its recovery? like I know even jumping off the ground or landing has start up/recovery but I don’t know where to find these figures. also, when fishing for a counterhit how could you use frame data to construct a “frame trap” could some smart person provide an example? thanks for all the replies everyone.

the recovery for a whiff is in the recovery frame data. the data for the ‘on block’ and ‘on hit’ is just them doing the math for you so you won’t have to do the math yourself. block stun-(recovery+active frames left)=block stun dis/advantage. jump frames are on eventhubs. don’t know why it’s not on shoryuken.

example of a frame trap. i don’t use fei long often, but i’ll use him as an example. so fei long’s cl. lp>EX kaiten (command throw).

cl. lp has a block stun of 10. it’s also able to cancel into a special. EX kaiten has a start-up of 12 frames. pretty much a two frame difference. remember you’re looking at the block stun and not block advantage cause you’re cancelling the cl. lp. you’re not waiting for the full animation. there’s not a lot of moves that comes out in 2 frames in SF. only gief’s SPD, his super/ultra, and a couple of others supers comes out in 2 frames or less. so if you cancel cl. lp>EX kaiten your opponent will recovery, but be in a 2 frame disadvantage. so if they do anything that isn’t a jump or don’t have i-frames then fei long’s EX kaiten will be able to grab them.

another example is sagat’s tiger knee frame trap. it’s harder to explain cause you’re hitting at a later frame when you’re doing his tiger knee. but basically sagat is at a + advantage after his tiger knee assuming he did it at the right distance cause he’s hitting you at a later frame. remember that the frame dis/advantage is assuming that you’re hitting on the first active frame. so if you throw anything after blocking his tiger knee he’ll hit you w/ his cr. lp unless it had i frames. repeat that and you get his frame trap loop.

also i don’t main sagat, but it was just an example. i don’t know who is more susceptible to his frame trap loop cause you also have to remember that everyone has different hit boxes so some characters might able to get out easier than others. you’ll have to figure that out yourself or ask people here if you main sagat. but in general hope you got the idea.