Front Street Ave.Donate money for your buttons, Pei "Milkshark" Kao. WHY!? Pause with the begging


#1

link here http://iplaywinner.com/news/2012/7/23/a-look-at-the-independent-arcade-button-the-hbfs-30.html , and at the bottom for those who want to read my ramblings.

I havent made a thread in a minute but wtf is up with the begging the past few years. I mean its one thing to ask for donations on your stream, and we just had a topic for that. It’s one thing to ask for donations, or someone ask for you for donations to help you out being a gamer temporarily or permanently out on your luck, but its one thing to be like, im going out on a business venture, please donate money to me to make this product, and if it succeeds, great, you get no share of the profits at all, but here are some extra buttons that my product boast that you wouldnt fucking need in the first place really. LOL. if im donating almost 5 percent (his max reward for donations is 350) and your product takes off and starts making dough, i dont want your fucking buttons and switches, i want 5 percent of what you made.

it says they don’t reach their goal they will refund your money. um, how long has this charity case been going on, and if its just as recent as it seems, i dont trust you to give back shit. someone can correct me if im wrong, but you gave yourself, an unknown person lacking in credibility a month to raise 8 thousand dollars to make some buttons or a complete refund to the contributers. either you are a complete moron, or you are about to steal a few grand and disappear.

im not putting iplaywinner on blast, just the dude, and until someone can tell me this is legit, and this guy is trustworthy, it seems like a fancy scam, but even if its not, what the fuck is with all the begging. get a job, save up, collab with friends, save up, get a loan, ect… like, i havent seen everything on srk since i joined in 04 and lurked in 03, but ive never seen so much begging post sf4 era, and especially post, oh i can stream too, era.

they say dont hate the playa, hate the game, and i dig, but maybe im an old hater, so not really. so many noobs young and old are being duped into giving their money to worthless causes in the community. there are only like a few streamers who i could say thats legit to donate too. the majority are just asking for shit that they could just record and put on youtube, or NOT EVEN STREAM AT ALL AND IT WOULDNT MATTER, but im slightly off topic.

pei kao’s donation seems shady, and if its not shady, its fucking dumb if he just started that and is closing it in a month. i dont know, maybe im in a bad mood and it just struck me wrong. lol

i almost semi blame the nice nice shit that was enforced on srk during sf4 vanilla, so even myself got into a be cool stage of help a motherfucker out, this is the community, we’re not sour grapes all the time, have a coke in a smile, but look what its turned into. its a fiasco, almost a joke to me how much worth people have for doing little to nothing that ANYONE could do, nobodies becoming somebodies, kinda somebodies becoming stars. lol. its hilarious. i wouldnt say im envious at all, im jut kinda in shock still like wait, are we letting this rock, or am i just trippin and hating.


#2

Well if he doesn’t actually get the money in time the service will refund everybody. If he gets the money and the business fails, such is life. No one has been forced to part with their cash and people are doing so because they want to.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


#3

well thats one of my gripes, is who is this guy, and why should i trust him to refund anyones cash. hell, outside of what he said on his website, does that still legally bind him to refund people who donated, and how long does he have to refund them. could he raise 3 grand and sit on it for a year or 2 taking his time to refund you, or will you get it back ASAP, and refunds will go into action post august 31st.

yeah, no one is being forced, as with all donations. im mostly speaking on the behavior of pei even asking for donations like this, and us as a community having this begging be now a normal thing outside of actual good situations, projects, and people to donate to. i bet cross counter got more donations then ggpo ever did, and what did you get out of that, content funny for 13 year olds, but i digress, i dont wanna go too far off topic, although its part of the topic really because ggpo is worthwhile to donate to, while wanna be hood 5 foot asians saying nigga all the time, new button makers and corny host whose humour level is equivalent to dora the explorer are the ones actually getting that noob dough, AND NO ONE IS REALLY DISCUSSING IT. its a fucking problem imo


#4

EDIT: I was far too nice the first time around.

You just posted a five-paragraph tirade where all you actually stated was the fact that you don’t know how Indiegogo works.

All money put into a kickstarter or indiegogo fund goes into an escrow. This means that this Pei Kao dude doesn’t actually see a cent unless he raises his necessary funds. Indiegogo holds onto the money themselves until the specified date, upon which they will either refund everyone (if he didn’t raise $8,000) or give the money to him (if he did).


#5

word, well good shit then. so with that taken care of, i guess its just a discussion of why the fuck all the begging if at least now i know that this person wont get shit if he doesnt meet the goal set. i still think its bad behaviour within the community, and mostly from grown ass mid twenty and up adults. eh


#6

I personally don’t see a problem with this because there seems to be a gap in the market. I can see your problem with no shares but you are effectively buying this product in (and only in) bulk. No orders will be sent out until a threshold has been met.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


#7

Considering he has a working prototype means he already put quite a bit into research.

I don’t know if you are aware, but Indiegogo is a kickstarter like site, and as with most, the money is not in the hands of the project owner until the time expires. Indiegogo will automatically refund all contributors if the necessary funding is not raised. This isn’t opt-in, they do it automatically on all projects:

[details=Spoiler]
For Contributors

Fixed Funding campaigns

Contributions made to any fixed funding campaign will be refunded in full if the campaign has not met its funding goal by its deadline. Contributors will receive these refunds in their PayPal account within 5 days after the campaign’s end.[/details]

Based upon what I have read, the service withholds the money and if enough funding is raised it is then transferred to the project itself, as per their terms of service:

[details=Spoiler]4. All Contributions made to a Project will be directed to the Project Entity’s Funding Account, less a 9% marketplace processing fee retained by Indiegogo. All Contributions paid to a Project Entity will constitute “Project Funding,” and the Indiegogo fee and all other Project Funding requirements will apply. Indiegogo is not responsible for any error or omission in the Funding Account information you provide. Unless automated by the Processor, Project Funding less 3rd party processing fees will be disbursed from the Funding Account to the Project Entity’s bank account according to the Project’s disbursement details (set in the Funding section of the Project Profile). All necessary fund transfers will be initiated within 5 business days of the campaign end date. It can then take up to 5 business days for the disbursed funds to arrive in your account.
5. When you reach your Campaign Deadline, your Funding Request will automatically close and no more Contributions will be accepted for your Project. You may make a new Funding Request any time after the end of your last Funding Request closes. If you reach your Campaign Goal by your Campaign Deadline, Indiegogo will pay you a 5% rebate on all funds raised during the campaign. Payments will be included in a funds transfer that will be initiated within 5 business days of the campaign end date. It can then take up to 5 business days for the disbursed funds to arrive in your account.[/details]

Another section of their terms of service strictly explains that you may give any non-monetary as a perk, so they cannot give percentages of profit either.

[details=Spoiler]7. You may offer non-monetary rewards for Contributions (“Perks”), provided that the offering of such Perks is lawful under all applicable laws, including without limitation state and federal securities laws, and otherwise complies with the terms and conditions of this Agreement.
Any Project Funding payments may be subject to verification of the identity of you and the Project Entity, the use of funds, and the timeline of the project. The verification procedure may involve an interview and/or document review if deemed necessary and may vary from time to time in our sole discretion. You and the Project Entity agree that Project Funding may only be used on behalf of the Project, and that Project Funding will not be used for any other purpose. You agree that if at any time during while a Funding Request is open or within thirty (30) days of the close of a Funding Request, Indiegogo makes a good faith determination that the identity of you or the Project Entity or the timeline of the Project are not as identified in the Project Posting, or that the Project Funding has not been used solely on behalf of the Project, you will promptly refund the entire amount of Project Funding from such Funding Request to the Contributors. We may change the Fundraising Rules at any time upon notice to you. If you do not accept a change we make to the Fundraising Rules, your sole remedy shall be to terminate your Project Posting. [/details]

As for donating, you are not entitled to any portion of their company under their terms as well, so they cannot, nor would they give away 5% of the company. While they don’t normally do refunds after a project has been successfully funded, they can, as described under the donor portion of their TOS. (main points bolded for importance, this section is long)

[details=Spoiler]ndiegogo may provide you the opportunity to make Contributions to Project Postings on the Service. You may contribute to any Project with an open Funding Request in any amount you choose. You may contribute to as many Projects as you like.

It is solely your choice to contribute to a Project. You understand that making a Contribution to a Project does not give you any rights in or to that Project, including without limitation any ownership, control, or distribution rights, and that the Project Entity shall be free to solicit other funding for the Project, enter into contracts for the Project, allocate rights in or to the Project, and otherwise direct the Project in its sole discretion. You further understand that nothing in this Agreement or otherwise limits Indiegogo’s right to enter into agreements or business relationships relating to Projects. Indiegogo does not guarantee that any Project’s Campaign Goal will be met. Any Perks offered to you are between you and the Project Entity only, and Indiegogo does not guarantee that Perks will be delivered or satisfactory to you. Indiegogo does not warrant the use of any Project Funding or the outcome of any Project.

Contributions to Projects are nonrefundable. Under certain circumstances Indiegogo may, but is under no obligation to, seek the refund of Project Funding if the Project Entity misrepresents the Project or misuses the funds. You acknowledge and agree that all your Contributions are between you, the Project Entity, and the Processor only, and that Indiegogo is not responsible for Contribution transactions, including without limitation any personal or payment information you provide to the Processor.

Indiegogo makes no representations regarding the deductibility of any Contribution for tax purposes. Please consult your tax advisor for more information.[/details]

So, they can’t prove they will help you, but they can’t exactly police everything if the funds had already been spent. Either way, you volunteer to donate money, so it’s still how much you trust them. But, it’s difficult to go through the process and come up with prototypes to present to your donors that it doesn’t seem likely to be a scam.

Citations:


http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms

TLDR: They don’t get the money at all if the goal isn’t reached and it is refunded to you. If the funds are misused Indiegogo will attempt to refund the donors. So, you are pretty safe with this. It’s up to you to trust somebody, anybody can get cheated in the trading outlet, but we use it anyway and very rarely do any issues arise.


#8

i guess i have a problem with the mindset in general within the community, as many others do new and old, and the fact that it just didnt even have like a proper i guess you could say business model. i know some would say, well who gives a fuck, most of those donations are probably ten and twenty bucks, easily not missed and will be refunded if he doesnt meet his goal, but it seems like more then i thought would actually happen, some people will donate a couple hundred, even a few, and didnt one person in a middle eastern country donate like 1500 to cross counter when they were asking for donations a while back and reach 6 grand in like 24 hours. so there are people with disposable outcome ready to give it up fo sho, and if someone were to give a grand to this dude, there is nothing in place to be like hey, youve donated at least 500, you can now be a partner and this is how that works, ect…

its just like give me money, if i make a grand, i’ll give those who donated over ten bucks stuff, most likely asap, and sorry if im backed up for months. oh, and for those that gave me more then 350, thanks, heres your stuff, and i’ll gladly take in all the profits for myself. regardless if hes the only one doing the work possibly right now, i just dont like it because it does nothing for the community. it would be another thing if it was like donate for perks, but also to be a part of something bigger and make some dough. fuckin teenagers trying to make some extra cash off of the noobs and not trying to share actual profits, just tinker toys.

i dont wanna big up his button game too much as if it will be something netting him like a hundred grand a year, but i would still feel more comfortable if those donations came with something greater past a certain amount besides buttons and switches now that i know it will be refunded if he doesnt meet 8 grand, but what if he does, and what if his idea is great and it does blow up. niggas donate a few hundred and get nothing, a grand and get nothing but buttons, no cut. i woulda liked a more “grown” approach from this dude with his begging.


#9

He even says on the indiegogo page that the donations are preorders. And he is giving good prices at that since keyswitches are $1.00-$1.50 on Mouser.com (http://www.mouser.com/catalogviewer.aspx?page=1785&highlight=540-MX1A-E1NN&catalogculture=en-US&catalog=645) and the button shells are likely going to be made in a factory which has a large upfront cost, hence the $8000 start limit. When looking at that the $50 deal has a cost of at least $32 + the cost of 12 shells. His profit margin is probably small if there and he is doing a favor for the fighting game community to even offer this pre-manufactured and standardized. The only thing I’ve seen here is you raging about him even offering this to us. If you don’t like what he is doing, don’t donate. Just don’t expect everyone else to be as pissed off about his work as you are.


#10

According to the TOS of Indiegogo, they are not allowed to give you any profit margins or percentage of the company. This isn’t an investment, it’s a donation with a few perks. I’m sure he’d be open to investors, and he probably did go to banks and they turned him down.

If you were a bank, would you give $8000 to somebody doing something as petty as making quieter buttons? The fighting game community is pretty large, but it’s still pretty niche, I’m sure people rush out to buy them after they see an ad on TV. Only dedicated players will buy these, at least people that have already decided to give up pad, and face it, a small minority of gamers have arcade controllers anyway, so you are looking to target a minority of a minority, and that’s hard to sell to an investor or a bank.


#11

The whole point of Kickstarter and Indiegogo is so “the little guy” can try and find investment for his idea–which includes estimated cost of research, but moreso cost of manufacture–without having to try and sell his idea to some megacorp who will either try and go all “too many cooks” on one dude’s idea, or will reject buying it from him, then just copy/steal it.

It’s how Double Fine got the Double Fine Adventure project off the ground. If you go to any publisher today and say “I want to make a point-and-click adventure!” you will get laughed out of the building due to no faith in that game genre. So Double Fine just went and said, “Well, hey, what if we don’t need a publisher? We could just raise the R&D cost ourselves off of kickstarter!” More than 5 million dollars later, Double Fine was making an adventure game.

On some level you’re saying you want credit for Pei Kao’s idea because you gave him $20 to help fund his factory order. Personally I find this sickening, since Pei Kao was the one who did all the actual hard work, engineering, and design. Admittedly I am a little jealous since I’ve had this idea cooking for quite awhile (arcade buttons with Cherry switches), but never acted on it. That does not mean I should feel entitled to any of his idea, however.


#12

Hi jimmy:

Your concerns are correct.
Because I had the same idea in the past.
But I changed my mind until I received some great creative goods(Xstylus), I am excited.
The dreamer finally got the chance to realize their dreams.

Maybe I am not good enough for all to trust me.
I can understand.
I have to work harder to provide new information.

A small number of prototypes are trying to produce.
I will provide prototypes to some players have some review & testing.
I hope this can help more players recognize HBFS-30.

If the Contributor really worried about the whereabouts of the money, please contact us.
I will as soon as possible refunds money to you.